Self exclusion issue

rogertb

Newbie member
PABaccred
PABnononaccred
PABinit
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Location
UK
Hi chaps not a biggie but I wanted a "Break" so emailed videoslots and asked for a "4 week break", stupidly (or so it seems now) I mentioned "self exclusion" in the subject line of the mail this made them swing into a 6 month mode and it seems there is nothing they or I can do about it BECAUSE I mentioned "self exclusion" ... not realising the ramifications of these two little words .... is this the way it is ? At least this will be a warning to anyone who, like me, doesn't understand some of the terminology !
 

DANB9191

Experienced Member
Joined
May 14, 2015
Location
United Kingdom
Hi chaps not a biggie but I wanted a "Break" so emailed videoslots and asked for a "4 week break", stupidly (or so it seems now) I mentioned "self exclusion" in the subject line of the mail this made them swing into a 6 month mode and it seems there is nothing they or I can do about it BECAUSE I mentioned "self exclusion" ... not realising the ramifications of these two little words .... is this the way it is ? At least this will be a warning to anyone who, like me, doesn't understand some of the terminology !

I would have done it for 5 years with these :oops:
 

goatwack

I’ll have the cleavage, I mean the special
CAG
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
I was aware that self-excluding could cause problems further down the line, never did I imagine that merely uttering those two magical words could cause such headaches.

I'll be sure not to mention SE in any conversation. Although if I wanted to take a lenghty break from a casino I'd likely just not deposit there or close the account outright. I have yet to do that (yet) but I'm sure that brings its own set of problems too with associated sister sites and the like :mad:
 

Deeplay

New World Order
webmeister
CAG
mm1
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Location
The biG Eu
I was aware that self-excluding could cause problems further down the line, never did I imagine that merely uttering those two magical words could cause such headaches.

I'll be sure not to mention SE in any conversation. Although if I wanted to take a lenghty break from a casino I'd likely just not deposit there or close the account outright. I have yet to do that (yet) but I'm sure that brings its own set of problems too with associated sister sites and the like :mad:

They have to adhere to the rules laid down with regards to responsible gambling. So although an error they dont have a choice. And dont seem them being able to reverse this now. When you are in SE you are in SE and nothing will change that. Unless playing at a casino who dont give a toss about regulations. Many other great places you can depo at though ;-) :thumbsup:
 

Deeplay

New World Order
webmeister
CAG
mm1
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Location
The biG Eu
I would have done it for 5 years with these :oops:

Well the slots play the same at Video Slots as they do every other casino. Zero difference but the bonus structure is not for everyone even though I feel its the best built in comps program on the net.
Not a place for 100% bonus hunters I know but everything else about Vslots is first rate. :thumbsup:
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
- Firstly, VS provides a self-set RG console in your Profile. There you can chose the type and length of your break or SE.
- Secondly, any gambler could send a SE email to please his wife/partner/etc (e.g. wife stands next to him) and then try to have it removed later
- Thirdly, VS has to act according to the UKGC regulations, the soon the words SE are said/written/received they have to implement the minimum term, which is 6 months.
 

rogertb

Newbie member
PABaccred
PABnononaccred
PABinit
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Location
UK
Hi I understand all this ... but at no time did a message pop up saying "you will be excluded for 6 months" ... I wanted an exclusiion for 4 WEEKS .... I'm really not too pissed about this (though I do have £30 cash back sitting in my account) ... oh well ... as it happens I really like VS ... I just needed to have few weeks away from the site so that I could raise some money to give them !
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Hi I understand all this ... but at no time did a message pop up saying "you will be excluded for 6 months" ... I wanted an exclusiion for 4 WEEKS .... I'm really not too pissed about this (though I do have £30 cash back sitting in my account) ... oh well ... as it happens I really like VS ... I just needed to have few weeks away from the site so that I could raise some money to give them !

If you emailed them I'm not sure how you thought you might get a pop up, how would they know you were about to email them?
Depending on how your email was worded I would have thought they would have emailed to clarify what you actually wanted, or rang you, but VS customer service is terrible so not surprised they didn't, however once its in place I very much doubt they will reverse it, and nor should they in my view.
They should send you any money in your account on request though.
 

interlog

Meister Member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
MM
Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Location
London
As Harry said, there are lots of options available in the responsible gaming section of your profile to set a break. Not sure if you were aware of this but when (if) you go back again, I suggest you use that rather than email the casino.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
This was a failure on VS's part to read the email in it's entirety.

Let's say I had self-excluded from Crapmeister.com. So doing my due diligence I fire off an email with the reference "Self-Exclusion" to ask if this impacts my ability to play at VS. Does this mean I'd be self-excluded for merely asking about it?

