Self exclusion refunds

Beeswax

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Location
Sunderland
If I signed up to a casino then subsequently I found out that the casino was linked to another casino that I had self excluded from, what happens with deposits I’ve made there? Do they have to refund them or just any funds left in account ?
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
If I signed up to a casino then subsequently I found out that the casino was linked to another casino that I had self excluded from, what happens with deposits I’ve made there? Do they have to refund them or just any funds left in account ?
In your case just your balance. They would have paid you if you had won too so it could have worked in your favour.
 

Beeswax

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 3, 2018
Location
Sunderland
I like gambling that’s why I signed up, I’ve probably got a problem, Also Colin they said in a email the wouldn’t have paid in winnings they would have donated it to charity
 

Rebecca_BGO

Head of Customer Services & Responsible Gaming
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Location
United Kingdom
If I signed up to a casino then subsequently I found out that the casino was linked to another casino that I had self excluded from, what happens with deposits I’ve made there? Do they have to refund them or just any funds left in account ?
Hi Guys :)

Hopefully I can advise a bit here..

A Self-Exclusion is a joint commitment between yourself and the Casino. The Casino should endeavor to stop you from gambling with them, and you agree on your part not to attempt to re-open any further accounts.

Many Casinos will have systems in place that would prevent you from registering if you already have a Self-Excluded account, bear in mind the details would need to match (or at least most of them).

Regarding a refund - it would be dealt with on a case by case basis. If you have created an account using completely different details then the Casino would have not been able to detect you, therefore would be a breach on your behalf and no refund would be due (but remaining balance would be returned of course) - if the account details are the same as the original, then would be a clear issue with their system and a refund of deposits would due.
 

EkJR

Senior Member
MM
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Feb 3, 2018
Location
Glasgow
Volt casino excluded me themselves on a "management decision" at the time although sent me an offer through and I was able to open up another account and deposit funds. Not a very good exclusion system and they obviously refused deposits being returned.
 

EkJR

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Location
Glasgow
Hi Guys :)

Hopefully I can advise a bit here..

A Self-Exclusion is a joint commitment between yourself and the Casino. The Casino should endeavor to stop you from gambling with them, and you agree on your part not to attempt to re-open any further accounts.

Many Casinos will have systems in place that would prevent you from registering if you already have a Self-Excluded account, bear in mind the details would need to match (or at least most of them).

Regarding a refund - it would be dealt with on a case by case basis. If you have created an account using completely different details then the Casino would have not been able to detect you, therefore would be a breach on your behalf and no refund would be due (but remaining balance would be returned of course) - if the account details are the same as the original, then would be a clear issue with their system and a refund of deposits would due.
And here is where the process currently falls down. What if someone has a new email address and phone number? Casinos are using this at the moment to suggest they can't detect an SE player because it's different details. There has to surely be basic info checked like name, age, address for instance or an identity check early on.
 

Rebecca_BGO

Head of Customer Services & Responsible Gaming
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Location
United Kingdom
And here is where the process currently falls down. What if someone has a new email address and phone number? Casinos are using this at the moment to suggest they can't detect an SE player because it's different details. There has to surely be basic info checked like name, age, address for instance or an identity check early on.
Definitely, a lot of Casino's use that information PLUS the name, date of birth and full name as naturally people change their phone/number and email.
 

EkJR

Senior Member
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Location
Glasgow
Definitely, a lot of Casino's use that information PLUS the name, date of birth and full name as naturally people change their phone/number and email.
This is what I mean though, there has to surely be a standard process introduced. Gambling is highly addictive so players are going to try to get round things. The only way I can see it working is an identity check at signup.
 

Rebecca_BGO

Head of Customer Services & Responsible Gaming
Joined
Nov 26, 2018
Location
United Kingdom
This is what I mean though, there has to surely be a standard process introduced. Gambling is highly addictive so players are going to try to get round things. The only way I can see it working is an identity check at signup.
I agree, some people can add a Self-Exclusion on their account but will still wish to continue gambling and attempt to create duplicate accounts.
I can't speak for all Casinos of course, but Bgo uses a Third Party check upon first deposit to verify Customers for regulatory requirements, which matches details entered to databases like the Electoral Roll for example. If someone has created an account with only a different email address, and all the other details match then they would be blocked from registering.

Again, I can only advise on our systems - I am unable to advise of other Casinos unfortunately but I completely understand where you are coming from. There is definitely increased interest from the UKGC regarding Responsible Gaming which is positive.
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
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Location
Malta
Many casinos use certain triggers to automatically block your account when creating it if certain details are matching, if there is SE account with same name, country and date of birth, it will be quite strong trigger, these are not really matching with players too often and if that happen, then these can be looked case by case by requesting KYC and by asking previous addresses, phone numbers, emails etc... If player is not honest in these, then there is not much more what can be done from casinos side.
 

EkJR

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Feb 3, 2018
Location
Glasgow
Many casinos use certain triggers to automatically block your account when creating it if certain details are matching, if there is SE account with same name, country and date of birth, it will be quite strong trigger, these are not really matching with players too often and if that happen, then these can be looked case by case by requesting KYC and by asking previous addresses, phone numbers, emails etc... If player is not honest in these, then there is not much more what can be done from casinos side.
Agree to a point. However we hear all the time about casinos who promote responsible gambling and don't want to take money from excluded players but are happy to do so if they have a digit wrong on sign up of the 2nd account. For me that is basically stealing as you can bet that the casino would not allow a withdrawal of any winnings and return deposits if it went the other way.
 

