SE Question

[SpinUk]

You do know that you are abdicating players of all and any responsibility, do you?

The solution is so easy:

- in big letters on the registration form: If you have SE'ed at any of our brands (insert bold link) you will not be able to deposit, play or have winnings paid. Any lost deposits will be donated to charity.

99.99% of this SE fraud would instantly stop!

Conversely if you imposed a statutory 5000 euro fine against the casino for each SE registration infraction I think you would find the issue disappeared overnight.

 

[colinsunderland]

Overall, I do not see where they can make big profits from SE'ed people unless they go undetected for months or years.

In any normal case where they detect it when they do the full KYC, after all is paid and done, it costs them money and in the worst case fines.

SE'ed players who try getting around or are not checking for sister sites are actually the bane of casino operators. They are only trouble, nobody wants really wants them as customers.

Customer deposits, loses, deposits, loses, repeat repeat repeat. Customer wins, sorry you're self excluded, we aren't paying you. Customer walks away. Casino profits.
A very small percentage know they can get deposits refunded, complain either on a forum and get deposits back. Casino small loss for dealing with complaint.
Plenty of profit there with absolutely no risk for the casino as they can never win.

As I keep saying, casinos could very easily stop this with simple checks on registration. The fact they don't flies against you saying no one wants them as customers, as for every one who is trying to scam them, there are probably dozens who just lose their money.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Conversely if you imposed a statutory 5000 euro fine for each SE member being able to deposit again I think you would find the issue disappeared overnight.

The most recent fines were actually higher when you work it out per player.

 

[SpinUk]

Not when you dont know the volume of SE players who deposit, then lose and stay under the radar and go away quietly.

Are you seriously telling me in 2020 its difficult/impossible to systematically block or flag up soft/close matches on registration? A single coder could script that in less than a day.

We have recent posts here where the casino is squealing about the refund after a client has managed to register with just the first name spelt incorrectly - come on.

 

[EkJR]

Leo have had issues with their SE database and there have been a raft of complaints. It's not difficult for a casino. They do the verification before allowing the customer to play and cross check the details with Gamstop/their SE register. Any casino group on the same licence failing to detect SE at this stage in the game is not fit for purpose imo. The vast majority of operators are following the rules...even my good friends at Kindred Group!

Should get deposits back.

 

[Slottery]

Repeating myself, but i just start more and more agree that forcing all players self-exclude themselves through Gamstop seem to be really easy and for sure effective solution when there are no discrepancies, different systems, these same company or not etc... confusions. That would really make self-exclusion to be what it is meant, protect vulnerable players. Like said in other thread, from RG perspective, it's nonsense to have gambling problem on some sites and not others.

Then also all operators would be obligated to close accounts on request, from one brand or whole license (can use their current self-exclusion tools), that would make things black and white, players with gambling problems would be protected by UKGC held database (players would get re-directed from operators RG page to Gamstop) and there only. Operators would still have their closure tools but if player want to be protected, then need to do it through Gamstop.

Would save loads of time and money for casinos and players, it does take some resources and work for compliance team to investigate all complaints and reply to players/ADR:s/UKGC. I don't believe that any casino would cry after these deposits which they currently get due flaws in SE:s, not that remarkable money compare to work and risk what you have to get punished by regulator if you fckup.

 

[GunarsB]

Just wondering, and without any offence, why would a person, who decided to SE himself from a casino, try to sign up and even deposit to a different casino? Imo this person should have had a thought of doing something against his/her addiction. I understand that dealing with this is hard, but if a person really wants to stop, SE from one site shouldn't be enough. I think Gamstop is an option, although I haven't checked the possibilities there. But there are other methods to block from accesing other similar gambling sites.
And then, if a person decides to play again, that's his own adultary decision together with all the consequences. And to avoid this kind of problem, either don't SE, so there won't be a problem for gambling site to block the withdrawal, or if a person decides to SE in one of the sites, that should mean SE from all gambling sites as far as a person is honest to him/herself.
It may sound harsh, but that's how it is and I don't think that's only a casino's fault. I'm not trying to defend a casino here, just pointing out that we all are adults and we should be totally responsible for our actions. Ifa person is too weak to stay away from gambling, then he/she needs to search out for a professional help, and definitely close all backdoors for addiction.
I hope I didn't offend anyone with this, it's only my opinion, and again, I really like this forum with all interesting people. Thank you.

