Should existing US customers avoid Microgaming?

[KasinoKing]

This very interesting question was posed by our old friend Lojo on another forum. That forum is very quiet, so I thought it worthy of bringing here to get CM members views.

This was the rest of his post, and my reply to it:-

Any thoughts? Any rogue actions?

I must have dozens of existing accounts and only ever play at a few.

That's a tricky question, but I would say yes, boycott them.
Microgaming have been sitting on the fence far to long IMHO, and can't seem to decide which way to jump.
They are the only software who blocked new players but allowed existing players to carry on as normal after the UIGEA. Then a while later they stopped USA citizens playing their Progressive games, and a few months ago they also started blocking existing USA customers from playing any new games.

I don't know what incentives (bonuses) USA players get from MGs, but if it's the same as I get in the UK they are totally crap (ignoring Ladbrokes & 32Red, which Americans can't play at all anyway).
So why play there when you can go to the better Rival casinos, some reputable RTGs, VTech and other softwares who actually treat their players like they are appreciated?

I think MG should take the plunge and open up totally to the USA again.
What's the worst that could happen?
If they feel the are within reach of the US government - why not move their operations to safe places like the other softwares I mentioned? You would have thought the $millions the casinos are losing out on would be more than enough incentive to make this move.

So yes, players should boycott them & force them to decide; Are you in, or are you out?
(Of the USA).

KK

 

[SlotKing]

I posted this a few days ago when a member was somewhat perturbed by MGS...

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/microgaming-really-pod-me-this-time.35235/

I'll never go back if i'm afforded the chance.

 

[Dinahnana]

This very interesting question was posed by our old friend Lojo on another forum. That forum is very quiet, so I thought it worthy of bringing here to get CM members views.

This was the rest of his post, and my reply to it:-



That's a tricky question, but I would say yes, boycott them.
Microgaming have been sitting on the fence far to long IMHO, and can't seem to decide which way to jump.
They are the only software who blocked new players but allowed existing players to carry on as normal after the UIGEA. Then a while later they stopped USA citizens playing their Progressive games, and a few months ago they also started blocking existing USA customers from playing any new games.

I don't know what incentives (bonuses) USA players get from MGs, but if it's the same as I get in the UK they are totally crap (ignoring Ladbrokes & 32Red, which Americans can't play at all anyway).
So why play there when you can go to the better Rival casinos, some reputable RTGs, VTech and other softwares who actually treat their players like they are appreciated?

I think MG should take the plunge and open up totally to the USA again.
What's the worst that could happen?
If they feel the are within reach of the US government - why not move their operations to safe places like the other softwares I mentioned? You would have thought the $millions the casinos are losing out on would be more than enough incentive to make this move.

So yes, players should boycott them & force them to decide; Are you in, or are you out?
(Of the USA).

KK

I for one would really like to have MG back in the US so I can have more choices. They should be forced to decide once and for all be in the US all the way or out all the way.

 

[mecan49]

As I've stated in the other post referenced . I have already boycotted them as well as several of my friends that also play at the MG sites. I like the games, but I also dont have to be treated the way that they have done lately.
The last support person I sopoke with at a MG casino was rude and annoyed with my question. So, I dont have to take it I DO have Choices!

 

[Dinahnana]

As I've stated in the other post referenced . I have already boycotted them as well as several of my friends that also play at the MG sites. I like the games, but I also dont have to be treated the way that they have done lately.
The last support person I sopoke with at a MG casino was rude and annoyed with my question. So, I dont have to take it I DO have Choices!

We always have choices, even if we have to fly to Vegas to get them

 

[Mavin1]

I think the playing community should come together and send a clear message to MG, that we are not happy with changes that have been made that excludes us from certain aspects of their software. If they can still offer a USA player part of their casino then they are still a USA player available casino and they need to conduct themselves as such.
I would much rather have the choice of keeping MG alive and well in the US market than to see them completely close their doors to us as our choices are already greatly diminished.
At this time I am already in a protest mode with them and all the others, so I would certainly look forward to some positive behavior on Microgammings part for a change.
If our wishes are not to be, then they only hurt themselves in the long run as they will lose many of their long time customers here in the USA and force us back to the Land Based casinos, which I can live with just fine.

