Self Exclusion - Major flaws

AR1886

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Location
Scotland
I'm only three weeks off my latest relapse, so I'm certainly not in any position to be smug, though I've seen a lot of threads that I can really relate to on here and thought I'd add my experience.

GamStop is brilliant, it puts the foundations in place for those trying to kick their habit, though it's absolutely not the final step - it's merely part of the battle.

Changing my bank to Monzo has made a massive difference and I've found a lot of comfort and wisdom in the advice on these forums as well as social media.

My final week's of gambling involved me using my partner's name, a made up DOB and then the rest my details to open accounts. I was desperate for a bet, I wasn't really considering what would happen if I had to verify for withdrawals. In all but one situation I lost all my deposits, in the other I was refunded my deposits and not the winnings.

I'm now certain that accounts should have to be verified before deposits, it would quite simply eradicate the majority of the problems constantly coming up around exclusion. You have to provide your identification docs or your account isn't opened and you can't gamble. Instead what is happening is problem gamblers are finding subtle ways round their exclusions and the bookmakers subsequently have a way out whether that be not refunding deposits or paying winnings.

I'm still continuing to pursue monies with 10Bet, 888sport, Karamba and BoyleSports with similar circumstances, I've had great help from a member of this forum with Karamba, though these cases are difficult and time consuming.

I've decided to start a case study on self exclusion and present my findings, so it would be good to hear from those who have had a similar experience in regards to this - if I can make a small difference to avoiding these issues continuing to be a massive issue I'd be delighted.

All the best folks!
 
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AR1886

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Location
Scotland
It would be interesting to hear what different policies and processes bookmakers are quoting in regards to this.

BoyleSports have told me that five out of six details must be a match, which quite frankly is as close to neglect as possible. Bet365 seem to have very sophisticated systems and are actively ensuring their duty of care is met.

It’s an easy get out to say ‘Well you used different details, but when there’s some matching details, these conversations shouldn’t be happening.
 

irish-ranger

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Location
United Kingdom
So you excluded via gamstop then proceeded to open accounts using duff details and lost now your expecting refunds under the pretence how easy it was to open accounts with mix match details.
Would you apply for a passport using duff details and expect to get it (no) why do u think this is any different.
 

Mr_Slot5

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
Before I gamstopped I was thinking I might have a gambling problem because I wanted to take a break and couldn't be sure I wouldn't be tempted to deposit.

Reading some of these crazy stories about people making up accounts with falsified details just to make a bet makes me feel pretty confident that any issue I did have was minor compared to some... I gamstopped and left it at that.
 

TheSam469

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Malta
Seems like this has become a hobby of many gamblers. Using fake details to circumvent Gamstop and expecting refunds once a loss occurs and posting it on here is quite ridiculous.

It's easy to get around Gamstop, it's been noted in the forum on many threads. Some have gone to extremes to prove its garbage. But if you have a problem, Gamstop is only a small item in a toolbox of opportunities to get yourself back on the road to recovery.
 

AR1886

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Location
Scotland
So you excluded via gamstop then proceeded to open accounts using duff details and lost now your expecting refunds under the pretence how easy it was to open accounts with mix match details.
Would you apply for a passport using duff details and expect to get it (no) why do u think this is any different.

I don’t think it’s the same at all, unless I’ve missed the epidemic of those addicted to applying for passports...

Duff details isn’t correct either as many of the details were correct. Now there’s absolutely no illusions that there’s culpability on my side here, but that applies to the bookmakers too surely?
 

AR1886

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Location
Scotland
It's easy to get around Gamstop, it's been noted in the forum on many threads. Some have gone to extremes to prove its garbage. But if you have a problem, Gamstop is only a small item in a toolbox of opportunities to get yourself back on the road to recovery.

I absolutely don’t think it’s garbage, I’ve said as much in my post. I also explained the additional steps I’ve taken personally.

Watching these threads reappear has left me under little doubt though that checks should be done prior to deposits being approved, there’s not one bookmaker I’ve seen providing an answer to why that isn’t the case.
 

TheSam469

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Malta
I absolutely don’t think it’s garbage, I’ve said as much in my post. I also explained the additional steps I’ve taken personally.

