Self excluded shop

nani

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Location
london
guys I was a regular in a local betting shop (big company in the U.K.)
And self excluded a few months ago. After a while I began going there again and wasn’t stopped betting... I bet quite an amount and was never asked to leave the premises even though self excluded. I have emailed there head office 2 days ago and no reply, is it possible they refund me the bets I placed ? I have the slips.. surely they failed under their social responsibility duties?
 

thebigs

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Location
roscommon ireland
As an ex betting shop manager we used to receive many e-mails from our head office informing me that this and that customer had self excluded from our shops.
Some of the e-mails would show the form with the persons picture and others would not.
In theory it should work but in practice almost impossible to work unless you know the person in your own shop that self excluded.
We had cases where someone would travel quite a distance just to get their fix and bet in another town with same bookie and when they lose try to claim their losses back due to same reason as you.It is very hard for staff to manage this as you can imagine.
If you self excluded in that exact same shop you are talking about and it is the same staff then you would no question have a case as a good manager would know the customers and should know their own self excluded customers.
If you have gone to another branch then i am not sure how you will stand.
At the same time you know you are self excluded so why try and bend the rules.You know you are banned for that period so it is also up to you to stay away.
If you had won you would not complain but you are also looking for refunds.
Please get the help you probably need and also the bookie needs a kick up the arse if that rule was broken.
 

nani

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Location
london
Thanks for your reply. I will answer your points as you have experience with this.

Yes they have my photo on the form. Yes it’s that exact shop I’m excluded from. Ofcourse I shouldn’t go there but while I’m in that zone I really can’t control the urge... I guess that’s called an addiction. Yes I was a good customer in that exAct shop and have winning slips from prior to my exclusion. I just think the staff were lazy and didn’t look in the book they have with the excluded customers details and photos in. The manager should be enforcing that I think. It’s a massive company etc.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Nope, they shouldn't repay you as I see you knew very well what your doing.

Win --> run with the dosh
Lose --> complain to get lost moneys back.

Plenty of folks like you around. Sorry, no sympathy from me. Since you seem to be unable to control your urge, I would recommend to join a help program as otherwise you will be facing the same issue in the future.

But you are lucky because as per UKGC regulations they have to void all your bets since the self-exclusion and return any money/deposits if they failed their due diligence .
 

nani

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Location
london
Thanks.

Can you show me where it states that in their regulations ? I have read them but couldn’t locate that wording. Thanks
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Google Social Responsibility Code UK Gambling Commission

I think item 3, paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 plus newly added changes. But don't remember exactly.

Sorry, that might not be 100% correct as I am referring to what the UKGC calls "remote gambling". But the SR includes also non-remote gambling, so you might need to search a bit more.
 

thebigs

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2013
Location
roscommon ireland
Thanks for your reply. I will answer your points as you have experience with this.

Yes they have my photo on the form. Yes it’s that exact shop I’m excluded from. Ofcourse I shouldn’t go there but while I’m in that zone I really can’t control the urge... I guess that’s called an addiction. Yes I was a good customer in that exAct shop and have winning slips from prior to my exclusion. I just think the staff were lazy and didn’t look in the book they have with the excluded customers details and photos in. The manager should be enforcing that I think. It’s a massive company etc.

Okay with what you are telling me regarding the photo and same shop then really the shop really needs to be punished but i am not a big fan of the refund part to a customer.I think a very heavy fine should be involved and that fine should go to gambling charities that can help people like yourself and many many others who have that same problem.Do i have an addiction,yes i would say yes when it comes to slots but thankfully with no other forms of gambling but i do have a bit of control at the same time.
This case needs to be reported higher than the bookmaking company as they will probably brush it aside but i really believe that you receiving your stake money back would be the worst thing that could happen for you.
Admit your addiction to people that may help you and it will be a huge step forward in your life.
 

nani

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Location
london
When I was mentally stable I Self excluded so I believe they should easily be able to enforce it especially if I’m betting £300-£400 a day.
 

nani

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Location
london
Nope, they shouldn't repay you as I see you knew very well what your doing.

Win --> run with the dosh
Lose --> complain to get lost moneys back.

Plenty of folks like you around. Sorry, no sympathy from me. Since you seem to be unable to control your urge, I would recommend to join a help program as otherwise you will be facing the same issue in the future.

