Self-Exclusion Shenanigans

[Ficus]

Hey everybody, I got advised by someone that this forum would be the best place to ask this sort of a question. So, here we go!

I will not (yet) publicly disclose which casino this is about. I want to hear about people's opinions first. In December '14 I sent an E-mail to the aforementioned site to permanently block access to all casino games, including the side games in the poker client (that this site also offers). Two days came the confirmation: "Please be informed that we disabled your access to our casino games, from both lobby and website."

I have a strict selection of websites on which I have not blocked casino games, and I only stick to poker and sports bets. A few months ago I was placing sports bets on the site, and on the side of the live betting section they sneaked in some mini casino games (just like almost every other bookie). Here we come to the crux of my problem. As I sometimes have problems staying away from casino games, I blocked them on this site. However, I have only today stumbled upon the E-mail I mentioned above and realised these games should have been blocked. After researching the matter, I discovered the casino did block access to the casino section of the website, however, I was still able to place bets on Blackjack, Roulette, etc. (which are, as we all know, casino games), all I had to do was play them on the Sports section as "Mini-Games".

Now, I'm not sure if this is common practice on casino sites, but if this is intentional, it is insanely unfair to the players. If this is allowed, then casinos can take advantage of a player's weakness to avoid casino games. Even if this player decides to self-exclude himself from casino games, they are still somehow available to him! On top of this, if I would have made a profit at these games,
no one can assure me that the casino would have actually paid me out, as they could say I was self-excluded from these games and voided all the bets after.

Just want to hear your guys opinions. IMO, I believe casinos should either not be allowed to do this, or the player should be fully reimbursed for any such losses. It is true that it was me who still played, however, the casino should not have let me play these games and the bets should be voided.

Would love to hear your opinions!

 

[chiya]

In my opinion, you're right. However, in my experience these cases never work.

If you win, the bets are voided.
If you don't, they're not.

It's obviously really unfair system that casinos may even in fact, abuse on purpose yet there's likely absolutely nothing you can do about it, because there's no proof of what would've happened if you in fact had won. Or in the opposite cases there's no proof what would've happened if they had lost, even though it's pretty obvious what the answer is.

This case is kinda tricky though because I don't know if the casinos can even block your access to the games through the '' mini-games '' section but if so they should have told you.

 

[Deeplay]

Without knowing the casino in question hard to say ... but if you SE say from Sky vegas as example only your SEd from all of the gambling services they offer.
And I dont see it as a site "sneaking in" games on the side. They are either there or not. In the end you have to take responsibility for your own actions. The only defense "could be"
if you exclude from BOOKIES SITE .... which has a casino then you should be blocked from the whole site. I know yonks ago when i did an SE at corals on the casino I could place
any other kind of bets roulette etc. If you had won would you have complained or hoped they paid you ? just saying ....

 

[chiya]

Without knowing the casino in question hard to say ... but if you SE say from Sky vegas as example only your SEd from all of the gambling services they offer.
And I dont see it as a site "sneaking in" games on the side. They are either there or not. In the end you have to take responsibility for your own actions. The only defense "could be"
if you exclude from BOOKIES SITE .... which has a casino then you should be blocked from the whole site. I know yonks ago when i did an SE at corals on the casino I could place
any other kind of bets roulette etc. If you had won would you have complained or hoped they paid you ? just saying ....

That's just it though. The problem with SE here is that if he had won, what would the casino do? They could fall on their '' You're SE so we won't pay you ''. How is that fair? But because he didn't win, the bets will NOT be voided. It's Win/Win for the casino either way, and that's bs.

 

[Ficus]

Thanks for the fast replies, guys.

As you mentioned, it would help if they at least mentioned they cannot block access to the mini-games, when you SE. This site offers poker, casino, sports, bingo. And you can ask them to just SE from certain sections. Problem is, I don't really see a point in this, if I want to exclude myself from casino, but I can still play casino games on the sports section. Seems absolutely hilarious to me.

Seeing you guys see such cases on a daily basis, is there any point in me arguing with the casino? Is it even worth bothering?

 

[Deeplay]

That's just it though. The problem with SE here is that if he had won, what would the casino do? They could fall on their '' You're SE so we won't pay you ''. How is that fair? But because he didn't win, the bets will NOT be voided. It's Win/Win for the casino either way, and that's bs.

Well in the end SE should only be used if you have a gambling problem. So if a person uses this but still gambles in other ways then sorry but they are not addressing the problem. But if you SE from 1 site or group you should be SE from all parts of the site. So why still allowed to gamble on other parts is a mystery at the moment. Im cynical and could be wrong but something does not sound right here. Seen it so many times a person uses SE then finds a way to gamble then comes to places such as this site complaining about the loss. No sympathy actually in cases like this sorry to say.

