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Self exclusion issue

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by rogertb, Jul 17, 2016.

    Jul 17, 2016
  1. rogertb

    rogertb Full Member PABnononaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    UK
    Hi chaps not a biggie but I wanted a "Break" so emailed videoslots and asked for a "4 week break", stupidly (or so it seems now) I mentioned "self exclusion" in the subject line of the mail this made them swing into a 6 month mode and it seems there is nothing they or I can do about it BECAUSE I mentioned "self exclusion" ... not realising the ramifications of these two little words .... is this the way it is ? At least this will be a warning to anyone who, like me, doesn't understand some of the terminology !
     
  2. Jul 17, 2016
  3. DANB9191

    DANB9191 Senior Member

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I would have done it for 5 years with these :oops:
     
  4. Jul 17, 2016
  5. goatwack

    goatwack Denny, two is great, but three is a crowd CAG

    Occupation:
    Stuntman
    Location:
    Londonia
    I was aware that self-excluding could cause problems further down the line, never did I imagine that merely uttering those two magical words could cause such headaches.

    I'll be sure not to mention SE in any conversation. Although if I wanted to take a lenghty break from a casino I'd likely just not deposit there or close the account outright. I have yet to do that (yet) but I'm sure that brings its own set of problems too with associated sister sites and the like :mad:
     
  6. Jul 17, 2016
  7. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    They have to adhere to the rules laid down with regards to responsible gambling. So although an error they dont have a choice. And dont seem them being able to reverse this now. When you are in SE you are in SE and nothing will change that. Unless playing at a casino who dont give a toss about regulations. Many other great places you can depo at though ;-) :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jul 17, 2016
  9. Deeplay

    Deeplay New World Order CAG mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Works For Self
    Location:
    The biG Eu
    Well the slots play the same at Video Slots as they do every other casino. Zero difference but the bonus structure is not for everyone even though I feel its the best built in comps program on the net.
    Not a place for 100% bonus hunters I know but everything else about Vslots is first rate. :thumbsup:
     
  10. Jul 17, 2016
  11. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    - Firstly, VS provides a self-set RG console in your Profile. There you can chose the type and length of your break or SE.
    - Secondly, any gambler could send a SE email to please his wife/partner/etc (e.g. wife stands next to him) and then try to have it removed later
    - Thirdly, VS has to act according to the UKGC regulations, the soon the words SE are said/written/received they have to implement the minimum term, which is 6 months.
     
  12. Jul 17, 2016
  13. rogertb

    rogertb Full Member PABnononaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    UK
    Hi I understand all this ... but at no time did a message pop up saying "you will be excluded for 6 months" ... I wanted an exclusiion for 4 WEEKS .... I'm really not too pissed about this (though I do have £30 cash back sitting in my account) ... oh well ... as it happens I really like VS ... I just needed to have few weeks away from the site so that I could raise some money to give them !
     
  14. Jul 17, 2016
  15. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    If you emailed them I'm not sure how you thought you might get a pop up, how would they know you were about to email them?
    Depending on how your email was worded I would have thought they would have emailed to clarify what you actually wanted, or rang you, but VS customer service is terrible so not surprised they didn't, however once its in place I very much doubt they will reverse it, and nor should they in my view.
    They should send you any money in your account on request though.
     
  16. Jul 17, 2016
  17. interlog

    interlog Senior Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    London
    As Harry said, there are lots of options available in the responsible gaming section of your profile to set a break. Not sure if you were aware of this but when (if) you go back again, I suggest you use that rather than email the casino.
     
  18. Jul 17, 2016
  19. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    This was a failure on VS's part to read the email in it's entirety.

    Let's say I had self-excluded from Crapmeister.com. So doing my due diligence I fire off an email with the reference "Self-Exclusion" to ask if this impacts my ability to play at VS. Does this mean I'd be self-excluded for merely asking about it?

    Although we at CM are more aware of the ramifications of SE that many players, I cannot see any problem with locking an account while a reply is sent explaining SE is not available for 4 week period, and asking if the player is asking to TAB or would like to SE for 6 months.
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Jul 17, 2016
  21. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Sure could have been done that way.

    However, he had SE in the subject line and told them he wants to take a break of 4 weeks in the email text. As the minimum for SE is 6 months they did just that.

    The UKGC is pretty clear on this one, so i see no fault on VS's side.

    Just imagine he would indeed like to SE and they don't do it, but send another email and in the meantime the player blows a few K. Angry that they did not SE him as requested he takes it to the UKGC and VS gets and official warning on its license. Rather safe than sorry is what VS did in this case.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  22. Jul 17, 2016
  23. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    This is why I suggested they take the action of locking the account pending clarification. The OP may well be not the only player ever to approach a break in such a manner.
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Jul 17, 2016
  25. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Understand Jasmin. However, the UKGC is pretty clear on this. A message titled SE and the text that a break is wanted has to be actioned as a SE, no questions asked.
     
