Sega Casino - jury's out

MrWolf

Dormant account
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
London
Since Sega Casino's on the baptism by fire list, and is linked to a big name company I thought I'd give them a go. Here's a summary of my experience with them, not sure whether I'll be a regular here or not, but hopefully this may help others when deciding to play there or not.

Anyway, I deposited £300 with them on 12.8.10 via moneybookers because they annoyingly don't accept credit cards at the moment. I declined a bonus since I play JorB VP and don't want to throw my money away playing slots just to make promo requirements.

Anyway, my bankroll headed firmly south, until I was down to my last £25. Managed to survive, get it back up to £400 before hitting a £20k Royal.

Now here's where the fun started. I sent verification documents of my passport and a utility bill. However, because I had blocked out my passport number (everything else was visible) this wasn't acceptable. I explained to them I wasn't sending them a complete copy of my passport and it was irresponsible of them to ask for this since ID theft is such a big problem.

Anyway, they contacted me and said a wage slip from my employer would be acceptable together with some utility bills. Unbelievable. So they want details of my total income, monthly take home pay, National Insurance number, and company employee number. I told them where to get off.

I did though agree to send a copy of my UK driver's licence, a copy of my credit card statement, as well as their know your customer form. And they do indeed want to know about you. There's the usual name, date of birth, nationality, address, phone and email. But they also want to know your "status" whatever that means (marital status?) whether you are self-employed, job title, nature of work, company you work for, gross monthly income, and "source of funds?income".

Is it me but are they demanding too much information? I pointed out to them if I supplied everything they wanted what guarantees do I have that someone in their organisation wouldn't steal my identity?

Anyway, eventually the documentation I provided was deemed acceptable. Then the fun part was actually getting the funds. Since I eventually cashed in £22k I asked if I could have a bank transfer made. Not available at this time. Neither was a cheque. So I had to make a moneybookers withdrawal. However, you can only make £6k at a time withdrawals (moneybookers withdrawal limits are a whole different matter!).

By the beginning of last week, I tried calling Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday, but no-one was answering their support number. So I emailed to find out what was happening with my withdrawal. I'd received six emails, corresponding with the six withdrawals I'd made, saying I would receive the funds within 24-48 hours. That wasn't quite the case, but I did receive all the money at various stages between Tuesday and Friday last week.

Another curious thing before I finish on the topic. After hitting the Royal (£5 coins, max coins), I hit a 4 oak and eventually cashed in another £1k on top of the Royal. Later when I went back to play some more VP, I noticed that they had reduced the limits and 50p was their biggest coin size. Happily I decided to play some Let It Ride, where I again hit a 4 oak, three hands of £5 plus the bonus bet, meaning a £850 pay day, and also hit three of a kind on three card poker, adding another £150 to the bank roll, so cashing in another £1k. It felt ironic that limiting my bet size on my preferred game led me to play a couple of others, and nab a sizeable win.

I find it curious that Sega reduced the limits on VP after I hit a Royal, since I assume they'd be a well funded set up. It kind of rings alarm bells with me if they can't take that kind of hit. :eek:

Anyway, I've gone on long enough. Hope it's been useful to somebody else.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Another curious thing before I finish on the topic. After hitting the Royal (£5 coins, max coins), I hit a 4 oak and eventually cashed in another £1k on top of the Royal. Later when I went back to play some more VP, I noticed that they had reduced the limits and 50p was their biggest coin size.

And this was without a bonus, correct?

If so, imo, this is an instant baptism by fire FAIL, and they should be removed from accreditation consideration if they continue this practice. In my eyes, this only points to funding problems, because it just shows that they don't want to/can't afford to pay out many large hits such as your £20K ($31,062) royal.

And new or not, no casino should open its doors without having every deposit/withdrawal option setup and active. I mean, wth, are they that eager to take wagers that they'll open up half cocked?

I'm not saying they are, but If I had known nothing about this place before reading your post, I'd assume that you were dealing with a rogue casino....that's, of course, aside from the fact that you did get paid...
 

Simmo!

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
And this was without a bonus, correct?

