Should casinos be given a choice to hide rtp and choose rtp?

[lockinlove]

I am finding some casinos being alittle bit sketchy here. With software providers such as play n go where they can choose their rtp, they are choosing the lowest rtp and hiding it from their players on purpose. However when its at the highest setting they will advertise.

For example. Slotsmillion is using the 94% rtp model on book of dead. Yet you cannot find that infromation on the slot because its been hidden.

I had to wait 8 days to get a response about book of deads rtp on slotsmillion which is ridiculous.



I do not think casinos should be allowed to hide this purposely from their customers.

 

[goatwack]

They do it because they can. And because they know regulatory bodies take about a year to delve into things like this.

Yet another joyous reason to harbour doubts over even the so-called accredited casinos. When the providers aren't disclosing the correct RTP we have casinos 'internally' hoping nobody notices

 

[dunover]

I am finding some casinos being alittle bit sketchy here. With software providers such as play n go where they can choose their rtp, they are choosing the lowest rtp and hiding it from their players on purpose. However when its at the highest setting they will advertise.

For example. Slotsmillion is using the 94% rtp model on book of dead. Yet you cannot find that infromation on the slot because its been hidden.

I had to wait 8 days to get a response about book of deads rtp on slotsmillion which is ridiculous.

View attachment 88298

I do not think casinos should be allowed to hide this purposely from their customers.

That doesn't answer your question - they've simply supplied the figure it's paid across their players in 2018 thus far, which is less than the factory RTP by the way!

 

[lockinlove]

That doesn't answer your question - they've simply supplied the figure it's paid across their players in 2018 thus far, which is less than the factory RTP by the way!

So they set it at that for 2018? because my question was "what is the factory setting of book of dead on your website set at" and thats what they gave me after saying they were going to ask whoever knows.

 

[goatwack]

Nothing like that personal touch from CS, with that carefully considered answer of theirs

 

[brianmon]

PnG don't seem to be available to me (UK) at SlotsMillion.

But having checked a few other sites where I know the RTP.
It seems that only the sites which are displaying the RTP in the helpfile are the casinos which are using the highest setting (96%) (eg VideoSlots)
The helpfiles at other sites, which I know use a lower setting 94% or lower (CasinoHeroes, CasinoLuck etc), have been edited and the RPT figure deleted.
It's normally displayed above the paragraph which begins, "In the SETTINGS window........."

So I'd say, as a rule of thumb, If the RTP isn't displayed in the helpfile, then the RTP has been set lower than it's maximum.

 

[lockinlove]

PnG don't seem to be available to me (UK) at SlotsMillion.

But having checked a few other sites where I know the RTP.
It seems that only the sites which are displaying the RTP in the helpfile are the casinos which are using the highest setting (96%) (eg VideoSlots)
The helpfiles at other sites, which I know use a lower setting 94% or lower (CasinoHeroes, CasinoLuck etc), have been edited and the RPT figure deleted.
It's normally displayed above the paragraph which begins, "In the SETTINGS window........."

So I'd say, as a rule of thumb, If the RTP isn't displayed in the helpfile, then the RTP has been set lower than it's maximum.

 

[brianmon]

View attachment 88317

From LeoVegas.....

 

[lockinlove]

Yea same for me. brutal casinos take the rtp off when they use the lowest version so people dont see it

 

[brianmon]

Yea same for me. brutal casinos take the rtp off when they use the lowest version so people dont see it

It's not the casinos who have removed it, It would have to be PnG themselves to do that, although possibly at the request of the casinos who use the lower settings.

Whichever it is, it breaches UKGC regulations, so far as UK players are concerned.

 

[NeverLucky]

It's not the casinos who have removed it, It would have to be PnG themselves to do that, although possibly at the request of the casinos who use the lower settings.

Whichever it is, it breaches UKGC regulations, so far as UK players are concerned.

Wish we could just force PnG to display it like this..
Probably never going to happen though.

 

[lockinlove]

lol ya right hahaha

 

[quber]

From page 12 of the UKGC remote technical standards @ Old / Expired Link

RTS requirement 3C

For each virtual event, game (including bingo), or lottery, information that may reasonably be expected to enable the customer to make an informed decision about his or her chances of winning must be easily available before the customer commits to gamble.

Information must include:
i. a description of the way the game works and the way in which winners are determined and prizes allocated
ii. house edge (or margin)
iii. the return to player (RTP) percentage or
iv. the probability (likelihood) of winning events occurring.

 

[nikantw]

From page 12 of the UKGC remote technical standards @ Old / Expired Link

RTS requirement 3C

For each virtual event, game (including bingo), or lottery, information that may reasonably be expected to enable the customer to make an informed decision about his or her chances of winning must be easily available before the customer commits to gamble.

