SE issue (with complications) - advice needed

gordo43

Newbie member
Hi all,

Need some advice on the following scenario which I've experienced. I know SE threads and issues are common and covered in other threads, however there's some slight complications with this one and could do with some advice whether there's a case against the casino, in summary:

- Signed up to Casino, was careful to check the UKGC licence to see if had previously signed up to any of their brands/sites, hadn't signed up to any.
- Account was opened, all personal details correct.
- Made several deposits over the next 2-3 hours. No bonuses taken.
- Win and decide to cash out.
- Account becomes blocked (seconds after a big hit), cannot withdraw. Call made to CS who state that security had locked the account but couldn't see why. Advised to wait for an email from them.
- Email arrives, they pull up a term and condition stating "you have not excluded yourself from betting or gambling and have neither we nor any other online gaming operator has excluded you from betting or gambling".
- I email back the casino asking for proof of SE and where, to which they reply with a casino brand which was (but no longer) trading, which used to come under their licence.

So clearly the issue is the T&C which implies a "cover all" ban on SEing at any casino (otherwise they'll take your winnings and close your account) and also the fact they're pulling old data from a casino which has now closed down.

Winnings confiscated were 3k. The CS were not willing to engage with conversation from me about the issue, so dispute has been submitted to IBAS.

Any thoughts?
 

Playford7

Senior Member
MM
Hi all,

Need some advice on the following scenario which I've experienced. I know SE threads and issues are common and covered in other threads, however there's some slight complications with this one and could do with some advice whether there's a case against the casino, in summary:

- Signed up to Casino, was careful to check the UKGC licence to see if had previously signed up to any of their brands/sites, hadn't signed up to any.
- Account was opened, all personal details correct.
- Made several deposits over the next 2-3 hours. No bonuses taken.
- Win and decide to cash out.
- Account becomes blocked (seconds after a big hit), cannot withdraw. Call made to CS who state that security had locked the account but couldn't see why. Advised to wait for an email from them.
- Email arrives, they pull up a term and condition stating "you have not excluded yourself from betting or gambling and have neither we nor any other online gaming operator has excluded you from betting or gambling".
- I email back the casino asking for proof of SE and where, to which they reply with a casino brand which was (but no longer) trading, which used to come under their licence.

So clearly the issue is the T&C which implies a "cover all" ban on SEing at any casino (otherwise they'll take your winnings and close your account) and also the fact they're pulling old data from a casino which has now closed down.

Winnings confiscated were 3k. The CS were not willing to engage with conversation from me about the issue, so dispute has been submitted to IBAS.

Any thoughts?
What Casino and what Licence are involved???.
 

Playford7

Senior Member
MM
Betmclean.com, Sportsbetting and Gaming Services Limited.
Well I've no idea who they are. Never heard of such a group/casino.
Apologies.
There are folk on here who know much better than me, so hopefully you will have one comment and churn in sooner rather than later.
In future, just a bit of advice not telling you what to do with your money, but pick a accredited casino on here, then at least if it goes tits up you have casinomeister as a source of advice and help.
Best wishes and luck with your issue, sorry I couldn't be more help.
 

gordo43

Newbie member
You must've previously SE'd from on of their sister sites, betpack.com, go-bet.com or goatbet.com

In fact sounds like Goatwack's own casino. :D
:p

The SE is on none of their 'active' brands, it's on a website which previously came under their licence but then closed. Hence I didn't pick up on it before signing up.

Failing a suitable reply from IBAS, anyone had any experience taking an operator through the small claims route, or is his likely to be a waste of time and effort?
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
:p

The SE is on none of their 'active' brands, it's on a website which previously came under their licence but then closed. Hence I didn't pick up on it before signing up.

Failing a suitable reply from IBAS, anyone had any experience taking an operator through the small claims route, or is his likely to be a waste of time and effort?
It doesn't matter if it's closed, you still have an active SE under their license. Get your deposits back and move on, there's little you can do as they're playing by the rules.
 

Jasminebed

Grumpy old gal
It doesn't matter if it's closed, you still have an active SE under their license. Get your deposits back and move on, there's little you can do as they're playing by the rules.
I usually defer to Dunover's opinions, but in this case I truly hope he is wrong. The OP did his due diligence with checking for other casinos sharing the license. Either they should list prior (not just active) licensees or pay the player.

I'm not UK, but I would try IBAS first, and if the results are not satisfactory go the small claims route. Contracts require an element of fairness, and what about this situation seems fair?
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
I usually defer to Dunover's opinions, but in this case I truly hope he is wrong. The OP did his due diligence with checking for other casinos sharing the license. Either they should list prior (not just active) licensees or pay the player.

I'm not UK, but I would try IBAS first, and if the results are not satisfactory go the small claims route. Contracts require an element of fairness, and what about this situation seems fair?
I agree, and we come back to the same old point - ANY casino not listing sister sites/co-licensees is providing incomplete and prejudicial terms which are unfair and in breach of consumer laws here. The problem is the UKGC (who are aware of this) don't choose to enforce fair terms. Whether this is their inherent ineptitude and negligence or pressure from the licensees that can take no-lose deposits on this basis, I can't be sure. :mad:

The OP would win I'm sure if he uses the small claims court and provide a copy of the terms at the time he signed up - if he can demonstrate they are incomplete, then plain sailing. We know this from the EMSEB claimant where they didn't bother defending his case under it merits, i.e. incomplete terms.
 

theapple

Senior Member
casinos that are so happy and quick to confiscate winnings because they share license with some random site should have their sister sites listed and it shouldnt be on 1005th page of T&C either, but on main page. It also should be mandatory to do such a thing because casinos cant expect players to check each and every license (and im sure they are banking on it) before they deposit at their place. And on rare cases players go out their way and check license in question, shit like this happens. Amount of SE abuse is unreal right now.

It should be next to MGA logo, our sister sites are "blabla.com, wewantyourmoney.com, youcantwinherebecauseyouselfexcludedyourselfatGugugu.com, youcanonlylosehere.com". Surely it cant be that hard to implement?

right now its a win win situation for casinos and im not surprised they are happy with the way SE works right now, so please stop with that nonsense about responsible gaming or how this or that is done because of player protection. Its a trap and legal loophole casinos are abusing and are going to keep on abusing until they are forced to change the way it works.
 

gordo43

Newbie member
Thanks for the replies, I'll wait for the outcome of the IBAS submission and decide from there, although I'm leaning towards small claims court next.
 
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