Serious flaws found in GAMSTOP

[Nicola]

I'm not going to post the BBC News link from today because it tells you how to get around the self-exclusion but who's stupid idea was it to publicise the get around(s) on a national news website!

Since day one the scheme has been open to manipulation, but the latest findings in the report are alarming that it takes something so simple to get back gambling again. Also, a six month extension has been given to remaining operators to incorporate GAMSTOP.

As someone who helped in the beta/development of this project I am seriously disappointed this morning by both the failures of the National Online Self Exclusion Scheme and the media for reporting the flaws!

 

[steveh35]

I'm not going to post the BBC News link from today because it tells you how to get around the self-exclusion but who's stupid idea was it to publicise the get around(s) on a national news website!

Since day one the scheme has been open to manipulation, but the latest findings in the report are alarming that it takes something so simple to get back gambling again. Also, a six month extension has been given to remaining operators to incorporate GAMSTOP.

As someone who helped in the beta/development of this project I am seriously disappointed this morning by both the failures of the National Online Self Exclusion Scheme and the media for reporting the flaws!

Just be warned about the father & son on the actual story I have seen them interviewed on Look North before and they are determined to eradicate gambling altogether they are not just two people warning about the dangers, as for publicising the get around surely this helps to sort out any flaws in the system and make it better.

 

[Harry_BKK]

I don't really see the flaw.

How is Gamstop supposed to detect an SE'ed player when he/she changes the registration details? The only way to stop this is to issue an online ID which then needs to be used to register at online casinos because then nothing can be changed in the details. If they resort to different emails, it would still be picked up by the name, DOB and address. As long as such an ID is not available, the GamStop system works as intended, it will detect SE'ed players on registration with the same details.

I actually think the story is flawed. Why have all those investigators not tried to go through the KYC check or withdrawal process as that is the point they would be detected. Yes, they were able to register with changed details but nowhere does it say that they actually passed KYC. AFAIK, UK casinos have 72 hours to complete KYC before blocking the account. So an addict could open a new account every 72 hours and change every time a few things on his details.

You said, that you wouldn't like to post the link which is pointless since you named the TV station and GamStop. A simple Google search with the two items shows the article on top.

Or do you really think that addicts are that stupid that they didn't find out about that long time ago? .... That would have been the first thing they would have tried.

Geez, don't know what to say. GamStop is a voluntary scheme where people can register, nothing else. Noone and nothing can stop an addict when he/she wants to gamble.

 

[dunover]

I don't really see the flaw.

How is Gamstop supposed to detect an SE'ed player when he/she changes the registration details? The only way to stop this is to issue an online ID which then needs to be used to register at online casinos because then nothing can be changed in the details. If they resort to different emails, it would still be picked up by the name, DOB and address. As long as such an ID is not available, the GamStop system works as intended, it will detect SE'ed players on registration with the same details.

I actually think the story is flawed. Why have all those investigators not tried to go through the KYC check or withdrawal process as that is the point they would be detected. Yes, they were able to register with changed details but nowhere does it say that they actually passed KYC. AFAIK, UK casinos have 72 hours to complete KYC before blocking the account. So an addict could open a new account every 72 hours and change every time a few things on his details.

You said, that you wouldn't like to post the link which is pointless since you named the TV station and GamStop. A simple Google search with the two items shows the article on top.

Or do you really think that addicts are that stupid that they didn't find out about that long time ago? .... That would have been the first thing they would have tried.

Geez, don't know what to say. GamStop is a voluntary scheme where people can register, nothing else. Noone and nothing can stop an addict when he/she wants to gamble.

Which is something we see with hellish regularity on here, duplicate accounts at individual casinos via exactly these tactics.

 

[nutnut]

Just be warned about the father & son on the actual story I have seen them interviewed on Look North before and they are determined to eradicate gambling altogether they are not just two people warning about the dangers, as for publicising the get around surely this helps to sort out any flaws in the system and make it better.

Just what society needs two snowflake men who want to ban us all from our enjoyment because they can't control themselves. Getting sick of addicts whether gambling or other related substances constantly lecturing us about how everything should be banned because a certain percentage of society has no self control. Sadly it works.