But you are lucky because as per UKGC regulations they have to void all your bets since the self-exclusion and return any money/deposits if they failed their due diligence .

Sorry mate addictions don’t work like that. It’s more like win and bet again until you lose it all.
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Are the UKGC's rules totally explicit on refunding the SE person? Maybe i'm being blurry eyed but I've looked through the SR section and aside from 'reasonable steps' and 'returning funds in the account' to them I can't see anything that says 'the account will be put to a point in time as if a bet wasn't placed' etc

D'oh in advance ;)
 

paul7388

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2014
Location
glasgow scotland
Every gambler i know once a bet loses throws their slips away.

Just wondering why you kept every slip you bet. It is like you said to your self i will bet and hopefully win. And if i lose then since i am excluded i will keep the slips and they will have to refund me.

I know addicts have a compulsion to gamble. But i do not get with the amount of betting shops you went straight to the one you were excluded from to gamble. Anyone else would have went to a shop they were not excluded from.
 

slotter999

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Location
UK
Are the UKGC's rules totally explicit on refunding the SE person? Maybe i'm being blurry eyed but I've looked through the SR section and aside from 'reasonable steps' and 'returning funds in the account' to them I can't see anything that says 'the account will be put to a point in time as if a bet wasn't placed' etc

D'oh in advance ;)
Oddly they don't explicitly state that funds should be returned, however, the UKGC clearly believe this should happen as a matter of course. Look at the recent LeoVegas fine - they explicitly call out the fact that Leovegas did not return funds and should have. Leovegas will now have to return something in the region of £15K to those players.
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Oddly they don't explicitly state that funds should be returned, however, the UKGC clearly believe this should happen as a matter of course. Look at the recent LeoVegas fine - they explicitly call out the fact that Leovegas did not return funds and should have. Leovegas will now have to return something in the region of £15K to those players.

Cheers Slotter - the 15k though didn't relate to deposits when SE though, it was money that was sitting in their SE accounts (the bulk of which were under a quid i think)

I do find it weird that there isn't a bullet point in the Code stating something like 'where reasonable steps have not been taken and a previous SE customer is allowed to gamble, you shall return the customer to ....etc etc'. Too prescriptive?
 

slotter999

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Location
UK
Cheers Slotter - the 15k though didn't relate to deposits when SE though, it was money that was sitting in their SE accounts (the bulk of which were under a quid i think)

I do find it weird that there isn't a bullet point in the Code stating something like 'where reasonable steps have not been taken and a previous SE customer is allowed to gamble, you shall return the customer to ....etc etc'. Too prescriptive?

Ah I was mistaken by the circumstances of those self excluded player funds. But I think the fact they are obliged to give the money back does give an insight of the regulators view.

And yes I agree they could be much more explicit in their wording / guidance. I think I read somewhere before that they don't necessarily want to be explicit as it might act as some sort of deterrent to problem gamblers.

I have personally been denied the return of deposits by everymatrix after getting caught up in a self exclusion problem. I can't wait for the regulator to catch up with them eventually because I suspect the figures will be significant.
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
A new perspective here - there have been a few court cases in the last couple of years whereby excluded persons (betting shops) have sued for losses, and in all cases the judges have ruled the shops not at fault, no refunds.
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
In a consultation some time ago the UKGC stated that the operator has to return the account to state it was before any bet was made and that should apply to all bets after the SE was confirmed.

Now, doing that would mean putting the deposits back into the account and since the player is SE'ed, he can't gamble the funds and hence they should be returned.

But they never clearly instructed operators that that is the course of action, in fact they said once they are not in favor of returning the funds to the player as he/she would gamble them away again, extending the addiction.
 

nani

Newbie member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Location
london
Every gambler i know once a bet loses throws their slips away.

Just wondering why you kept every slip you bet. It is like you said to your self i will bet and hopefully win. And if i lose then since i am excluded i will keep the slips and they will have to refund me.

I know addicts have a compulsion to gamble. But i do not get with the amount of betting shops you went straight to the one you were excluded from to gamble. Anyone else would have went to a shop they were not excluded from.


No it’s lucky I kept around 40 slips in another coat which is 3-4 days betting. I threw maybe 150 away.
 
Top