I also wonder if Canadians are affected the same as we in the US.

 

[Wildfire7]

This very interesting question was posed by our old friend Lojo on another forum. That forum is very quiet, so I thought it worthy of bringing here to get CM members views.

This was the rest of his post, and my reply to it:-



That's a tricky question, but I would say yes, boycott them.
Microgaming have been sitting on the fence far to long IMHO, and can't seem to decide which way to jump.
They are the only software who blocked new players but allowed existing players to carry on as normal after the UIGEA. Then a while later they stopped USA citizens playing their Progressive games, and a few months ago they also started blocking existing USA customers from playing any new games.

I don't know what incentives (bonuses) USA players get from MGs, but if it's the same as I get in the UK they are totally crap (ignoring Ladbrokes & 32Red, which Americans can't play at all anyway).
So why play there when you can go to the better Rival casinos, some reputable RTGs, VTech and other softwares who actually treat their players like they are appreciated?

I think MG should take the plunge and open up totally to the USA again.
What's the worst that could happen?
If they feel the are within reach of the US government - why not move their operations to safe places like the other softwares I mentioned? You would have thought the $millions the casinos are losing out on would be more than enough incentive to make this move.

So yes, players should boycott them & force them to decide; Are you in, or are you out?
(Of the USA).

KK

With US players being excluded from progressives and new games, it amounts to sheer discrimination towards their customers. This is my view and it is a pragmatic one at that, American customers at MG casinos are either treated the same as players from other countries or they are simply not wanted customers, just an inconvenience, because MG don't really know what to do about them.

At the very least MG should be making concessions to these US players who are getting less value for their money and entertainment because of where they live. Many long standing customers or die hard fans may stay on for as long as they are allowed to. Some may shrug it off and say well with over 200 games, why be concerned with just a few they can not get. These will be a minority, most will be disgusted as they are currently playing in an MG twilight world.

A customer at any business cannot be an inconvenience, if that is the case then MG should ban all US players, and have a proper phasing out strategy of all existing customers with a clear target date, as well as comping customers off as a gesture of good will. Rather than the current underhand approach which seems as if MG are hedging their bets, trying to be all things to all people.

Mike

 

[gloria460]

I've already stopped playing them. It really is quite annoying when MCG thinks just bc you're a gambler and we got a few hundred games anyways that you will continue to play. I say to hell with them..new casinos are coming up with new ways to keep USA players, offering them bonuses (not the standard crap ass bonuses that MCG offers), progressive jackpots, good customer service and are starting to churn out new games fairly close.

I in all good conscience will not play at an MCG casino and be treated like 2nd hand poo!! I have not missed them at all.

 

[Pinababy69]

I also wonder if Canadians are affected the same as we in the US.

To answer that part of your post Mavin, no..not at all. The only changes that came to us were the inability to use Neteller anymore...but we still have Moneybookers available to us. And Rival banned all Canadians, but that had nothing to do with UIGEA.....but with the lawsuit that was filed against them for breach of contract. I wouldn't play there if I could, so no skin off my nose.

But as to MG, Playtech, RTG, Crypto et al., there are no restrictions on us. I haven't played at Wagerworks casinos, but I don't think Canadians are allowed to play there. Again, I think that may be due to part of their operations being based in Canada....but I'm not really sure.

 

[LaurieJim]

I think the US player is getting shafted by not only MG but its own Goverment and MG is using this as an excuse, i wont play anymore at the few im allowed at, as i see this unfair and unjust, when we cant play ALL the games as everyone else.