Sugar
Alcohol
Gambling
Emission levels


What next? Takeways, Mcdonalds, Driving? Breathing? ANYTHING in life can be addictive, whether masturbating to tranny porn, or playing games all day, everyone has something they do too much, if you have a problem seek help not lectur the rest of us how little self control you have because the majority of us have some sort of control so feck off.

 

[Roseyetta]

The report is very unfair, if used properly GAMstop does what it's meant to do, I SE'd for 6 months through GAMstop, received no marketing emails and was blocked from all accounts (I checked), and correct me if I'm wrong (sure someone will) but did it not become mandatory for UK sites till this year?

 

[dunover]

The report is very unfair, if used properly GAMstop does what it's meant to do, I SE'd for 6 months through GAMstop, received no marketing emails and was blocked from all accounts (I checked), and correct me if I'm wrong (sure someone will) but did it not become mandatory for UK sites till this year?

It was supposed to be effected for all UKGC licensees from Jan 1 this year, but for technical reason it's got a 6-month extension.

 

[dunover]

Just what society needs two snowflake men who want to ban us all from our enjoyment because they can't control themselves. Getting sick of addicts whether gambling or other related substances constantly lecturing us about how everything should be banned because a certain percentage of society has no self control. Sadly it works.
Sugar
Alcohol
Gambling
Emission levels
What next? Takeways, Mcdonalds, Driving? Breathing? ANYTHING in life can be addictive, whether masturbating to tranny porn, or playing games all day, everyone has something they do too much, if you have a problem seek help not lectur the rest of us how little self control you have because the majority of us have some sort of control so feck off.

Yes, I'm struggling to meet my EU regulation levels on that one.

 

[snorky510238]

Simple solution, accounts must be verified before your first deposit is made. Simple logical solution the rocket scientists have chosen to overlook. Imo the only reason casinos wouldn’t want this put in place is because they are afraid people will play elsewhere rather than wait 72 hours before they can play. If it was across the board it would give players a fair guidance as to whether the casino was legit and a level playing field for all.

 

[steveh35]

Just what society needs two snowflake men who want to ban us all from our enjoyment because they can't control themselves. Getting sick of addicts whether gambling or other related substances constantly lecturing us about how everything should be banned because a certain percentage of society has no self control. Sadly it works.

Sugar
Alcohol
Gambling
Emission levels


What next? Takeways, Mcdonalds, Driving? Breathing? ANYTHING in life can be addictive, whether masturbating to tranny porn, or playing games all day, everyone has something they do too much, if you have a problem seek help not lectur the rest of us how little self control you have because the majority of us have some sort of control so feck off.

In fact they have made numerous appearances on Look North the first in 2014

then a year later in 2015

and then they were on again in 2018m they have also done an interview on BBC Radio Sheffield claiming the NHS isn't helping them and now they have published a video on Youtube claiming they are being trolled

oh and they had a trip to London to speak to LBC

 

[Roseyetta]

So if the UK has an extension of 6 months, this makes the article pointless, until all UKGC are registered people may try their luck at registering at different sites.
It's a shame, as GAMstop has the potential to reduce problem gambling significantly if used correctly.

 

[colinsunderland]

As I said in another thread, a postcode lookup and surname check on registration (not withdrawal) should be enough to stop most re-registrations. I imagine most gamblers who get to the stage of self exclusion are aware of KYC, so there would be no point in registering knowing for a fact it will be picked up pretty much instantly.

 

[dunover]

The success with which problem gamblers tackle their issue always correlates with how much of the blame they are prepared to accept for their own actions.

It's hard to acknowledge your own personal frailties and weakness and the damage you have wrought on yourself and others around you, therefore many choose to assuage their guilt by focussing on the industry, advertising and availability etc.

It's also difficult for them to accept others can enjoy it as much as they did without losing control.

Which leads them to conclude that if they became addicts then everybody else will.

Then the campaigning starts.

 

[Harry_BKK]

As I said in another thread, a postcode lookup and surname check on registration (not withdrawal) should be enough to stop most re-registrations. I imagine most gamblers who get to the stage of self exclusion are aware of KYC, so there would be no point in registering knowing for a fact it will be picked up pretty much instantly.

I can tell you that heavy addicts will find an easy way around it, e.g. registering in their brothers/friends/etc name and deal then with the KYC when they make it to a withdrawal.