 

[Ficus]

Well in the end SE should only be used if you have a gambling problem. So if a person uses this but still gambles in other ways then sorry but they are not addressing the problem. But if you SE from 1 site or group you should be SE from all parts of the site. So why still allowed to gamble on other parts is a mystery at the moment. Im cynical and could be wrong but something does not sound right here. Seen it so many times a person uses SE then finds a way to gamble then comes to places such as this site complaining about the loss. No sympathy actually in cases like this sorry to say.

I can't agree with that. Seeing I actually make a living with poker, I play on many different gambling sites, and it's very comfortable to be able to SE from all other sections, but poker. I am very disciplined when it comes to poker and sports bets, but can't say the same for casino games, unfortunately.

Still, if I would agree with your statements, then why would casino sites even offer such self-exclusions? IMO, if they do offer selectional SE, they should at least work properly. If you choose to block casino games, then they should block casino games.

 

[Deeplay]

I can't agree with that. Seeing I actually make a living with poker, I play on many different gambling sites, and it's very comfortable to be able to SE from all other sections, but poker. I am very disciplined when it comes to poker and sports bets, but can't say the same for casino games, unfortunately.

Still, if I would agree with your statements, then why would casino sites even offer such self-exclusions? IMO, if they do offer selectional SE, they should at least work properly. If you choose to block casino games, then they should block casino games.

I have never heard of "selectional SE" ever ... what casino is this ? why not name them ?

 

[Ficus]

I have never heard of "selectional SE" ever ... what casino is this ? why not name them ?

Because this is a negative experience and I don't want to publicly shame them, before I hear their own opinion on this matter.

I thought these SE's are offered on almost every site? Just one example I can think of now and is huge is Bwin. This thread is not about this site, though! Here's a screenshot I made of the SE section, where you can clearly see that you can block just certain sections:

 

[Tirilej]

I've heard about it and I know that some people find it useful.
I still feel I can't really have an opinion on this. It's a tough one, but if you're offered to just see a part of the site then you have to make sure what's in there.
You can't partly self exclude, and then not tell them you still can play some games you shouldn't be able to. Maybe they are ment to be blocked for you also but something is wrong.
You need to be an adult here and take resposibility.

Do you know if the casino in question have a rep here? You could take a look and then send a message trying to talk to them. It won't hurt and then you'll know if you can continue to play there or if you should stop.
That's at least my advice. This should not be about trying to get any money back.

 

[Daniel L]

I can definitely understand what you're saying. In my opinion if you excluded from casino games then in no way should you be allowed to play, whether it's from the poker side games or Sportsbook 'mini games' that they like to throw in. I'm with quite a few who offer the exclude me from Sports, Casino, Poker, Bingo, Virtuals, etc which I think is a very good option, however as you say if you can access these from other sections & still play then this option means very little.

I would definitely raise the point with the customer services moving forward saying that you have specifically asked to be removed from whatever that should be, but would still like to use their website for this side of gambling.....however 'what happened was this, I was able to do this, even though I took responsible measures...'

 

[paul7388]

It isnt a SE its just blocking certain bits of the site.

I know why you are upset but they have blocked the different sites you asked but its a lot more difficult for them to block different features on the bits you want kept open.

For instance if i blocked all sections of a site except bingo it would be very hard for the site to block the mini games in the bingo section. They block the sites you dont want but whatever sections you want kept open you have to accept what ever contents in those sections.

You could always tell them that reason you want slots removed is because you are addicted to them and lose all your money on them. Sure they would then block you completely from whole site.

Sorry but if you like sports and poker then unless you have a gambling problem you should be able to avoid playing mini games at the side. If you cant then id go to a site that only has poker or a sports site where the slots are totally seperate.

 

[Deeplay]

Because this is a negative experience and I don't want to publicly shame them, before I hear their own opinion on this matter.

I thought these SE's are offered on almost every site? Just one example I can think of now and is huge is Bwin. This thread is not about this site, though! Here's a screenshot I made of the SE section, where you can clearly see that you can block just certain sections:

On the site in question as pointed out this is not SE but just blocking , SE as per the terms means no deposits taken for any part of the site you used as example. In the end if you cant control your gambling no matter poker sports or slots then you should stop. And again if you had won would you have complained ? looking to get your money back dont help. You played you lost and now your looking for a way to recoup those losses. You in the end made the choice to deposit and press spin. No one forced you.