Although we at CM are more aware of the ramifications of SE that many players, I cannot see any problem with locking an account while a reply is sent explaining SE is not available for 4 week period, and asking if the player is asking to TAB or would like to SE for 6 months.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
This was a failure on VS's part to read the email in it's entirety.

Let's say I had self-excluded from Crapmeister.com. So doing my due diligence I fire off an email with the reference "Self-Exclusion" to ask if this impacts my ability to play at VS. Does this mean I'd be self-excluded for merely asking about it?

Although we at CM are more aware of the ramifications of SE that many players, I cannot see any problem with locking an account while a reply is sent explaining SE is not available for 4 week period, and asking if the player is asking to TAB or would like to SE for 6 months.

Sure could have been done that way.

However, he had SE in the subject line and told them he wants to take a break of 4 weeks in the email text. As the minimum for SE is 6 months they did just that.

The UKGC is pretty clear on this one, so i see no fault on VS's side.

Just imagine he would indeed like to SE and they don't do it, but send another email and in the meantime the player blows a few K. Angry that they did not SE him as requested he takes it to the UKGC and VS gets and official warning on its license. Rather safe than sorry is what VS did in this case.
 
Last edited:

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
Sure could have been done that way.

However, he had SE in the subject line and told them he wants to take a break of 4 weeks in the email text. As the minimum for SE is 6 months they did just that.

The UKGC is pretty clear on this one, so i see no fault on VS's side.

Just imagine he would indeed like to SE and they don't do, but send another email and in the meantime the player blows a few K. Angry that they did not SE him as requested he takes it to the UKGC and VS gets and official warning on its license. Rather safe than sorry is what VS did in this case.

This is why I suggested they take the action of locking the account pending clarification. The OP may well be not the only player ever to approach a break in such a manner.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
This is why I suggested they take the action of locking the account pending clarification. The OP may well be not the only player ever to approach a break in such a manner.

Understand Jasmin. However, the UKGC is pretty clear on this. A message titled SE and the text that a break is wanted has to be actioned as a SE, no questions asked.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Understand Jasmin. However, the UKGC is pretty clear on this. A message titled SE and the text that a break is wanted has to be actioned as a SE, no questions asked.

The problem is the UKGC, they expect the average joe to use the correct legal terminology rather than "plain English". It's clear as glass that where a player mentions a "4 week break", they mean they want to use the "take a break" facility, rather than "problem gambling related self exclusion". The UKGC does make 6 months the minimum allowed period for a self exclusion request, but it also regulates the "take a break" system that allows for players wanting shorter periods.

It may well be right that where there is doubt about what the player means, the account should be locked until clarification is forthcoming, and unless the player has specifically mentioned "problem gambling", it should not automatically be set to 6 months irrespective of any shorter break specified by the player in the request.

It seems the UKGC are not in touch with the world of the player, and it is often the case that a player gets their terms muddled up, and common sense would expect CS to do what it's supposed to, help the player clarify their request so that the correct action is taken.

The downside is that making players too scared to ask for short breaks because they fear that the casino will get it wrong and implement a lengthy self exclusion with no means to correct the error could in itself cause problems related to these players not being confident that they can take short breaks as part of their control strategy, which might lead to a small number of these players not addressing a growing problem until it's impacts are so severe they have no other choice.

I am sure many players like the idea of being able to set a monthly budget, and then set a short break if they have a bad month to prevent them from overspending in trying to get a better run before they have the spare money to back it up, such as after they have been paid and they have paid all their monthly bills.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
The problem is the UKGC, they expect the average joe to use the correct legal terminology rather than "plain English". It's clear as glass that where a player mentions a "4 week break", they mean they want to use the "take a break" facility, rather than "problem gambling related self exclusion". The UKGC does make 6 months the minimum allowed period for a self exclusion request, but it also regulates the "take a break" system that allows for players wanting shorter periods.

It may well be right that where there is doubt about what the player means, the account should be locked until clarification is forthcoming, and unless the player has specifically mentioned "problem gambling", it should not automatically be set to 6 months irrespective of any shorter break specified by the player in the request.

It seems the UKGC are not in touch with the world of the player, and it is often the case that a player gets their terms muddled up, and common sense would expect CS to do what it's supposed to, help the player clarify their request so that the correct action is taken.

The downside is that making players too scared to ask for short breaks because they fear that the casino will get it wrong and implement a lengthy self exclusion with no means to correct the error could in itself cause problems related to these players not being confident that they can take short breaks as part of their control strategy, which might lead to a small number of these players not addressing a growing problem until it's impacts are so severe they have no other choice.