I like MG , love the games but not when your treated like a red haired step child by a group that could care less about the American player, wonder how much money they made from US in the long run before they bailed and jumped ship.............laurie

 

[Richard]

I for one loves Microgaming. I think its the fairest software out. Beggars can't be choosey. To me Rival payout sucks and their is too many issues with RTG RTP. Also everyone and their mother is opening up a RTG casino. Casino Share and Fortune Lounge gives me nice 70%+ weekly bonuses. I only play a selective number of games. And usually stick to the same pattern. Im sticking with MG until the wheels fall off. I know they don't allow progressive. Hell I never won one at RTG much less a Random Jackpot.

If we are going to boycott MG. Then we might as well boycott them all. I remember a couple years ago. The people was so upset the borders was wide open. And illegal Mexicans was coming in, taking our jobs and sending the money back to mexico. But nothing is said when we take our money. And send it to Costa Rico, South Africa, or Europe. To some unknown person running a casino out his basement.

Microgaming hasnt done anything that our government hasn't done. MG has taken away a few of our games. But the government has taken away alot of our deposit options. Its easy to come together and boycott MG. How about we come together and stop sending our money to other countries.

 

[jetset]

Whilst I very much take the point that treating gamblers in the US as 'second class citizens' and 'red headed step children' is a dangerous game to play, I have serious reservations about boycotts aimed at software providers, which imo are of dubious practical effectivity.

In the pioneering years of this industry, before reality and cynicism set in, I believed that boycotts could work in a couple of major issues back then, but experience has taught me that there is little evidence to prove that this is the case.

However, my reservations about software provider boycotts don't end there; I think boycotts tend to be indiscriminate in the damage they cause to other and probably innocent parties such as the licensee/operator, who may have a high regard for US clients but is constrained by the provider's restrictions on his licence. There are good and integrity driven operators out there and it would be sad to see them leave or be damaged.

OK, you may retort, so the operator can go join another software provider. That's easier said than done and carries with it major company policy and business model changes and international player preferences, not to mention long-established and successful business relationships and satisfaction in general with a good product.

Then there is the question of discrimination - there are far worse providers, and their licensees, guilty of very serious and dishonest actions daily against players - who more deservedly merit boycott than a company like Microgaming, which may be seen as arrogant, uncommunicative and uncaring, but nevertheless has a generally good track history in the industry for honest business conduct and games and (at least until recent times) above and beyond player support.

What about the questionable stunts pulled by Rival, RTG and others for example? If we were to be fair and add those to a personal boycott list that would pretty much draw a line under online gambling just about anywhere.

I therefore think that the proposal here may be interesting, but carries with it a slew of other elements that should be carefully considered, too.

I am personally very sympathetic to the notion that US players should not have to perceive themselves as being badly treated by the unique Microgaming policy toward the United States market.

It smacks of a shilly-shallying uncertainty in corporate strategy that is both frustrating and irritating in the extreme for Americans and probably for many licensees and marketing affiliates, too.

The indecisive nature that it suggests does little for the reputation of an otherwise very professionally managed company imo.

I therefore agree that Microgaming needs to better define and finalise its US policy instead of this unsatisfactory limbo-land like approach....but I'm conscious of the factors that are in play on the other side of this argument as well: player perspectives; the reaction of licensees; market positioning; financial considerations and the very real risks attached to saying 'the hell with the DoJ' among them.

So no, I don't think boycotts are the answer here....and they could backfire by leaving Americans with even less choice and fewer reputable venues.

 

[felicie]

Here's a dumb question but is there anyone here like a rep from micro that would explain the situation as it stands today?
I too love microgaming and have a tendency to put the blame on the indecisiveness/indifference of the U.S. govt. It's like a big bully that screws up the whole game just because it can and then can't seem to decide where to go next and until they start asking the american people what WE want, they have no business getting involved in it anyway in my opinion but thats another big problem altogether.
I do know what it feels like to be treated like crap by some but never by micro casinos so I guess my answer would be NO on boycotting them too. I would however be willing to consider other possible boycotts of other software providers.

 

[The Dude]

...The indecisive nature that it suggests does little for the reputation of an otherwise very professionally managed company imo.