 

[Slottery]

Just wondering, and without any offence, why would a person, who decided to SE himself from a casino, try to sign up and even deposit to a different casino? Imo this person should have had a thought of doing something against his/her addiction. I understand that dealing with this is hard, but if a person really wants to stop, SE from one site shouldn't be enough. I think Gamstop is an option, although I haven't checked the possibilities there. But there are other methods to block from accesing other similar gambling sites.
And then, if a person decides to play again, that's his own adultary decision together with all the consequences. And to avoid this kind of problem, either don't SE, so there won't be a problem for gambling site to block the withdrawal, or if a person decides to SE in one of the sites, that should mean SE from all gambling sites as far as a person is honest to him/herself.
It may sound harsh, but that's how it is and I don't think that's only a casino's fault. I'm not trying to defend a casino here, just pointing out that we all are adults and we should be totally responsible for our actions. Ifa person is too weak to stay away from gambling, then he/she needs to search out for a professional help, and definitely close all backdoors for addiction.
I hope I didn't offend anyone with this, it's only my opinion, and again, I really like this forum with all interesting people. Thank you.

Pretty much what i tried to write, all self-exclusion directed to same Gamstop database would stop these flaws and mistakes, from players and casinos. No it more or less sucks for both to argue who's fault it was that some player how has self-excluded somewhere, lost money to other site, sometimes casinos fault, sometimes players fault or "fault".

Also currently thanks to people who try to benefit about SE flaws with their fraudulent behavior, these ones who SE should have been recognized have much harder time to claim their complaint because there's for obvious reasons very little gestures of goodwill in these cases if casinos haven't technically broken rules. Making one refund what casino is not obligated to, make sure they find many exact similar situations built up very shortly.

Take self-exclusion off from casinos and use Gamstop which is there ready and mandatory would imo be logical step from regulator who's all the time at least acting like they try to help problem gamblers. Implenting this would take very little resources as Gamstop already exist and redirecting player from site to other is not a huge task which would take over hour.

edit: Let's join to this exact thread that much that in this case it looks pretty clear that OP should get refunded as long details used are matching to self-excluded details or some other information coming up we don't have in this thread.

 

[EkJR]

Just wondering, and without any offence, why would a person, who decided to SE himself from a casino, try to sign up and even deposit to a different casino? Imo this person should have had a thought of doing something against his/her addiction. I understand that dealing with this is hard, but if a person really wants to stop, SE from one site shouldn't be enough. I think Gamstop is an option, although I haven't checked the possibilities there. But there are other methods to block from accesing other similar gambling sites.
And then, if a person decides to play again, that's his own adultary decision together with all the consequences. And to avoid this kind of problem, either don't SE, so there won't be a problem for gambling site to block the withdrawal, or if a person decides to SE in one of the sites, that should mean SE from all gambling sites as far as a person is honest to him/herself.
It may sound harsh, but that's how it is and I don't think that's only a casino's fault. I'm not trying to defend a casino here, just pointing out that we all are adults and we should be totally responsible for our actions. Ifa person is too weak to stay away from gambling, then he/she needs to search out for a professional help, and definitely close all backdoors for addiction.
I hope I didn't offend anyone with this, it's only my opinion, and again, I really like this forum with all interesting people. Thank you.

Because people dont just SE for gambling issues. Sometimes it's because they hate waiting weeks for withdrawals or whatever else. Closing an account allows the possibility of it being reopened, SE does not.

 

[GunarsB]

Because people dont just SE for gambling issues. Sometimes it's because they hate waiting weeks for withdrawals or whatever else. Closing an account allows the possibility of it being reopened, SE does not.

If I would be unhappy with a customer service of a particular casino, I wouldn't need to self exclude myself from it, I just would not go there anymore.

 

[GunarsB]

With that I mean that everyone has their own reasons to SE, and I can't judge if the reasons are legit or not.

 

[Slottery]

Because people dont just SE for gambling issues. Sometimes it's because they hate waiting weeks for withdrawals or whatever else. Closing an account allows the possibility of it being reopened, SE does not.

Think it would help if self-exclusion and closing account for other reasons would be clearly separated. Currently is just a big mess, we get more or less new thread here every week and amount of players complaining about these is quite big.

Don't see any losers to make all self-exclusions from gambling problem nationwide and then account closures per casino or license.