If so, imo, this is an instant baptism by fire FAIL, and they should be removed from accreditation consideration if they continue this practice. In my eyes, this only points to funding problems

Needs to be verified but I just reinstalled Windows and don't have SEGA on there yet so I can't. If accredited status was removed for that we'd need to know more details and of course it would also mean every Rival and RTG bar iNetBet and Intertops would have to go too.

MrWolf said:
Anyway, I deposited £300 with them on 12.8.10 via moneybookers because they annoyingly don't accept credit cards at the moment.

They did actually implement direct card deposits recently but removed it - I don't think the authorisation codes were working quite as they should because I tried a deposit and it was "declined". So it could be an option again soon.

And new or not, no casino should open its doors without having every deposit/withdrawal option setup and active.

There must be about 100 different deposit/withdrawal options - I don't know any casino that has all of them WinBig. Bit strict aren't you LOL ;)
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Needs to be verified but I just reinstalled Windows and don't have SEGA on there yet so I can't. If accredited status was removed for that we'd need to know more details and of course it would also mean every Rival and RTG bar iNetBet and Intertops would have to go too.

So it's ok for a casino to drop a player's betting limits after a huge win? Fine, but they sure won't be keeping many players, aside from those that play for small stakes, with that policy...;) You would think that casinos would be jumping at the chance for a player to keep playing at their previous stake after a huge win like that, so they can give most of it back. Or are they just afraid of someone going on another great run and winning $100K more? Again, this reeks of funding problems...

They did actually implement direct card deposits recently but removed it - I don't think the authorisation codes were working quite as they should because I tried a deposit and it was "declined". So it could be an option again soon.



There must be about 100 different deposit/withdrawal options - I don't know any casino that has all of them WinBig. Bit strict aren't you LOL ;)

Well, what I meant was that if they're going to be accepting credit cards, Neteller, etc. on a normal basis, they should have at least waited until those methods were available and working before they opened for business....I didn't know about them having to take CC deposits offline because of a 'glitch.' :)

But as far as w/d options go, the same still applies. Why don't they have any other w/d options available besides MB? Is that their sole source of funding right now? You would think they'd have at least one processor/bank account that would allow them to at least send a check, if not a wire transfer.

If you combine all that with their unrealistic documentation requests, well, it smells fishy, at least to me.
 

4 of a kind

Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
New York
Nothing unusual here when you should (at this point) consider this casino is just an RIT. (Rogue in Training)

They obviously paid you especially that amount in a reasonable time. They tried the minimum rogue delay and game tactics, but realized they couldn't afford bad publicity this early on and paid you in a fair time hoping you would be posting around giving them some free spam.

Red Flags should be flying here...
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
They obviously paid you especially that amount in a reasonable time. They tried the minimum rogue delay and game tactics, but realized they couldn't afford bad publicity this early on and paid you in a fair time hoping you would be posting around giving them some free spam.

..which backfired, if that's the case. :)
 

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Hiya: First off. Mr. Wolf, and the rest of you, when will you all learn, "Send in your required Documents, PRIOR to depositing/playing. You have to do it anyway, so do it at the start. Don't like what they are asking for? Fine, don't deposit there. How many post do we have here that say the same thing????
"I deposit, and they want my mothers maiden name before they will pay me".
You should have know this, BEFORE you deposited, instead of waiting until after you won.

Next. This is Sega. A Gaming company first, and an On Line casino second. The policy they are using is the same at Sony, or Nintendo, or any other gaming company. They want as much information about you as possible. If you don't want to provide that information, then do not deposit there.

Withdraw limits should be listed in the Banking section of the Casino, or in their terms an conditions. Don't like the limits they have, then don't deposit there.

Now, here is the bad casino part. If there are NO withdraw limits listed on their web page or banking section, and or, they request ADDITIONAL documents after already approving what was sent in, and/or they violate their OWN terms and conditions, and the like, they YES, post away and complain about it.

imhop: There is NO difference between these type of post, and a person cashing their paycheck at Palace Station, here in Vegas, an getting a $5 match ticket, "$5 free with a $5 or higher bet", and placing it on the #17 at the Roulette table, and having the Pit Boss remove it, give it back, and say, "It can only be used on even money bets". "written on the bottom of the match play ticket". And having the player say, "WTF? If i had know that i would have just cashed my check someplace else". Is it the Casino fault, or the Players fault for not reading the policy first?
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
And this was without a bonus, correct?