Information must include:
i. a description of the way the game works and the way in which winners are determined and prizes allocated
ii. house edge (or margin)
iii. the return to player (RTP) percentage or
iv. the probability (likelihood) of winning events occurring.

Nice, I love the iv but they should remove the "or" at the end of iii and demand the probability (likelihood) of specific events displayed (bonus round, 100x, 1000x, 5000x ......).
So only UKGC has that rule? Malta? Gibraltar?

 

[quber]

Nice, I love the iv but they should remove the "or" at the end of iii and demand the probability (likelihood) of specific events displayed (bonus round, 100x, 1000x, 5000x ......).
So only UKGC has that rule? Malta? Gibraltar?

I'm not sure if Malta or Gib have the rule but any company taking UK customers has to abide by the UKGC for those customers.

 

[nikantw]

I'm not sure if Malta or Gib have the rule but any company taking UK customers has to abide by the UKGC for those customers.

Of course, but since lockinlove (OP), me and many others are not from UK, what Malta and Gib say is important for us.
Is it ok to hide the RTP from everybody that doesn't live in UK?

 

[Wild Reels]

the newest one to jump on this bandwagon is nextgen, with several of their new releases being offered to the operator with 2 different RTP settings but roughly a 1% difference in each version, not all of their new releases but several have been popping up, then its down to the casinos to decide which one to use.

Personally id like to see it on the loading screen saving me having to trawl through the game rules.

 

[Tirilej]

Of course, but since lockinlove (OP), me and many others are not from UK, what Malta and Gib say is important for us.
Is it ok to hide the RTP from everybody that doesn't live in UK?

Even if they are allowed to hide it then that is a casino that should be rated very low. By everyone everywhere.
Not because they are using the lower version but because they are hiding it.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Good find lockinlove!

Just checked BoD and Planet Fortune at Rizk, Thrills, Guts, SuperLenny --> no RTP in the text file!

Rather disappointed by that or maybe even angry. You would expect that respectable casinos would provide transparency!

 

[orion]

the newest one to jump on this bandwagon is nextgen, with several of their new releases being offered to the operator with 2 different RTP settings but roughly a 1% difference in each version, not all of their new releases but several have been popping up, then its down to the casinos to decide which one to use.

so, resuming:
- RTG
- Play 'n Go
- IGT
- NextGen

others ?

 

[nikantw]

Good find lockinlove!

Just checked BoD and Planet Fortune at Rizk, Thrills, Guts, SuperLenny --> no RTP in the text file!

Rather disappointed by that or maybe even angry. You would expect that respectable casinos would provide transparency!

Yes, very disappointed.
Can members from UK confirm if they see the RTP, or if the games with hidden / lower RTP are offered to them?

 

[Harry_BKK]

Yes, very disappointed.
Can members from UK confirm if they see the RTP, or if the games with hidden / lower RTP are offered to them?

I asked the Captain for an answer. Hope he answers soon.

 

[Lemon]

A lot of Microgaming slots don't display the RTP% in the help pages or the rules text. So I don't bother playing them. I want to know what I'm up against before I play. The same goes for IGT slots - why not just display the exact RTP% instead of a range? I'm not just going to assume it's at the higher end. If the UKGCC wants to do something that players will truly appreciate they should make it mandatory to show the RTP% in a standard place, or at least make it easier to find, and show the exact value, not a range.

 

[Captain Rizk]

Good find lockinlove!

Just checked BoD and Planet Fortune at Rizk, Thrills, Guts, SuperLenny --> no RTP in the text file!

Rather disappointed by that or maybe even angry. You would expect that respectable casinos would provide transparency!

We have no access or control over the content of the help files, that is controlled by the game provider.

That being said, we are talking to Play and Go now to find out why it is not included. We agree with you that this is important information that absolutely should be shown in every jurisdiction for transparency purposes. I will update the thread when we hear back from PnG.

In the meantime, I can guarantee you that all PnG games at Rizk are set to the highest RTP possible, that is a point of policy for us.

 

[lockinlove]

Out of the sites ive went through lately, all the ones that do not display the rtp are using the lower model and the ones using the highest model display it.

Casino cruise group is another one that ive found to be using the lowest model.

Every casino should absolutely be obligated to post the rtp or at least not be given a choice to hide it. Thats about as dishonest as you can get with a license.

And it should be written in the terms that some providers allow the casino to choose different models so the player is aware the could be playing on an altered rtp version and not what players assume will be the industry average.

Very sneaky and dishonest.

The UKGC wants to implement source of wealth forms, how about they start taking care of things that actually matter and making sure the casino is being transparent and honest first and not allowing this nonsense to take place. Although, I will be fair and say they may not be aware casinos are doing this.

I am sending a report to all gaming commissions with screenshots, staff replies, email and chat logs all confirming what is being done. This way they can be aware of it and not say they didnt know.