I am sure many players like the idea of being able to set a monthly budget, and then set a short break if they have a bad month to prevent them from overspending in trying to get a better run before they have the spare money to back it up, such as after they have been paid and they have paid all their monthly bills.

Understand your points VWM, certainly could have been handled somewhat better.

However, i don't buy the "i didn't know the TAB/SE difference" or "I'm too scared to ask for a TAB as they might be doing a SE" anymore. This has been discussed publicly so much that any player, no matter how new to online gaming, has heard of the issues and can make an informed decision.

Additionally Videoslots provides the perfect self-set RG console, where you can personally set depo/loss/session/bet limits as well as TAB/SE, all nicely explained. I do not understand why the player chose to write an unclear email.
 

cncas2123

Meister Member
Joined
May 23, 2015
Location
Belfast
Understand your points VWM, certainly could have been handled somewhat better.

However, i don't buy the "i didn't know the TAB/SE difference" or "I'm too scared to ask for a TAB as they might be doing a SE" anymore. This has been discussed publicly so much that any player, no matter how new to online gaming, has heard of the issues and can make an informed decision.

Additionally Videoslots provides the perfect self-set RG console, where you can personally set depo/loss/session/bet limits as well as TAB/SE, all nicely explained. I do not understand why the player chose to write an unclear email.

It all depends on what site you are using - a few weeks ago i took a break from Guts, specifically didnt SE, but used the option of take a break, and this was only because i was having a poor run there, which was the reason i selected for taking a break.

Guess what, all my accounts that are under the same licence as Guts are now blocked, and when i enquired why with CS, i was told because i have SE'ed at Guts. When i pointed out it was a TAB, they told me its not, its SE and i cant access the accounts until my 4 week exclusion ends.

I think we all need clarification on the interpretation of SE/TAB, players and operators alike.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Understand your points VWM, certainly could have been handled somewhat better.

However, i don't buy the "i didn't know the TAB/SE difference" or "I'm too scared to ask for a TAB as they might be doing a SE" anymore. This has been discussed publicly so much that any player, no matter how new to online gaming, has heard of the issues and can make an informed decision.

Additionally Videoslots provides the perfect self-set RG console, where you can personally set depo/loss/session/bet limits as well as TAB/SE, all nicely explained. I do not understand why the player chose to write an unclear email.

Lack of industry wide standards? If a player had been used to the system now in use at 32Red, they would HAVE to send an email because 32Red pulled all the self serve options from the lobby. 32Red said that the main reason for this was that they found players did not understand what the options were and what they meant, and were using the wrong self serve settings for the wrong purposes, hence by forcing all such requests to go via CS they could ensure that it was clear what the player wanted in terms of action.

We now have some casinos that need an email to be sent for both SE and a break, and some that have some kind of self serve system. The self serve systems are also platform specific, although they are trying to implement a standard set of options.

Public discussions have taken place at length in the better fora, but this still leaves a significant body of players who just see an array of different options and terminology, and they may well simplify it by simply asking for a specific length of break, not worrying too much about the words used. Even 4 weeks is technically a "self exclusion for 4 weeks" in just the same way that the 6 month period is a "self exclusion for 6 months". In simple terms, "self exclusion" just means that it's the player that asks for a specific period of account suspension, rather than the casino imposing it. Players do not necessarily understand that asking for a 4 week break in any way is an admission that they feel they have a "gambling problem" and need some kind of account lock, rather than simply deciding not to click on a certain desktop icon for the following 4 weeks (which is what I do). My next step on from just ignoring the icon for a while is uninstalling the software, with Microgaming Viper casinos this is just as good as a break of a week or two in a self serve TAB system, but it has the advantage that the casino cannot get confused as to my intention, they just see that I haven't deposited in a while.
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
It all depends on what site you are using - a few weeks ago i took a break from Guts, specifically didnt SE, but used the option of take a break, and this was only because i was having a poor run there, which was the reason i selected for taking a break.

Guess what, all my accounts that are under the same licence as Guts are now blocked, and when i enquired why with CS, i was told because i have SE'ed at Guts. When i pointed out it was a TAB, they told me its not, its SE and i cant access the accounts until my 4 week exclusion ends.

I think we all need clarification on the interpretation of SE/TAB, players and operators alike.

You might want to point out out to them that they are in breach of the rules then as the minimum self exclusion period is 6 months, and they cannot re-open the accounts before then under any circumstances.
You have either Self Excluded and if they open the accounts after 4 weeks they are breaking the rules, or its a TAB in which case you should be allowed to use the other sites.
 

colinsunderland

On a Break
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Sure could have been done that way.