Slottery

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PABnoaccred
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If you have all same details, name, address, email, phone number, date of birth and there is one digit wrong in one of these, then most of systems will recognize you. If you have totally different email, phone number, changed address and add your name or date of birth incorrectly that really is almost mission impossible to recognize, there are some names which are very common in every country so entering correct details really in my opinion drops to players responsibility when you create account.

Also if your credit card or other non anonymous payment method have been used in other account, that's also most probably flag you at some point. There are unfortunately many players who are adding "accidentally" their details incorrect, not only one character different than self excluded account and then just want refund their deposits. I don't believe that players would like to start to send dna samples to casinos to make it at least almost bullet proof, as mentioned earlier in this topic, also player have some responsibilities and creating account with fake details is against all casinos rules and in such a cases there will no be refunds.
 

EkJR

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Glasgow
If you have all same details, name, address, email, phone number, date of birth and there is one digit wrong in one of these, then most of systems will recognize you. If you have totally different email, phone number, changed address and add your name or date of birth incorrectly that really is almost mission impossible to recognize, there are some names which are very common in every country so entering correct details really in my opinion drops to players responsibility when you create account.

Also if your credit card or other non anonymous payment method have been used in other account, that's also most probably flag you at some point. There are unfortunately many players who are adding "accidentally" their details incorrect, not only one character different than self excluded account and then just want refund their deposits. I don't believe that players would like to start to send dna samples to casinos to make it at least almost bullet proof, as mentioned earlier in this topic, also player have some responsibilities and creating account with fake details is against all casinos rules and in such a cases there will no be refunds.
You see the point im making though. Say you deposit 1000 and win 3000. Try and withdraw and the casino tells you no, your account was excluded so we are returning deposits. Conversely, if you deposits 1000 and lose it but have an exclusion discovered should you not expect the same treatment? It has to work both ways. There will be very clear cases where fraudulent behaviour from a player is clear like your examples above. However, if the player say used same names, address, age, deposit method and different phone and email this surely has to be looked at. The main point is that there are so many different practices out there. If there is a country specific set of rules governing these cases then there is no dubiety and not different answer dependant on who you speak to. I have already made this clear in a response to the UKGC consultation recently.
 

Slottery

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PABnoaccred
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Volt casino excluded me themselves on a "management decision" at the time although sent me an offer through and I was able to open up another account and deposit funds. Not a very good exclusion system and they obviously refused deposits being returned.
Like in other thread you opened, why in earth you created another account as that's really not ok in any casino i've been playing? You might receive some offer after your self exclusion (or was this just closure if it was management decision?) if that sending list is created just before your account was closed. If they sent you an offer, it most probably was for account you already had there and was sent to email/phone number you had registered there so assume that if you after that created other account you wouldn't be able to claim that offer? Were you able to use same details in registering than you received your offer? That shouldn't be possible to use same email and phone number in two accounts.
 

EkJR

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Location
Glasgow
Like in other thread you opened, why in earth you created another account as that's really not ok in any casino i've been playing? You might receive some offer after your self exclusion (or was this just closure if it was management decision?) if that sending list is created just before your account was closed. If they sent you an offer, it most probably was for account you already had there and was sent to email/phone number you had registered there so assume that if you after that created other account you wouldn't be able to claim that offer? Were you able to use same details in registering than you received your offer? That shouldn't be possible to use same email and phone number in two accounts.
This is completely different and was some time ago when they first opened in the UK. Different email address was used for the 2nd account but again same details. It wasn't an SE issue, it's just that they banned me and then I was able to open another account with one detail changed. I'm not desperately trying yo reclaim deposits because it's not under SE rules unlike the other case, but more because the checks they must be doing are not capturing previous info.
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
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You see the point im making though. Say you deposit 1000 and win 3000. Try and withdraw and the casino tells you no, your account was excluded so we are returning deposits. Conversely, if you deposits 1000 and lose it but have an exclusion discovered should you not expect the same treatment? It has to work both ways. There will be very clear cases where fraudulent behaviour from a player is clear like your examples above. However, if the player say used same names, address, age, deposit method and different phone and email this surely has to be looked at. The main point is that there are so many different practices out there. If there is a country specific set of rules governing these cases then there is no dubiety and not different answer dependant on who you speak to. I have already made this clear in a response to the UKGC consultation recently.
Posted to other thread as well were you posted, but did you use same name, address, date of birth and payment method in your new account? Only email and phone number change should be spotted, don't know their practices. You also stated that you received offer right after your exclusion, wouldn't it be quite clear that offer was to that account you had previously and no non existing account you didn't have (as it's hard to send you anything to phone/email what they don't have)? If you wouldn't have gambling problems, i would make little bet with you what UKGC decide if they look at this case and information you posted here is 100% correct.
 

EkJR

Senior Member
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Feb 3, 2018
Location
Glasgow
Posted to other thread as well were you posted, but did you use same name, address, date of birth and payment method in your new account? Only email and phone number change should be spotted, don't know their practices. You also stated that you received offer right after your exclusion, wouldn't it be quite clear that offer was to that account you had previously and no non existing account you didn't have (as it's hard to send you anything to phone/email what they don't have)? If you wouldn't have gambling problems, i would make little bet with you what UKGC decide if they look at this case and information you posted here is 100% correct.
As replied in other thread on Volt these things are completely unrelated.
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
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Location
Malta
Were able to open account with exactly same name, date of birth and address? Really recommend you to register yourself to Gamstop as you really seem to have issues as you state that you keep making multiple accounts to many different casinos by using different phone number and email addresses.
 

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