Funnily enough real addicts always dream to make a good win but rarely withdraw unless it is a substantial amount, and even then they don't always do it or only hesitantly. They just use the balance to get more adrenaline kicks, dreaming of an even bigger win while losing it all.

The only thing that works is for example the Bank ID with Trustly like in Germany and Sweden or a similar ID that will identify a player at registration. Plus it would make KYC instant. No deposits should be allowed until KYC is complete and you won't have a problem with addicts trying to register with changed details.

But then casinos do not like that as they are so scared that people will run away and play somewhere else where they can deposit and might never return.

 

[interlog]

Of course Gamstop works. I registered for it back in May of last year. I checked and can't log into any of the casinos that I have accounts with. Not sure how the detection of new registrations work as I haven't tried that, but it is my understanding that an instant check is made against the Gamstop database and if the details match, then no account can be opened.

But, if the problem gambler wants to cheat the system by supplying effectively false and fraudulent details, then all I will say is that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink it. And if such fraudulent accounts are subsequently detected and the problem gambler wants to get a refund of deposits, then there should be no obligation on the casino to refund the gambler. Instead the casino should donate the gamblers losses to charity.

As for the people featured in that BBC article, attention seekers by the look of it. It is all societies fault, never theirs. Think of the children please somebody!

 

[steveh35]

Bbc are claiming a

Of course Gamstop works. I registered for it back in May of last year. I checked and can't log into any of the casinos that I have accounts with. Not sure how the detection of new registrations work as I haven't tried that, but it is my understanding that an instant check is made against the Gamstop database and if the details match, then no account can be opened.

But, if the problem gambler wants to cheat the system by supplying effectively false and fraudulent details, then all I will say is that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink it. And if such fraudulent accounts are subsequently detected and the problem gambler wants to get a refund of deposits, then there should be no obligation on the casino to refund the gambler. Instead the casino should donate the gamblers losses to charity.

As for the people featured in that BBC article, attention seekers by the look of it. It is all societies fault, never theirs. Think of the children please somebody!

bbc are claiming a reporter from salford visited about 30 bookmakers in hull and only half of the staff recognised him and threw him out others offered him a cup of tea and one a loyalty card with £30 free bets. So the bbc claiming staff should be able to recognise any face of a gamstop user if they have travelled over from Salford to Hull.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

This is a nothing story IMO.

“I used false details and it didn’t detect me”

Erm. Of course.

 

[goatwack]

They look like a pair of berks, most likely wheeled out for these stories like Dumb & Dumber

No different to someone like Susanna Reid holding a copy of Call of Duty on BBC Breakfast with a pained expression, like it was responsible for destroying our children's innocence

And much like that, it's not the product itself but people not adhering to guidelines. So if weak-ass parents can't say no to their pestering kids when it's an 18-rated game, then neither should anyone blame Gamstop for their own gambling impulse weakness, and use it as a convenient scapegoat. Twats.

 

[colinsunderland]

I can tell you that heavy addicts will find an easy way around it, e.g. registering in their brothers/friends/etc name and deal then with the KYC when they make it to a withdrawal.

Funnily enough real addicts always dream to make a good win but rarely withdraw unless it is a substantial amount, and even then they don't always do it or only hesitantly. They just use the balance to get more adrenaline kicks, dreaming of an even bigger win while losing it all.

The only thing that works is for example the Bank ID with Trustly like in Germany and Sweden or a similar ID that will identify a player at registration. Plus it would make KYC instant. No deposits should be allowed until KYC is complete and you won't have a problem with addicts trying to register with changed details.

But then casinos do not like that as they are so scared that people will run away and play somewhere else where they can deposit and might never return.

Yes of course people will always get round it, but for those who don't go to those lengths, simple postcode lookups can massively reduce the amount of people trying it on. I've seen people get around '1 account' rules by simply changing the format of the address, say they live at 152 NE37 8QJ, they will enter the address as 15 2 NE3 78QJ and amazingly some systems don't pick it up. Postcode lookup the address is auto entered, so instantly an address is matched to a SE'd customer then further checks be carried out before allowing them to deposit. Simple, but then the casino will miss out on the extra revenue, so no real incentive to do that!

 

[snorky510238]

I know gamblers are good at ‘hiding things’ but come on surely something happened prior to being sent to prison. As far as I am aware the police don’t just turn up one day and say your going to down for 2 years. If he had stolen from the company he worked for there would surely have been a court case. It must have made the local news, newspapers etc.