I therefore agree that Microgaming needs to better define and finalise its US policy instead of this unsatisfactory limbo-land like approach....but I'm conscious of the factors that are in play on the other side of this argument as well: player perspectives; the reaction of licensees; market positioning; financial considerations and the very real risks attached to saying 'the hell with the DoJ' among them.

So no, I don't think boycotts are the answer here....and they could backfire by leaving Americans with even less choice and fewer reputable venues.

What I think is happening are several things. For one, I don't think Joe the player (or affiliate for that matter ) understands the complexity of the online casino industry - and how squirrely laws and contracts between companies affect the ability to use certain software from whatever jurisdictions. And when the reasons for changes are not made explicit - all one can do is conjure up assumptions. Like in this case - weren't the US players blocked from signing up when Kentucky nicked the domains for a number of casinos to include microgaming.com? I think this was around the same time. It could have something to do with this, but who knows. All one can do is extrapolate.

As for no new games available to the US players - again, one must speculate. I was guessing that it could have to do with contracts with a possibly outsourced game developer. But again, I'm only guessing since I don't know for certain.

Here's a dumb question but is there anyone here like a rep from micro that would explain the situation as it stands today?
I too love microgaming and have a tendency to put the blame on the indecisiveness/indifference of the U.S. govt. It's like a big bully that screws up the whole game just because it can and then can't seem to decide where to go next and until they start asking the american people what WE want, they have no business getting involved in it anyway in my opinion but thats another big problem altogether. ...

I'm sure MGS is aware of this thread. So I'll try and simplify things and just ask. It would be nice to know what is up with one of the leading software providers that has always valued its US players.

 

[Mavin1]

Thanks Jetset for that very good explaination of what some of us as just players never think of and I agree with you, boycotting wouldn't be the best approach for what we would like to see accomplished between us and Micrgamming. As for those of us in the US, it has been IMO the top casino platform we have left even if we do like to gripe about them along with other platforms.
I am not totally unreasonable when a subject/explaination makes sense. Yours couldn't be any clearer, so thank you again.

 

[gloria460]

You know Jetset I've been a player of MCG for at least 10 years now; more or less the Fortune Lounge group and Grand Bay. The other MCG casinos I played at sporadically because Fortune Lounge was my go to casino.

I never felt slighted, cheated, undervalued and always enjoyed my playtime at those casinos. They sent snail mail gifts, emails and occasionally I had phone calls. I had never asked for a comp in all my years playing there but they often gave them to me and they were not for small amounts.

Let's forward to the future, there are hardly any comps, no gifts, no emails and no enjoyment of playing there anymore. I don't know if this has anything to do with the UIGEA or not but this has certainly put a wrench in my enjoyment there. Throw in the fact that you no longer can play multiplayer games, progressives and new games. You can sign up for our million dollar tournaments but you're not going to win bc we have no way to pay you but we'll take your money. They are arrogant and indifferent to players and most of their casino operators don't even know about the changes until the player wants to know what's going on.

I respect your opinion but MCG has grown rich and fat on the backs of American players. They pretty much do not care what we think nor what we do as their player base and operators are huge. I believe the only reason that we're still around is bc the operators don't want to take a huge hit all at once(VWM).

Collectively, don't you think that the operators would/could have an influence on MCG if they chose to but all they're doing is accepting the status quo. If you say boycotting is not the answer then what? Accept the way we're being treated and hope that they have a change of mind and let us back in to enjoy the whole casino and not bits and pieces of it.

I understand what you are saying but I have no sympathy for the casinos that have no empathy for me.

As for RTG and Rival that's a horse of a different color and really doesn't apply to this thread. I don't see them limiting anything that we can play but I do understand about their casino practices and I tread carefully where I play and thus far have had no problems.

 

[Mavin1]

The pure player in me also feels as Gloria has stated here. So it would be nice if Microgamming would be a little more public regarding player concerns. Otherwise we wouldn't be so upset and dissapointed so much lately.
Although boycotting may not be the best approach, then as Gloria said what do we do when they tell us nothing, just let them keep surprising us with these changes and keep playing like we are oblivious and nothing phases us?

