Self Exclusion Experiences, Mistakes and Unfair Practices.

[darrgeo]

I have been online gaming for 5 years, and like many will have self-excluded in haste after a bad run or a good win, both instances impulsive acts of self-protection. I started off only playing Wagerworks, as I found they paid withdrawals fast and were attached to big names, and I always trieds to firstly pick casinos with Alderney/IOM/UK jurisdictions. I have since realized many good ones are outside of these jurisdictions, but I need to clarify Gambling Commission rules and regulations in relation to various jurisdictions.

I was under the impression that if self-excluded, the casino (if allowing you to re-register and play with the same details) should refund stakes and void winnings, i.e. setting the account at zero.

Over the years, like some on here I have read about, I have self-excluded from numerous casinos, whether won or lost. I saw it as a neat way of settling matters when I wanted to 'move on' to fresh pastures so to speak. Not have too many accounts simultaneously.

I have made 7 mistakes by not remembering old accounts and re-signing; my experiences are as follows:

(Please note all my details were the same except possible e-mail addresses...)

CORAL - As soon as I filled registration in and submitted it, it stopped me as excluded/already having a closed account. 10/10

SKY VEGAS - As above. 10/10

Quicksilver - Allowed a Friday re-registration, a weekend's play where i won £600 and played for over 16 hours in total from the same £50 deposit. Tuesday I was locked out, and rang the 0800 helpline, and was told I had had a previous account. My heart sank, but the chap told me not to worry as my cashout was already processed and couldn't be stopped, and congratulated me on playing all I did on £50! Then shut both the accounts. 10/10 (only because I was lucky they took 3 days to flag it... )

PADDY POWER - I re-registered, played for 2 hours and lost £200. Couldn't log in an hour later after stopping play, was given a message about 'duplicate/excluded player' BUT (And KUDOS to PP!) they returned/didn't collect my debit card deposits. This was what I thought should happen on proper sites if they let you back in because their systems failed. 11/10

LADBROKES - Spotted it on application and prevented sign-up. 10/10

VIRGIN CASINO - Allowed a re-sign, lost £1100 in 2 hours, took a break for 5 minutes and found myself locked out. Spoke to live chat who explained I had previously been self-excluded, and I pointed out that if that was the case they should (whether by regulation/rules or just honour) refund the stakes and void all my play. Was curtly told on live chat 'we don't give the money back'... 0/10

VICTOR CHANDLER CASIN0- Allowed me to play for 2 hours like Virgin above, losing £840. Only this time on live chat, the rep was taking the p!$$ and when I asked 'So you wouldn't have paid me had I won' he mocked me with a glib 'Yeah that's right' and I pointed out that my bets were thus void and got a sarcastic reply (how I wish I had kept a copy of the chat as it cost me as I'll explain)
I was fuming, and resorted to Barclaycard as my purchase was thus invalid, as I was playing thus on free practice credits. After weeks of arguing it seemed they agreed, and refunded me my £840. As the card was at zero and I had little to spend 840 credit on, I took it out in cash machine withdrawals, paying 2.5%. 6 days later (VC must've contested this by saying 'He paid to play and we provided the play b-s) the bloody transactions started re-debiting from my card. I obviously didn't quite prove my case BECAUSE I DIDN'T SAVE THE CHAT SESSION TO SHOW THE REP WAS MOCKING AND HAD EFFECTIVELY CONFIRMED I WAS NOT GETTING THE PROPER GAMBLE I PAID FOR -5/10

MICROGAMING ADVICE - I played Villento for a while and made a near-grand on, of all things, Cashapillar. When I had my withdrawal back in my card account, I self-excluded on the live chat. She warned me I would thus be excluded from ALL MG Casinos. She was right. None have allowed me to join since.


So, in summary. Self-Exclude in haste, and you'll run out of your preferred, quick-cashout casinos fast, and be scraping around for good payers, spending ages trawling T&c pages, for years to come.
ALWAYS keep a diary of who you have self-excluded/clsed accounts with...
Some big names have indulged in quite amateurish, inept and unfair behaviour, some have been honourable or competent in dealing with this issue. The dishonourable ones surprise me, as they apply a lose-lose to the player and via inadequate security put themselves in a position to win-win by not paying out winnigns AND retaining bets.