However, he had SE in the subject line and told them he wants to take a break of 4 weeks in the email text. As the minimum for SE is 6 months they did just that.

The UKGC is pretty clear on this one, so i see no fault on VS's side.

Just imagine he would indeed like to SE and they don't do it, but send another email and in the meantime the player blows a few K. Angry that they did not SE him as requested he takes it to the UKGC and VS gets and official warning on its license. Rather safe than sorry is what VS did in this case.

Coral do exactly that.
If you tell them you wish to self exclude they lock the account and send you a form out to complete. Only when you have done that will the self exclusion period start. Not sure what would happen if you changed your mind though!
 

Oriel

Registered
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Location
Uk
You might want to point out out to them that they are in breach of the rules then as the minimum self exclusion period is 6 months, and they cannot re-open the accounts before then under any circumstances.
You have either Self Excluded and if they open the accounts after 4 weeks they are breaking the rules, or its a TAB in which case you should be allowed to use the other sites.

This exact thing happened to my at bet spin (sister site to Rizk) two days ago. Support said I couldn't join as I have SE from Dunder. I did a 4 week TAB from Dunder as wasn't very lucky there. Don't get it- didn't SE only TAB?!
 

rogertb

Newbie member
PABaccred
PABnononaccred
PABinit
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Location
UK
Yes - this was my first mail:

"Please close my account for 4 weeks. Many thanks" (though it did have "Self Exclusion" as the 'subject'

... several emails later after asking for the 4 week period to be honoured (ie NOT 6 months) ... I still get this type of reply:

"Yes this is very unfortuante, but my hands are tied. Since a self exclusion was mentioned we need to self exclude the account for a minimum of 6 months. Terribly sorry about that."
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Yes - this was my first mail:

"Please close my account for 4 weeks. Many thanks" (though it did have "Self Exclusion" as the 'subject'

... several emails later after asking for the 4 week period to be honoured (ie NOT 6 months) ... I still get this type of reply:

"Yes this is very unfortuante, but my hands are tied. Since a self exclusion was mentioned we need to self exclude the account for a minimum of 6 months. Terribly sorry about that."

VS acted here according to the UKGC regulation. They would risk an official warning on their license if they didn't action the SE.

Be more careful next time :D
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
It all depends on what site you are using - a few weeks ago i took a break from Guts, specifically didnt SE, but used the option of take a break, and this was only because i was having a poor run there, which was the reason i selected for taking a break.

Guess what, all my accounts that are under the same licence as Guts are now blocked, and when i enquired why with CS, i was told because i have SE'ed at Guts. When i pointed out it was a TAB, they told me its not, its SE and i cant access the accounts until my 4 week exclusion ends.

I think we all need clarification on the interpretation of SE/TAB, players and operators alike.

Looks like MT Secure Trade Ltd. got their procedure wrong and needs to read the UKGC regulations correctly. They say very clear:

- TAB --> up to 4 weeks, can be done per casino, not valid for any other site, be it in the same group or not.
- SE --> minimum 6 months, valid for all casinos in the group.

I find it really strange that nothing has been set for the period of 4 weeks to 6 months.

It will be interesting to see what will happen in 2017 when the UKGC plans to introduce the central RG data base. As per their plans 1 SE will exclude you from all UK licensed casinos for the set period. I bet it will be a mess at the beginning as players will be surprised and disappointed to see that suddenly they can't play at any casino for a minimum of 6 months.
 

rogertb

Newbie member
PABaccred
PABnononaccred
PABinit
Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Location
UK
In response to people who mentioned a 'form' to be filled.

The details for a break (or whatever) on the site are very comprehensive, and rightly so, but I am sure that when I went to 'my account' - 'profile' - 'responsible gambling' looking for a form (and ignoring the 6 month exclusion form deliberately), within all the stuff was a paragraph that said something like if you want a break, email support etc etc - I copied and pasted the address and that's how I applied - there didn't seem to be an easy to get to form. I cannot now check that my memory is accurate on this point 'cause I'm locked out of my account of course ....
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
In response to people who mentioned a 'form' to be filled.

The details for a break (or whatever) on the site are very comprehensive, and rightly so, but I am sure that when I went to 'my account' - 'profile' - 'responsible gambling' looking for a form (and ignoring the 6 month exclusion form deliberately), within all the stuff was a paragraph that said something like if you want a break, email support etc etc - I copied and pasted the address and that's how I applied - there didn't seem to be an easy to get to form. I cannot now check that my memory is accurate on this point 'cause I'm locked out of my account of course ....

If you go to 'My Profile' and chose on the left "Responsible Gaming" it opens the RG console, scroll down and the last 2 options are the TAB and SE features:

Capture 588.PNG
 
Top