Scam Casino Should I chargeback at Red Lion Casino?

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Surfer

Newbie member
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Location
Scotland
Hi Guys, I am new here and have been rather a silly boy and opened an account with what I believe to be a scam casino called 'the red lion casino' which claim to be licenced in Curacao but when I email the e-gambing commision in Curacao they have never heard of this casino. They seem to offer all the games and services (netbet) that are not to be offered in the UK. they dont seem to show their licence number presumably because they don't have one.

I opened it because I am on gamblock and I am self excluded myself from UK bookmakers as I am a problem gambler but that is a different story. I deposited many times to the tune of 2000 over 2 credit cards and they show as a dodgy transaction company in Moscow on my statement. I played and won some money which I wanted to withdraw (1500) and I went to make a withdrawal and I was told by their customer services £500 was the maximum and only withdrawal at a time dispite their own 'terms and conditions' saying that 10k was the maximum monthly withdawal limit. they just see to make up the rules to suit them. this took days and days of emailing them to withdraw it so I could get my money back and I kept getting told it will be done ASAP. and being the problem gambler I am kept playing heavily and lost it all. One of the deposits I made was for £300 and I when I logged onto my online banking they took another £300 without adding it to the bettings account, I asked them to cancel it and put it back into my credit card account they said they couldnt and that they have credited my bettings account and I have to wager it atleast once to then withdraw it and of course I lost that too.

I am fully aware how stupid this all is but having read some things on here I may be eligle to chargeback those transactions on the grounds that they don't have a uk licence and they offer all the rigged netbet games they shouldn't in the UK.

I have raised a chargeback on all these transactions and received them back into my 2 credit card accounts and raised the dispute with all the information and emails from the curacao commission etc, my question is what are the chances of a successful chargeback on these grounds? they have reversed the transactions but what are the chances of them just readding them once theyve spoken to the merchant and they say i'm bang to rights. Like I say I am very aware I have been stupid and I should write the money off to experience but if I can get the money back and the games I was playing were rigged then it is unfair.

Please be kind :)
 
Solution
Easiest way to dispute the transactions if Credit Card company gets funny is to point out we are not allowed to use Credit Cards for gambling in UK so transactions should not be allowed.

Anyway since noone else has mentioned it do you really think it is a good idea to have Credit Cards with that sort of limit if you cannot control your spending. You did the correct thing by registering for Gamblock. But then went looking for dodgy casinos to play at using your Credit cards.

So what would you have done if the Casino had paid the winnings no Problem. Kept going back till you had maxed out all Credit Cards got yourself deeper in debt and then tried to charge back anyway.

Think now you have managed the Chargeback you should be thinking...

Chargebackfraud

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Thanks for the reply

I had informed them this transaction wasnt classed as gambling. They are aware it has been laundered becouse i said that the transaction isn't related to gambling it shows as retail. The credit card company still refer to it as visiting a gambling site even though they are a scam. This was the intention.

Sounds like you are from a different country to the uk. The stance is the same from other mastercard uk customers.

The only other route now is with the ombudsman

Ombudsman, fella.

I'm from the UK.

Basically, the reason MasterCard won't interact with gambling is because they HAVE to be licensed and use MCC7995. That means the merchant/ukgc will sort/investigate.

If it's miscoded, these rules don't apply but they are in breach of MasterCard's terms and conditions.

Visa go as far as to say they will fine miscoding £25,000 per transaction!!

You have to ask your bank to raise the miscoding, otherwise they will throw it out and tell you to sort with merchant/governing body.
 

Andy1977

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 22, 2021
Are you saying your chargebacks have been raised against the merchants now that you have mentioned the miscoding.

I have repeatedly said to them to check the transaction code and they will see it isnt gambling and that it is money laundering.

I see no one else online being ruled in favour of the miscoding. Can you advise how you come to this conclusion and how the bank has changed it stance on your claim?

Fair play to you for your tenacity. I know with 3 of my visa creditors who refunded me it has been a tough battle. but fluid and cap 1 are not budging and claim that regardless of them disguising there transactions as other types they are not willing to raise.

This has also taken it out of the 45 days.

ps all the balls have paid compensation to me in some form to do with the terrible way they handle my complaint.

I look forward to hearing from you!
 

Chargebackfraud

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Morning Andy,

Revolut refused to raise because it was gambling and said I had no other option. Basically did their best to stop it.

I then realised I had an active bet block function (Revolut have this feature) and forced them to tell me the MCC. It took ages to get this info. I threatened legal action if they didn't disclose. They then told me the MCC and they were all miscoded. This was all well within the 45 day limit.

I raised a formal complaint on several grounds. No license, selling to UK players, miscoding, multiple jurisdictions they do not own and fraud/theft (of my withdrawals).