Surely this is bad, or unfair or plain wrong?

 

[Jasminebed]

Thanks for your candid and balanced report of your experiences.

You exclude for "self protection", and that's probably valid for you. But responsible casinos have a duty to honour player requests for exclusion, but it may mean not letting you back in.

I've only once asked for a deposit break, and it was after a win to make sure I had time to spend it instead of playing it back. Sounds like you've done the same. But I didn't ask to be excluded, just for a break.

Gambling can be a serious addiction. I think most of us gamblers have had some experience with the addictive nature of gambling.

You've excluded for your own protection, and even knowing that if you win you won't be paid, you continue to gamble. You need help that extends beyond this forum.

I'm sure another member will be along with some links, including Gamblock, that may help you manage your online gambling.

If it was one hasty period and finding it messed you up returning, I might feel differently, and again I'd thank you for your advice to act in haste and repent at leisure, as my Mom said.

If you really want to make sure you are not welcome back ever, please include that you have a gambling addiction in your reasons.

We've seen player excluded from play because they've asked for closure of accounts where they were unhappy with payment time frames, or the level of support banned from re-opening accounts at a later date. One can say things in haste that aren't really true.

Given the OP's number of self protection exclusions, I'd think it's time to go further than frontline CS. JMO.

 

[funeral979]

Im not so sure I agree here.

You say its a lose-lose situation for some of the dishonorable casinos you listed, yet at the same time, it appears you are looking for a win-win situation for yourself.

You seemed pretty satisfied that you snuck in a win at Quicksilver and were fortunate enough to get paid. And then you expect to get your money back from other casinos where you lost

 

[darrgeo]

I think you misunderstand me - I have no debt, no addiction and am an occasional player who plays with MY money not borrowed or stolen money! I self-excluded when I had finished with accounts, or got tired of the sites. It meant I would have no e-mails and other rubbish. This occurred 2-4 years ago, and I lost interest for a year or so, too busy to play for hours. When I wanted to scout around for a new site I did indeed remember some that I had excluded from, but being careful with who I join, some of the old sites ticked the boxes now as then and I genuinely had forgotten ever using them.

The self protection was perhaps too strong a term; I meant that when I won and had shown a profit from the site, I knew continuing to play would mean a loss eventually, as the more turnover you have the nearer you come to their say 97% payout which mean a certain loss - like investing in a savings account that pays minus 3% interest.......I was protecting my profit.

Some were excluded for the opposite reason, where they had slots on 'arcade mode' which mean very frequent small wins and ultra-low variance so you would never say, double a £30 deposit on a reasonably low stake and I could not see myself ever doing anything other than lose as I just had done. So exclusion was either my way of saying 'this site sucks I won't be sucked into further loss' or 'thank-you very much, new TV and a night out paid for, and that's how it will stay..'

Remember, when you are a new customer, you effectively get a 'seed' to which irrespective of which slot you choose, you will be chained (unless winning a mega JP) and will see a return of 95-98% over the long term. The trick is to take the short-term high deviations from the average (hopefully in your favour!)

I would say 2/3 of the ones I joined (I rarely took bonuses unless drip-fed in cash to me like for example PP) played 'generously' at the start, something that used to happen at one time on brand new slot machines in amusement arcades so I heard, before they levelled to their set percentage. The trick was knowing when the introductory 'feel good' was over. Sometimes I got this right and closed at a good profit, sometimes I though it would go on longer but didn't and I ended up losing. You'd be VERY surprised at the similar patterns that occurred as a new member of different casinos using the same software or platform......

What I really wanted to know, was if the casino erroneously lets you sign up with the same details, after exclusion (for whatever reason you excluded yourself) and allows you to lose money and doesn't void all bets and return stakes (like PP in my OP) are there no Gambling Commission/ ECOGRA rules that advise or compel them to do so? I'm sure I read somewhere the a code of practice that says they should.