 

[SteveBr]

I know gamblers are good at ‘hiding things’ but come on surely something happened prior to being sent to prison. As far as I am aware the police don’t just turn up one day and say your going to down for 2 years. If he had stolen from the company he worked for there would surely have been a court case. It must have made the local news, newspapers etc.

There's more info here:

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[mack341]

The thing is where a casino has a high depositer, losing a fair sum of money, from a business point of view they're overjoyed so may not want to carry out the necessary checks unless he suddenly wins big.

I don't know how it happened, probably spunking back some big wins, but ladbrokes emailed me once to say I was now a VIP

Anyway it was plague upon my house, every time I logged in to do a bit of bobby smallrolling, just in the middle of playing, up would pop the live chat box unrequested with an agent pestering me. 'how are doing today Mr ..., can I interest you in today's offer' as if I was some sort of oil sheik with unlimited funds. It was every time I logged in so it sometimes takes two to tango.

After a month of my polite declines to spend more dough they emailed me again to say they were revoking my VIP status I was a bit narked at first, thinking VIP status once awarded should have lifetime implications but soon felt relieved not to be pestered anymore by the live chat VIP agents while doing 20p spins on giant's gold

 

[trancemonkey]

Bbc are claiming a

bbc are claiming a reporter from salford visited about 30 bookmakers in hull and only half of the staff recognised him and threw him out others offered him a cup of tea and one a loyalty card with £30 free bets. So the bbc claiming staff should be able to recognise any face of a gamstop user if they have travelled over from Salford to Hull.

Gamstop is for online casinos. Not land-based.

 

[steveh35]

Gamstop is for online casinos. Not land-based.

Bookies use Moses not gamstop

BBC Radio 5 live Investigates also found that the self-exclusion scheme for High Street bookmakers is seriously flawed.

Last year,

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from 21 betting shops in Grimsby, Lincolnshire, using the Multi-Operator Self Exclusion Scheme (MOSES).

However, he was still able to bet in 19 of them.

The operators of the scheme, the Senet Group, said lessons would be learned.

Twelve months later, a different BBC producer banned himself from 20 of the same shops in the town and was allowed to place bets in 15 of them.

'Disappointing'
The Association of British Bookmakers (ABB) said it was "disappointed" with the findings.

However, the trade association added that it was encouraged by the results of a survey of genuine participants of the scheme.

The ABB said an

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found that "83% said that it had been effective in reducing or stopping their gambling activity and 71% said they have not attempted to use their nominated betting shops since signing up".

Media captionSarah Grant, from Cardiff, talks about her battle with addiction
The Senet Group, which uses funding from bookmakers to run the scheme, said "the results of this investigation are disappointing" but insisted MOSES is an "important first step for people who genuinely want to reduce their gambling".

However, shadow culture secretary Tom Watson said the investigation demonstrated the two schemes "aren't fit for purpose".

He promised to take the BBC's findings to the government.

Labour MP Carolyn Harris, who chairs a cross-party group of MPs on gambling-related harm added: "Any system which is easily manipulated like this is not worth it - they have to be robust enough to withstand deliberate attempts to get around them."

You can hear more on 5 live Investigates at 11:00 GMT on Sunday 13 January on BBC Radio 5 Live and BBC Sounds.

 

[snorky510238]

As far as I am aware (unless things have changed) bookies only have a photograph of the Se as a means of detecting them. Bearing in mind the high turnover of staff in betting shops and shift patterns along with the fact a lot of them are relatively young and not that interested anyway as they use it as a stop gap and have no intention of making a career out of it. It’s no surprise the system doesn’t work. It’s hypocrisy at its best anyway as staff are supposed to have a quiet word with anyone they think may have a problem. From what I have seen it’s the opposite. High rollers are welcomed with a smile, offered a drink the minute they walk through the door when us lesser mortals haven’t even been acknowledged. Some staff in the industry may care but a lot of them carry out bad practice. A high roller friend of mine who lost thousands every year self excluded. He recently received a phone call from the manager asking for a price on some home improvements. Oh and by the way “your self exclusion has finished if you would like to come back in”. Bookies are desperate for trade right now as they know the reduction in stakes on the FOBTS almost certainly spells the start of the end for a lot of shops.