If so, imo, this is an instant baptism by fire FAIL, and they should be removed from accreditation consideration if they continue this practice. In my eyes, this only points to funding problems, because it just shows that they don't want to/can't afford to pay out many large hits such as your £20K ($31,062) royal.

Completely disagree. The casino has the right to impose whatever limits it wants at any time for any reason, so long as it honors its agreement to pay winnings. If you don't like it, don't play.

winbig said:
Again, this reeks of funding problems...

This is not XYZ casino, it's Sega, for crying out loud. Exactly where are they going to have funding problems?

The reason for changing bet limits is simply risk management. I might agree with you that it's silly - but that is hardly a reason for removing them from the accredited list.
 

manofsteel

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Location
Philippines
Sounds like it might be startup pains to me. Hopefully the Sega Casino rep will see this and take what he can from it.

The Sega brand is likely worth more than this online gambling site many times over, the site is licensed in Alderney and Sega is a publicly traded company. Hardly the makings of a "rogue in training."
 

maphesto

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Location
Sweden
Can anyone tell me if Sega Casino still offer a "No Deposit" bonus where you after playthrough have to deposit 100$ and wager it to be able to withdraw 200$?

Must not implement terms that can be construed as "unfair" towards the player.

If they don't use this promotion anymore, I guess they are good to go.

About the issue in this thread, we have recently seen an accredited casino reducing limits AND stop a promotion towards a winning player in the middle of the promotion. If that's considered ok, I'll guess this issue is also. :rolleyes:

IMO:
To me it's only ok if they change the betsize for ALL players. To change it for one player only is definately a rogue behaviour.
It's like they don't believe that their own games are totally random and a winning player isn't just lucky, he/she has found out how to beat it..

The casino has the right to impose whatever limits it wants at any time for any reason, so long as it honors its agreement to pay winnings. If you don't like it, don't play.

Many things we are discussing here are to improve standards for online casinos.

To sit back and say "don't like it, don't play" isn't actually helping..:D

I agree with you totally if they limit betsize for ALL players. But to limit betsize for a player who just have won huge is alarming in many ways.
One of them might be a funding issue, but it's also indicates that they don't believe that their software can guarantee them profit by house edge.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
To me it's only ok if they change the betsize for ALL players. To change it for one player only is definately a rogue behaviour.

The casino is under no obligation to offer you a bet at all. Instead, it can simply refuse further play if it so chooses - so long as it pays out your winnings.

I'm not saying that changing the betsize is a good thing - but it is certainly not something which is considered rogue behavior.
 

maphesto

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Location
Sweden
The casino is under no obligation to offer you a bet at all. Instead, it can simply refuse further play if it so chooses - so long as it pays out your winnings.

I agree with you here!

I'm not saying that changing the betsize is a good thing - but it is certainly not something which is considered rogue behavior.

I understand you! I really do! :)
But if you then are trying to figure out why a casino chooses to limit one players betsize, you probably see that the only reasons are very strange.

If they really believe in their software and that every single move is totally random without any possibility to cheat/fool the software, they do not reduce a single players betsize just because he/she won.

If they reduce other things for one single player, like how much he can deposit/week etc. it can indicate that the player is a risk factor. Maybe they are afraid of charge backs etc.

In this case the only risk is within the casinos trust in their own software.

But I can change "rogue behaviour" to something less accusing.

Let's say that this is not what a trustable casino would do. :)
 

MrWolf

Dormant account
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
London
It's been interesting to hear everyones' take on Sega. Personally, I think they are honest but have launched in a pretty amateurish way. I think the bet limits now in place are likely to stop me being a regular here, even once all the other teething problems are sorted.
 

DiamondGeezer

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NOT Pennsylvania!!!
I agree Mr Wolf.

Wasn't their games motto 'to get this good takes ages?' Maybe they should simplify it - 'to get good takes ages'.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
But if you then are trying to figure out why a casino chooses to limit one players betsize, you probably see that the only reasons are very strange.

If they really believe in their software and that every single move is totally random without any possibility to cheat/fool the software, they do not reduce a single players betsize just because he/she won.

First of all, reducing a bet limit after a win is just making it harder for the player to lose back what he won :D If that happened to me, I'd simply cash out my winnings and go elsewhere.