  26. Jul 17, 2016
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The problem is the UKGC, they expect the average joe to use the correct legal terminology rather than "plain English". It's clear as glass that where a player mentions a "4 week break", they mean they want to use the "take a break" facility, rather than "problem gambling related self exclusion". The UKGC does make 6 months the minimum allowed period for a self exclusion request, but it also regulates the "take a break" system that allows for players wanting shorter periods.

    It may well be right that where there is doubt about what the player means, the account should be locked until clarification is forthcoming, and unless the player has specifically mentioned "problem gambling", it should not automatically be set to 6 months irrespective of any shorter break specified by the player in the request.

    It seems the UKGC are not in touch with the world of the player, and it is often the case that a player gets their terms muddled up, and common sense would expect CS to do what it's supposed to, help the player clarify their request so that the correct action is taken.

    The downside is that making players too scared to ask for short breaks because they fear that the casino will get it wrong and implement a lengthy self exclusion with no means to correct the error could in itself cause problems related to these players not being confident that they can take short breaks as part of their control strategy, which might lead to a small number of these players not addressing a growing problem until it's impacts are so severe they have no other choice.

    I am sure many players like the idea of being able to set a monthly budget, and then set a short break if they have a bad month to prevent them from overspending in trying to get a better run before they have the spare money to back it up, such as after they have been paid and they have paid all their monthly bills.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Jul 17, 2016
  29. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Understand your points VWM, certainly could have been handled somewhat better.

    However, i don't buy the "i didn't know the TAB/SE difference" or "I'm too scared to ask for a TAB as they might be doing a SE" anymore. This has been discussed publicly so much that any player, no matter how new to online gaming, has heard of the issues and can make an informed decision.

    Additionally Videoslots provides the perfect self-set RG console, where you can personally set depo/loss/session/bet limits as well as TAB/SE, all nicely explained. I do not understand why the player chose to write an unclear email.
     
  30. Jul 17, 2016
  31. cncas2123

    cncas2123 Senior Member MM

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Belfast
    It all depends on what site you are using - a few weeks ago i took a break from Guts, specifically didnt SE, but used the option of take a break, and this was only because i was having a poor run there, which was the reason i selected for taking a break.

    Guess what, all my accounts that are under the same licence as Guts are now blocked, and when i enquired why with CS, i was told because i have SE'ed at Guts. When i pointed out it was a TAB, they told me its not, its SE and i cant access the accounts until my 4 week exclusion ends.

    I think we all need clarification on the interpretation of SE/TAB, players and operators alike.
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Jul 17, 2016
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Lack of industry wide standards? If a player had been used to the system now in use at 32Red, they would HAVE to send an email because 32Red pulled all the self serve options from the lobby. 32Red said that the main reason for this was that they found players did not understand what the options were and what they meant, and were using the wrong self serve settings for the wrong purposes, hence by forcing all such requests to go via CS they could ensure that it was clear what the player wanted in terms of action.

    We now have some casinos that need an email to be sent for both SE and a break, and some that have some kind of self serve system. The self serve systems are also platform specific, although they are trying to implement a standard set of options.

    Public discussions have taken place at length in the better fora, but this still leaves a significant body of players who just see an array of different options and terminology, and they may well simplify it by simply asking for a specific length of break, not worrying too much about the words used. Even 4 weeks is technically a "self exclusion for 4 weeks" in just the same way that the 6 month period is a "self exclusion for 6 months". In simple terms, "self exclusion" just means that it's the player that asks for a specific period of account suspension, rather than the casino imposing it. Players do not necessarily understand that asking for a 4 week break in any way is an admission that they feel they have a "gambling problem" and need some kind of account lock, rather than simply deciding not to click on a certain desktop icon for the following 4 weeks (which is what I do). My next step on from just ignoring the icon for a while is uninstalling the software, with Microgaming Viper casinos this is just as good as a break of a week or two in a self serve TAB system, but it has the advantage that the casino cannot get confused as to my intention, they just see that I haven't deposited in a while.
     
  34. Jul 17, 2016
  35. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    You might want to point out out to them that they are in breach of the rules then as the minimum self exclusion period is 6 months, and they cannot re-open the accounts before then under any circumstances.
    You have either Self Excluded and if they open the accounts after 4 weeks they are breaking the rules, or its a TAB in which case you should be allowed to use the other sites.
     
    1 person likes this.
  36. Jul 17, 2016
  37. colinsunderland

    colinsunderland Experienced Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    uk
    Coral do exactly that.
    If you tell them you wish to self exclude they lock the account and send you a form out to complete. Only when you have done that will the self exclusion period start. Not sure what would happen if you changed your mind though!
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Jul 17, 2016
  39. Oriel

    Oriel Full Member

    Occupation:
    Personal!
    Location:
    Uk
    This exact thing happened to my at bet spin (sister site to Rizk) two days ago. Support said I couldn't join as I have SE from Dunder. I did a 4 week TAB from Dunder as wasn't very lucky there. Don't get it- didn't SE only TAB?!
     
    1 person likes this.

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