Revolut have told me I have no grounds to dispute the actual transaction because I got the chips I wanted. They have only raised with MasterCard/Merchant based on miscoding and I could price every transaction. They made me write down every deposit with the time, name and amount and match it to my bank transactions. Almost nothing matches but I have enough of a trend based on same time and approx amount.

I have no idea if I'll get my money back but if I don't, I think Revolut and MasterCard are on very dodgy ground, given the evidence I have. Just look at Wirecard and MasterCard. It's about corruption within the aquiring bank. This is crime, simple as. Too many poorly people back down, feeling ashamed of their gambling illness. Problem gambler is a horrible term.

Life goes on, regardless. A return of the money would be nice now I feel better. I'm in an odd position of having also lost significant withdrawals. Don't really fancy a court case with MasterCard but I will.
 

Chargebackfraud

Newbie member
Joined
Nov 21, 2021
Morning Andy,

Revolut refused to raise because it was gambling and said I had no other option. Basically did their best to stop it.

I then realised I had an active bet block function (Revolut have this feature) and forced them to tell me the MCC. It took ages to get this info. I threatened legal action if they didn't disclose. They then told me the MCC and they were all miscoded. This was all well within the 45 day limit.

I raised a formal complaint on several grounds. No license, selling to UK players, miscoding, multiple jurisdictions they do not own and fraud/theft (of my withdrawals).

Revolut have told me I have no grounds to dispute the actual transaction because I got the chips I wanted. They have only raised with MasterCard/Merchant based on miscoding and I could price every transaction. They made me write down every deposit with the time, name and amount and match it to my bank transactions. Almost nothing matches but I have enough of a trend based on same time and approx amount.

I have no idea if I'll get my money back but if I don't, I think Revolut and MasterCard are on very dodgy ground, given the evidence I have. Just look at Wirecard and MasterCard. It's about corruption within the aquiring bank. This is crime, simple as. Too many poorly people back down, feeling ashamed of their gambling illness. Problem gambler is a horrible term.

Life goes on, regardless. A return of the money would be nice now I feel better. I'm in an odd position of having also lost significant withdrawals. Don't really fancy a court case with MasterCard but I will.

One other thing I did is show my evidence of trying to resolve the issue with the merchant and their responses. Notice how the casino says no problem, money on the way, please wait 30 days (attempting to get you past 45).

I'll let you know what happens guys. MasterCard and Visa could stop this very quickly if they blocked the acquiring bank but clearly it's paying not to at present.
 

DreamRJ

Out of this world!
MM
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Location
RJVille UK
Not being funny but I wished these threads about chargebacks would go away to be honest. It does not look good for anyone, those seeking to do them and it is also a way that others will also follow suit too "problem gamblers"

It is getting pretty annoying seeing soo many problem gamblers on CM now :(

If you have a problem with gambling, You probably should not be using a gambling related forum either. You do all know that there is a member group that you can request to join too, so that you can not access most of the gambling forums and just access the none gambling sections? Just saying :)
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
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Not being funny but I wished these threads about chargebacks would go away to be honest. It does not look good for anyone, those seeking to do them and it is also a way that others will also follow suit too "problem gamblers"

It is getting pretty annoying seeing soo many problem gamblers on CM now :(

If you have a problem with gambling, You probably should not be using a gambling related forum either. You do all know that there is a member group that you can request to join too, so that you can not access most of the gambling forums and just access the none gambling sections? Just saying :)
It's natural you're going to see numerous problem gamblers in these threads considering the fact that they are about scam casinos who deliberately target problem gamblers. If they chargeback, they are simply conning the conmen back. Morally different to being a PG who loses to a legit UKGC casino. These scam casinos KNOW a percentage of players will chargeback, they budget for it:

* They have few site costs as they are a templated version for sale to criminals.
* They have little in the way of provider fees as they run cheap pirated games from a fake slots aggregator, on the cheap.
* They have little or no tax to pay.
* They have next to no licensing fee in proportion to the money they can scam.
* They don't pay proper payment processing costs.
* They have no need for SoW checks or ID checks before they take cash.
* They can offer top RTPs due to the above and the fact paying players is purely voluntary on their part.
* They have problem gamblers who they know will play to bust and not likely realise they have been scammed because they don't withdraw.
* They know PGs will play irrational amounts of money.
* They may pay some players if their algorithm suggests they are likely PG's or likely to deposit far more later on.
* They simply won't pay any big liabilities to big winners, further increasing profitability.
* They also insure against big winners by having rogue terms like "Players cannot withdraw an amount exceeding their cumulative deposits" knowing the player will at least spunk the excess back after refusal, before initiating a second withdrawal which won't be paid.

So the more players that come to the CM forum and learn how to chargeback these scum, who succeed, the happier I am. :)
 
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