However, the likely reason that the limit was reduced is because they are being overly cautious - perhaps way too cautious in this case.

There is nothing strange about this from the casino's perspective. Can't really be any doubt about the fairness of the software, which has been around for many years now. Highly unlikely that they are in a precarious financial position.

If anything, perhaps the policy was set by someone not too well-versed in gambling. But the point remains - the casino has every right to do so.

I'd lean more towards MrWolf's last comment - "amateurish".
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
First of all, reducing a bet limit after a win is just making it harder for the player to lose back what he won :D If that happened to me, I'd simply cash out my winnings and go elsewhere.

However, the likely reason that the limit was reduced is because they are being overly cautious - perhaps way too cautious in this case.

There is nothing strange about this from the casino's perspective. Can't really be any doubt about the fairness of the software, which has been around for many years now. Highly unlikely that they are in a precarious financial position.

If anything, perhaps the policy was set by someone not too well-versed in gambling. But the point remains - the casino has every right to do so.

I'd lean more towards MrWolf's last comment - "amateurish".

I would have expected better from such a big company. 20K is a big hit, but should NOT be so big as to trouble a big casino. Whatever their reasons, it is the PR that counts, since only THEY know the reasons, but WE are players, and can compare their ACTIONS with well known brands.

32Red and Ladbrokes would simply not react to a player winning 20K from a RF. They know the software is fair, and that although infrequent, the RF is a hand that almost every VP player gets if they play long enough (I have had many:D).

There was clearly no intent to withhold payment, BUT they had all their eggs in one basket (Moneybookers), without realising that it would be difficult for a player to get a large win out this way because of Moneybookers policies (which they should have researched before using them).

They went too far with the information requests, and this may even be illegal. Companies can ONLY demand RELEVANT information for the purposes of verifying the player, and operating the service. It cannot REQUIRE players to offer up "marketing profiles", but it can ask. The player can either give this information, or decline.

Players who block passport numbers are merely responding to advice given by the government, who would rather passports were not sent in at all. The problem is down to "in fighting" between government departments, regulators, and business.

Alderney is one of the best, and I doubt SEGA will do anything "stupid" such as misuse personal information, since this could cost them their license, and damage their reputation as a company.

Alderney regulations will specify which information SEGA is required to get from players, and they should NOT be "requiring" any more.

Where you (as a player) have both a drivers license and a passport, send the drivers license - the overall risk to your ID is a bit less, as well as the risk to the country.

They may be asking about job and income because they have to adhere to codes regarding responsible gambling, and will use this to set deposit limits, and maybe bet sizes.

Making the default a £5 coin, and then dropping it to 50p after assessment was a silly move. In this case it looked like the took fright simply because the player got the RF on max bet, and near the start - it happens sometimes, this is why it is RANDOM software.

They should set the defaults low for new players, and THEN raise them after they have assessed the player. Most casinos reserve the higher betting limits for their "vip" players, or to those who can show they have the means to take the losses without suffering hardship.

I see no need to jump in when even an accredited casino opens, if my personal preferences for deposits and withdrawals are not shown, I will wait till they are, asking the relevant reps about timescales if I am particularly keen to try them out.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
vinylweatherman said:
I would have expected better from such a big company.

Herein lies the rub. Sega/Sammy is a huge company in the gaming and pachinko worlds. They are well-experienced when it comes to these products, particularly in a normal retail situation.

However, Sega Casino is a fledgling company, and certainly does not have the same level of experience as its parent company. I think they're going to have to up their investment in human resources in order to get up to speed.
 

liquuid_fusion

Meister Member
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Joined
Nov 6, 2005
Location
UK
Very strange decision to reduce the max bet. It either implies funding problems (ie risk management), which seems unlikely... or that whoever did this does not understand the fundamentals of running a casino (probably more likely).

I've had strange risk management decisions imposed on me before by other accredited casinos. Eg bwin refused to let me deposit more than £3k/month even though it would be through non-risky routes to them such as Neteller. I wasn't claiming bonuses. The manager told me it wasn't possible and suggested I play at a different casino.

I wouldn't play at Sega if they limited to 50p coins.

They will lose players if they continue with such policies.
 
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