 

[dingdingding]

What I really wanted to know, was if the casino erroneously lets you sign up with the same details, after exclusion (for whatever reason you excluded yourself) and allows you to lose money and doesn't void all bets and return stakes (like PP in my OP) are there no Gambling Commission/ ECOGRA rules that advise or compel them to do so? I'm sure I read somewhere the a code of practice that says they should.

So you self excluded for fun at more than half a dozen sites and erroneously (your mistake by forgetting your own self-exclusions) signed up at 7! of them now?

Then you win some money and happily take it, since you could there. When you lose some you expect the Casinos to pay back your deposit?

And you lost 840$ and 1100$ while taking a look whether you could erroneously (their mistake because letting you sign up after exclusion) sign up and maybe not get paid in case of a win?

Glad you don't try to cheat Casinos or have a gambling problem though

Best regards,

Gordian

 

[darrgeo]

Ok, for the benefit of the plethora of amateur psychologists, I will again simplify, hopefully to a base level they can comprehend:

A casino has a responibility to enforce SE.
A simple check of ANY one or two details, starting with the obvious of your full name and maybe phone no. will be enough to flag an application. Well, indeed it did on many examples I gave, but the security software for some was obviously written by an 11-year old ESN.

So, if they FAIL to flag, as is their responsibility, what are the regulations or codes as regards voiding of bets? Simple answer from someone with knowledge as opposed to flaming?

Please let me remind you that if I choose to spend £50 at 200 different sites or £10,000 on 1, that is MY free choice and privilege, yes?

Yes, like you and everyone else here I am down overall gaming, and have made mistakes along the way by not logging all the sites I have used, causing me some issues as I mentioned. I already admitted responibility for my errors, but what is their responsibility I politely asked?

 

[jod5413]

Ok, for the benefit of the plethora of amateur psychologists, I will again simplify, hopefully to a base level they can comprehend:

Not exactly the way to ask for info or help, ya think???

 

[chuchu59]

To the op: IMO self-exclusion is practised by casinos to protect players who return and bet on impulse. In your case, there is a feeling that you wilfully returned and made bets in a sane and orderly manner. I dont believe for a moment that you were out to cheat the casinos using 'the winner keeps profits, loser gets deposits returned thing' but surely the casinos should be protected from rogue players who use this clause to rob the casinos without exposing themselves to any risks.

 

[4 of a kind]

Did someone really start this thread or is this test by Bryan to see which members respond with flame throwers?

 

[Simmo!]

On Victor Chandler I self-excluded years ago and forgot I even had an account. I opened a new one eralier this year to test out all the new stuff they had. I was down a few hundred when they suddenly closed my account. You can guess why. They refunded all my losses immediately back to Neteller and said if I wanted to play on the old account I had to justify my change in circumstances. Top notch IMO.

On the negative side, they are the only casino I know that have no facility to change a deposit limit, even via CS. I was amazed - being Alderney licenced and all.

I've tested how self-exclusion and re-opening accounts works at quite a number of casinos and as a generalisation, the land-based entities (bookies and brands) are far stricter when it comes to this. 32Red and Bet365 stick in the memory as being particularly hard to get re-opened. Had to jump through hoops and both insisted on deposit limits being set. Several RTG casinos were quite happy to re-open with one exception: Club World who did, but after probing for info.

 

[ksech]

To the OP...
So if you win it's cheerio! But if you lose, the casino is at fault for letting you play because you had self - excluded and they should refund your deposit? So for you it's a win - win situation...
At least that is my interpretation of your post...

 

[Cleveland]

Did someone really start this thread or is this test by Bryan to see which members respond with flame throwers?

 

[Cleveland]

I'm guessing you won't be giving the money back you won at Quicksilver, even though you weren't suppose to be playing.

But

You want your loses back from other casinos because you weren't suppose to be playing. Yea I see how that works......in your favor

 

[mn001]

The only correct way for a casino to handle situations like this if they miss it on registration is to pay out if the player wins and then close the new account. If the player lose, no refund. Keeping winnings and not refunding losses is stealing IMHO.

Never heard of any of the many casinos I play at doing it any different from this. But most would spot it on registration. Not easy if it's different email, phone and adress etc so hard to blame a casino for not spotting it directly.

 

[lena1967]

Not exactly the way to ask for info or help, ya think???

haha