Watching these threads reappear has left me under little doubt though that checks should be done prior to deposits being approved, there’s not one bookmaker I’ve seen providing an answer to why that isn’t the case.
I agree that verification should take place before making a single deposit. But until the rules change, it's down to the single individual.
 

AR1886

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Location
Scotland
Maybe I’m trying too hard to justify this thread here, but using my own experiences coupled with others hopefully can eradicate a lot of these threads.

I know myself that addiction is bloody difficult, I’m winning the battle for now, but in desperation I’m not the most rational and when the addiction kicks in then it’s dangerous.

If I can send off some materials to the UKGC and some of the bookmakers referenced in mine and others’ posts, then maybe the policies will be looked at down the line.
 

TheSam469

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Malta
Your single aim right now is to get better, and not go on a crusade to get something changed, which to be honest, doesn't look like happening. Gathering information from different places will only feed the addiction within.

Just stay away, keep strong
 

AR1886

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Location
Scotland
Appreciate that mate, I’ve not got any means to gamble now, with the extra measures I’ve put in place. I feel very strongly about this though, this isn’t people free-rolling - they have absolutely no chance of winning.
 

Bloatgoat

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Somewhere
I wonder if you take all these players that are excluded, that signed up using different aliasses and still played, how much revenue that in general is. When you know that number, you learn about the 'interest' of casino's that so call work with instances that should protect people from still gambling while being excluded.

As long as people are depositting and being stupid, the rules are not going to change.
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
When was this happening? Because from May 7th, accounts do have to be verified. At the very least, they have to verify your age and address before allowing you to deposit. This doesn't mean you will get a refund if they breached their license conditions and allowed you to deposit though.

I am with you on this. You should get a refund if they never would have paid out winnings anyway. You're a problem gambler and this is something they should expect. They should be refunding you. They do not need to by law though from my understanding.

I am finding many casinos just do not care about the new regulations regarding verification. Even the very highly rated trada casino allowed me to deposit without verifying me the other month and then doubled down on it when I contacted them pointing out the flaw. I expected them to just apologise and fix the mistake but they completely denied it and made up their own laws regarding it. Because of this, it would not surprise me if all of those casinos you mentioned breached license conditions and allowed you to deposit without verifying your age and address.
 
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Conor@Trada

Moved on from Trada Casino
Joined
Jan 11, 2017
Location
Ireland
When was this happening? Because from May 7th, accounts do have to be verified. At the very least, they have to verify your age and address before allowing you to deposit. This doesn't mean you will get a refund if they breached their license conditions and allowed you to deposit though.

I am with you on this. You should get a refund if they never would have paid out winnings anyway. You're a problem gambler and this is something they should expect. They should be refunding you. They do not need to by law though from my understanding.

I am finding many casinos just do not care about the new regulations regarding verification. Even the very highly rated trada casino allowed me to deposit without verifying me the other month and then doubled down on it when I contacted them pointing out the flaw. I expected them to just apologise and fix the mistake but they completely denied it and made up their own laws regarding it. Because of this, it would not surprise me if all of those casinos you mentioned breached license conditions and allowed you to deposit without verifying your age and address.

*EDIT*

Sorry guys, editing as I have just been informed that this case has been dealt with on another forum, and is currently pending the outcome of an IBAS complaint, as such, I am not allowed to comment on this...

Conor
 
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TravellingRecluse

Full Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Location
Nottingham
Conquestador.

Another shambles of an outfit I’m about to take to UKGC.

Guidelines state that a single source of electronic verification is not sufficient.

I get an SAR and passed the credit file part but failed the voters roll and UK identity register ones. Emails with the topic “verify your account” but they insist these emails and the requested docs are for AML purposes, after just £150 worth of deposits. Total crooks
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
*EDIT*

Sorry guys, editing as I have just been informed that this case has been dealt with on another forum, and is currently pending the outcome of an IBAS complaint, as such, I am not allowed to comment on this...

Conor

To be clear, IBAS do not deal with regulatory issues. You passing me on to them is rather pointless. Surely you know they're not going to deal with a regulatory issue? They agree your actions on this matter are very concerning but have no power to do anything. UKGC agree your actions on this matter are concerning too. I can provide you with both emails if you wish.