I still agree with what you are saying, yet also feel something needs to be addressed by Microgamming themselves. Or are we to be just left in the quicksand?

 

[jetset]

I think you have captured the interplay of operator and provider well, and I can understand from your perspective as an American player why this unsatisfactory situation frustrates and angers you.

I am sure I would feel pretty much as you do, but that still doesn't validate the idea of a boycott that I suspect would be hard to mount and produce little in the way of a constructive result.

As I said earlier, you may have given up on MGS, but there are many other players who clearly have not, and even if such a boycott was effective in pushing MGS to go all the way with a US ban how would that benefit the US player? (other than to satisfy a sense of schadenfreude)

It would merely reduce further the limited choice now available to US players - and some of the choices not too hot at that.

The situation is in the hands of MGS and its operators unless there is a dramatic change in the status quo, and I am afraid that without knowing exactly what the many options involved in a decision of this magnitude and complexity are, I am not in a position to offer you alternatives to a boycott.

That said, I agree absolutely that Microgaming - or one of its operators or surrogates if they are worried about the US enforcement authorities eavesdropping - needs to communicate as far as it possibly can in order to assuage these feelings of being neglected and treated in an off-hand and uncaring manner. That's something that I am sure could be implemented with a little planning and consideration.

But I remain personally convinced that boycotts are unlikely to produce the sort of positive result that we would all want to see.

I must agree to disagree with you on the question of relevance in this thread in regard to other providers like Rival and RTG.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The problem is not just that US players are being kept in the dark, they are being LIED TO when they ask questions.

Take, for example, the decision to block US players from playing the new games from December. Of course MGS knew this was happening, but when US players noticed they had trouble getting the new games to work, operators and MGS saw to it that they were to,d it was merely "technical issues", or "further testing", with the obvious intent of not disuading US players from continuing to deposit and play at that point.

It was only after persistence, and the exhaustion of any credibility for the "technical issues/further testing" excuse that it was admitted that US players were never intended to have the new games, and the only "technical issue" being worked on was the FAILURE of the software to block all US players.

There have been a string of decisions, all negative to the US player, that have been made and implemented in secret, and with a policy of lying about them until forced to admit that the decision had been made, implemented, and would not be reversed.

US players have to worry what comes next. Sure, they can still play the old games, but what happens next time depends upon the decision made. The scenario players must worry about is one involving their accounts being locked overnight, with funds and unmet WR on bonuses trapped in them. This HAS happened before, repeatedly, when operators have pulled out of the US. Players are then unable to detach themselves from the casino in an orderly manner, they can't log on and withdraw their balance, they have to go through lengthy procedures through CS, and are often PUNISHED for failing to meet the outstanding WR, even though it was the operator's lack of notice that caused this.

As for a boycott, MGS are ALREADY boycotting US players, with secret decisions, coupled with denying the US players a voice.

There is certainly a case for US players to boycott MGS temporarily until they make a decision, and tell US players what is going to happen, and when.

 

[winbig]

The problem is not just that US players are being kept in the dark, they are being LIED TO when they ask questions.

Take, for example, the decision to block US players from playing the new games from December.

Let's not forget when MGS pulled the progressives and initially lied to us as to what was going on. What makes this even worse is the fact that to this day, the progressive list still shows up in the game lobby...but it's void of games.

 

[Roanan]

I also wonder if Canadians are affected the same as we in the US.

To answer that part of your post Mavin, no..not at all. The only changes that came to us were the inability to use Neteller anymore...but we still have Moneybookers available to us. And Rival banned all Canadians, but that had nothing to do with UIGEA.....but with the lawsuit that was filed against them for breach of contract. I wouldn't play there if I could, so no skin off my nose.

But as to MG, Playtech, RTG, Crypto et al., there are no restrictions on us. I haven't played at Wagerworks casinos, but I don't think Canadians are allowed to play there. Again, I think that may be due to part of their operations being based in Canada....but I'm not really sure.

