Should casinos be given a choice to hide rtp and choose rtp?

lockinlove

Staring into the sun
PABaccred
I am finding some casinos being alittle bit sketchy here. With software providers such as play n go where they can choose their rtp, they are choosing the lowest rtp and hiding it from their players on purpose. However when its at the highest setting they will advertise.

For example. Slotsmillion is using the 94% rtp model on book of dead. Yet you cannot find that infromation on the slot because its been hidden.

I had to wait 8 days to get a response about book of deads rtp on slotsmillion which is ridiculous.

Capture.PNG

I do not think casinos should be allowed to hide this purposely from their customers.
 

goatwack

Swingin' like Darryl Strawberry
CAG
They do it because they can. And because they know regulatory bodies take about a year to delve into things like this.

Yet another joyous reason to harbour doubts over even the so-called accredited casinos. When the providers aren't disclosing the correct RTP we have casinos 'internally' hoping nobody notices :cool:
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
I am finding some casinos being alittle bit sketchy here. With software providers such as play n go where they can choose their rtp, they are choosing the lowest rtp and hiding it from their players on purpose. However when its at the highest setting they will advertise.

For example. Slotsmillion is using the 94% rtp model on book of dead. Yet you cannot find that infromation on the slot because its been hidden.

I had to wait 8 days to get a response about book of deads rtp on slotsmillion which is ridiculous.

View attachment 88298

I do not think casinos should be allowed to hide this purposely from their customers.

That doesn't answer your question - they've simply supplied the figure it's paid across their players in 2018 thus far, which is less than the factory RTP by the way!
 

lockinlove

Staring into the sun
PABaccred
That doesn't answer your question - they've simply supplied the figure it's paid across their players in 2018 thus far, which is less than the factory RTP by the way!
So they set it at that for 2018? because my question was "what is the factory setting of book of dead on your website set at" and thats what they gave me after saying they were going to ask whoever knows.
 

goatwack

Swingin' like Darryl Strawberry
CAG
Nothing like that personal touch from CS, with that carefully considered answer of theirs :what:
 

brianmon

Meister Member
webby
mm4
PnG don't seem to be available to me (UK) at SlotsMillion.

But having checked a few other sites where I know the RTP.
It seems that only the sites which are displaying the RTP in the helpfile are the casinos which are using the highest setting (96%) (eg VideoSlots)
The helpfiles at other sites, which I know use a lower setting 94% or lower (CasinoHeroes, CasinoLuck etc), have been edited and the RPT figure deleted.
It's normally displayed above the paragraph which begins, "In the SETTINGS window........."

So I'd say, as a rule of thumb, If the RTP isn't displayed in the helpfile, then the RTP has been set lower than it's maximum.
 

lockinlove

Staring into the sun
PABaccred
PnG don't seem to be available to me (UK) at SlotsMillion.

But having checked a few other sites where I know the RTP.
It seems that only the sites which are displaying the RTP in the helpfile are the casinos which are using the highest setting (96%) (eg VideoSlots)
The helpfiles at other sites, which I know use a lower setting 94% or lower (CasinoHeroes, CasinoLuck etc), have been edited and the RPT figure deleted.
It's normally displayed above the paragraph which begins, "In the SETTINGS window........."

So I'd say, as a rule of thumb, If the RTP isn't displayed in the helpfile, then the RTP has been set lower than it's maximum.
Capture.PNG
 

lockinlove

Staring into the sun
PABaccred
Yea same for me. brutal casinos take the rtp off when they use the lowest version so people dont see it
 

brianmon

Meister Member
webby
mm4
Yea same for me. brutal casinos take the rtp off when they use the lowest version so people dont see it
It's not the casinos who have removed it, It would have to be PnG themselves to do that, although possibly at the request of the casinos who use the lower settings.

Whichever it is, it breaches UKGC regulations, so far as UK players are concerned.
 

NeverLucky

is actually lucky sometimes
It's not the casinos who have removed it, It would have to be PnG themselves to do that, although possibly at the request of the casinos who use the lower settings.

Whichever it is, it breaches UKGC regulations, so far as UK players are concerned.
Wish we could just force PnG to display it like this..
Probably never going to happen though.
 

Attachments

quber

Senior Member
From page 12 of the UKGC remote technical standards @
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RTS requirement 3C

For each virtual event, game (including bingo), or lottery, information that may reasonably be expected to enable the customer to make an informed decision about his or her chances of winning must be easily available before the customer commits to gamble.

Information must include:
i. a description of the way the game works and the way in which winners are determined and prizes allocated
ii. house edge (or margin)
iii. the return to player (RTP) percentage or
iv. the probability (likelihood) of winning events occurring.
 

nikantw

Ueber Meister
PABaccred
CAG
MM
From page 12 of the UKGC remote technical standards @
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RTS requirement 3C

For each virtual event, game (including bingo), or lottery, information that may reasonably be expected to enable the customer to make an informed decision about his or her chances of winning must be easily available before the customer commits to gamble.

Information must include:
i. a description of the way the game works and the way in which winners are determined and prizes allocated
ii. house edge (or margin)
iii. the return to player (RTP) percentage or
iv. the probability (likelihood) of winning events occurring.
Nice, I love the iv but they should remove the "or" at the end of iii and demand the probability (likelihood) of specific events displayed (bonus round, 100x, 1000x, 5000x ......).
So only UKGC has that rule? Malta? Gibraltar?
 

quber

Senior Member
Nice, I love the iv but they should remove the "or" at the end of iii and demand the probability (likelihood) of specific events displayed (bonus round, 100x, 1000x, 5000x ......).
So only UKGC has that rule? Malta? Gibraltar?
I'm not sure if Malta or Gib have the rule but any company taking UK customers has to abide by the UKGC for those customers.
 

nikantw

Ueber Meister
PABaccred
CAG
MM
I'm not sure if Malta or Gib have the rule but any company taking UK customers has to abide by the UKGC for those customers.
Of course, but since lockinlove (OP), me and many others are not from UK, what Malta and Gib say is important for us. ;)
Is it ok to hide the RTP from everybody that doesn't live in UK?
 

Wild Reels

Meister Member
webmeister
the newest one to jump on this bandwagon is nextgen, with several of their new releases being offered to the operator with 2 different RTP settings but roughly a 1% difference in each version, not all of their new releases but several have been popping up, then its down to the casinos to decide which one to use.

Personally id like to see it on the loading screen saving me having to trawl through the game rules.
 

Tirilej

Still a Lady
CAG
MM
Of course, but since lockinlove (OP), me and many others are not from UK, what Malta and Gib say is important for us. ;)
Is it ok to hide the RTP from everybody that doesn't live in UK?
Even if they are allowed to hide it then that is a casino that should be rated very low. By everyone everywhere.
Not because they are using the lower version but because they are hiding it.
 

orion

Experienced Member
PABnonaccred
the newest one to jump on this bandwagon is nextgen, with several of their new releases being offered to the operator with 2 different RTP settings but roughly a 1% difference in each version, not all of their new releases but several have been popping up, then its down to the casinos to decide which one to use.
so, resuming:
- RTG
- Play 'n Go
- IGT
- NextGen

others ?
 
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