Every exchange in public on this is you saying you cannot comment on this. Just admit your mistake, fix it and move on. As I said before, you do not need to refund me. I just want you to admit your system made a mistake.

EDIT: To be clear, I think you are a great and trustworthy casino outside of this. You go above and beyond the minimum that is expected of you. I always rate casinos that allow withdrawals to be locked in. It is just this one issue.
 
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AR1886

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Location
Scotland
When was this happening? Because from May 7th, accounts do have to be verified. At the very least, they have to verify your age and address before allowing you to deposit. This doesn't mean you will get a refund if they breached their license conditions and allowed you to deposit though.

I am with you on this. You should get a refund if they never would have paid out winnings anyway. You're a problem gambler and this is something they should expect. They should be refunding you. They do not need to by law though from my understanding.

I am finding many casinos just do not care about the new regulations regarding verification. Even the very highly rated trada casino allowed me to deposit without verifying me the other month and then doubled down on it when I contacted them pointing out the flaw. I expected them to just apologise and fix the mistake but they completely denied it and made up their own laws regarding it. Because of this, it would not surprise me if all of those casinos you mentioned breached license conditions and allowed you to deposit without verifying your age and address.

Sadly it seems very much like a losing battle, the don’t care impression you are getting is exactly what I’ve got too.

Communicating with those that bother to even reply is so difficult. The arrogance and smugness especially.
 

Bloatgoat

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Somewhere
Casino's on one hand dont care, players on the other hand, are not forced with a gun point blank pointed to their heads to deposit. It's like you deposit and head on to play, to like come back at the casino and state once you lost that you want a refund for breaking the rules. But ofcourse if you won you want to be paid out, are'nt you?
 

AR1886

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Location
Scotland
No, I don’t recall any guns being pointed at my head that’s very true. However if you’d read the thread you’d see a few strong accounts of problem gambling.

You’ll also see it stated that not once have I been paid out when I’ve won. Sorry to burst your misconceptions though.
 

Moom

Newbie member
Joined
Aug 9, 2019
Location
UK
Casino's on one hand dont care, players on the other hand, are not forced with a gun point blank pointed to their heads to deposit. It's like you deposit and head on to play, to like come back at the casino and state once you lost that you want a refund for breaking the rules. But ofcourse if you won you want to be paid out, are'nt you?

But the casino would not have paid out. You are talking about addiction here. A very easy method that casinos could but do not do is verify payment methods on deposit for self excluded accounts. This could be done, but isn't. There are some casinos that to verify the name on a card/ewallet account but the vast majority of them do not.

If the casino would not have paid out a win then refund. Very simple. Problem gamblers are apart of this industry and it is their duty to look out and deal with them.
 

Bloatgoat

Senior Member
webby
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Somewhere
This happens in the USA, CA too, where people are being excluded for whatever reasons, but they are still free to go in undetected, play, and be rejected the moment they would have won a handpay. On one hand i agree that verification upon signup should be possible. If a casino has a staff online from 08:00 untill 01:00 it's possible to do quick verifications as well. But, if the future holds that nobody could play without a verification first, you will get a streak of rogue casino's that do accept players without signup.

The real problem, is the problem gambler. If he or she thinks they have a serious issue, they really should be put out of any financial responsibility for a while, that means no access to funds, no access to secret hidden cards. Like if you really want to stop, you can do it. But it has to come from deep inside of you. Otherwise it will fuck you over and over and over again till the point you are left with nothing. Perhaps THEN a light bulb shines on about the problems you really have.

Yes casino's are not honest either, but that does'nt mean that the actual player himself is free from any responsilibity related to problem gambling. If they woud'nt make the stupid games so addicting, the new breed of problem gamblers woud'nt be facing this so quickly in their life.
 

AR1886

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 15, 2019
Location
Scotland
Nobody is hiding from their part in this and you know what? I’m sick of seeing people saying they are sick of these threads or of people taking no responsibility because I frankly don’t see that in most instances. Most of us with issues are battling them and working hard to do so. Though it’s awful that there’s so little responsibility shown or taken by the casinos themselves, they put more effort into dismissing the customer than they do preventing the situations arising.
 
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