Despite all the efforts made by the previous administration, and even though our Prime Minister is a moron with ZERO support and bent over every time G.W. Hitler puckered up, we are NOT the 51st state and American laws do not apply here.

There are a number of anti-gambling laws on the books, but the only one that is ever enforced involves advertising.

The governments here rely on gambling for their income and quietly approve of online gaming because it has a ripple effect through their own endeavors.
Hell, the government of British Columbia recently upped the maximum weekly spending through their online portal from $120 /week to $10000/week.
(Understandable, seeing how the Olympics are bankrupting our province and will be the cause of the worst recession we have ever seen)

There are a number of sites that did, or still do ban Canadian players but their reasons are pure BS.
This is evident by the fact that Las Vegas At Home Entertainment (Action Poker, Tiger Gaming, etc) is headquartered in downtown Vancouver.

 

[gloria460]

Jetset maybe you can bring this topic up if you're going to the conference and maybe someone in the know might answer you but I won't hold my breath as they are too secretive.

I redownloaded Platinum Play just to see what all the fuss was about with the screen resolution and guess what, my lobby hasn't changed. That also means we can't play four or five games at once like the rest of you. Can you winbig or Laurie?

I do believe it's the end of the line for us in the USA and after reinstalling PP I kinda miss it. Frankly, I'm not sure what to play or where to go so my best bet is to head to the B&M casino which is a short drive from my home. It's a no win situation. I know I'll dabble here and there but It'll be nothing like it was before December. I've already dropped from VIP platinum to gold..lol

 

[vinylweatherman]

Jetset maybe you can bring this topic up if you're going to the conference and maybe someone in the know might answer you but I won't hold my breath as they are too secretive.

I redownloaded Platinum Play just to see what all the fuss was about with the screen resolution and guess what, my lobby hasn't changed. That also means we can't play four or five games at once like the rest of you. Can you winbig or Laurie?

I do believe it's the end of the line for us in the USA and after reinstalling PP I kinda miss it. Frankly, I'm not sure what to play or where to go so my best bet is to head to the B&M casino which is a short drive from my home. It's a no win situation. I know I'll dabble here and there but It'll be nothing like it was before December. I've already dropped from VIP platinum to gold..lol

Platinum Play has not yet taken the lobby upgrade, it seems to be being rolled out, rather than being done all at once. It does seem that ALL MGS casinos are going to get it some time this month.

Yesterday, Red Flush was still the old lobby, but today it upgraded. All Slots upgraded days ago, and 32Red shortly after.

Along with these changes, MGS are for the first time RETIRING games for EVERYBODY (not just Americans). There are also some additions not being announced, as there are a whole load of the "unique games" there now, rather than just "scratchcard" and "keno".

 

[jetset]

Jetset maybe you can bring this topic up if you're going to the conference and maybe someone in the know might answer you but I won't hold my breath as they are too secretive.

I redownloaded Platinum Play just to see what all the fuss was about with the screen resolution and guess what, my lobby hasn't changed. That also means we can't play four or five games at once like the rest of you. Can you winbig or Laurie?

I do believe it's the end of the line for us in the USA and after reinstalling PP I kinda miss it. Frankly, I'm not sure what to play or where to go so my best bet is to head to the B&M casino which is a short drive from my home. It's a no win situation. I know I'll dabble here and there but It'll be nothing like it was before December. I've already dropped from VIP platinum to gold..lol

I have already alerted MGS management to this thread, which I regard as important for their attention, and I have arranged to speak about it to them at the conference later this month.

I won't be holding my breath either, but not out of cynicism; the fact is that I understand this is an issue that involves internal corporate debate and consideration of what I imagine will be a number of legal and business elements.

As an outsider I clearly will have no knowledge of what those debates conclude, but I do know that this is generally a professionally managed company and that the issue will be thoroughly examined.

Whether that will result in public or overt statements or actions is again something that is beyond my knowledge.

 

[rockycatt]

kinda off topic. why most not all online casino or poker banned us players from playing? i am just curious on why...

The way i see it it's flight of asset's

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