Rushmore stole my winnings of 1000$

joefrom

Dormant account
PABnorogue
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Location
Germany
Some weeks ago I signed up at rushmore casino via an affiliate who offered a special welcome bonus of 300%. I deposited 250$ via neteller. The bonus was credited so that I had a balance of 1000$ and I played blackjack and some minutes later my balance was 2000$. Suddenly I was disconnected from the casino and the bonus of 750$ and the winnings of 1000$ were removed so that only my deposit of 250$ was left. I talked to the live support rep and he told me that's because one cannot claim bonuses on neteller deposits. I asked him to restore my balance but he refused to do so. I explained to him that his statement that neteller deposits do not attract bonuses does not make sense because I received the bonus on a neteller deposit and nowhere did it say something like one cannot claim bonuses on neteller deposits.

It did not say anything like that on the affiliates site nor on the site set up by Rushmore casino that promoted that special bonus nor on the Rushmore homepage and in the cashier it even said that all deposit methods are allowed once I had entered the bonus code.

So I emailed the support but they refused to give my winnings back to me. The only reason they could come up with was „neteller deposit do not attract bonuses“. A statement that is obviously completely absurd. I asked them some questions like where did it say that neteller is not allowed and who their manager is and if they have got a licence by a licencing authority but they refused to answer these questions. The customer support manager replied that he is the one I shall talk to and that we could talk on the phone about this matter but I do not want to talk on the phone about it because my english is not good enough for that and anyway there would be no point in doing it. And he replied that he would not reply to my emails anymore. How nice. lol :lolup::eek:

Then I asked Steve Russo of Gamblinggrumbles for help and I posted a complaint on the Askgamblers site but Rushmore ignored both. Well, not surprisingly because it is 100% obvious that I am right and that they are wrong. Steve posted a report about it on his site.

I also asked the affiliate to help me and he tried to do so but Rushmore insisted on stealing my winnings. At least the affiliate posted a warning about Rushmore on his site and he removed the special bonus. There are many complaints about Rushmore on the forums so affiliates should not promote them anymore. And should they not be thrown into the rogue pit of casinomeister? They are notorious for slow paying but there is a big difference between slow paying and stealing the legitimate winnings of 1000$ from a player so the rogue pit is the place where they belong imo.

I know that I could file a complaint via the CDS, the central dispute system of RTG casinos, but afaik they are not helpful at all so I do not do so.

Does someone know if they have got a licence by a licencing authority? Their customer support manager did not want to answer this question.

And does someone know who their manager is? I would like to email him or her. Their customer support manager did not want to reveal this secret either.

Probably I will not be able to recoup my stolen winnings but at least I want to warn the online gaming community of this rogue site in order to prevent that even more players are ripped off by them. Oh and btw I can prove that I am telling the truth because I made screenshots and I have still got all of the emails.

And afaik they do not have a rep on this forum but I will send a link to them suggesting they post a reply here but I am pretty sure they will ignore this complaint like the other ones for obvious reasons lol :lolup:

Shame on you, Rushmore! :mad:
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
FYI

The player submitted this complaint at Gambling Grumbles and they ruled in his favor, citing the fact that Rushmore do not have a term stating that Neteller deposits are excluded from promotions, since this was their reason for confiscation.

Unfortunately, GG got it wrong this time around. All Rushmore promotions state clearly which methods are accepted i.e. they do not list what methods are excluded (which is why GG did not find anything).

From the website:

WELCOME BONUS

This bonus is valid for deposits made using credit card, Moneyline and Moneybooker deposits.

It is a very clear case of the player not checking the terms before they deposit, and the casino is well within their rights to confiscate the winnings and bonus.

Make sure you check the terms every time you take a bonus and you can avoid another unfortunate situation like this.

FWIW it has been common knowledge for a long time (around here at least) that Rushmore do not give bonuses on Neteller deposits, so this is not something they have invented to avoid payment.
 

same_old

Dormant account
webmeister
PABaccred
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Location
Australia
Agree with Nifty here.

I went to Rushmores home page and clicked on PROMOTIONS.

It is right there at the bottom of the page in CLEAR writing that it is for Moneybooker,Moneyline and credit card only.
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
Agree with Nifty here.

I went to Rushmores home page and clicked on PROMOTIONS.

It is right there at the bottom of the page in CLEAR writing that it is for Moneybooker,Moneyline and credit card only.

Yes, I will also join you and Nifty on this one :)
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
How Gambling Grumbles handles these issues is strictly their own business as I am sure they have their own code of ethics so I wont comment on whether they are right or wrong.

On this issue, if the bonus is not valid for neteller deposits why would it be given to the op? Naturally, one would expect that if the bonus appeared you can play with it. Even if not, why should play be voided as at least the op had his deposit of $250 to use to gain winnings. It does seem that the casino was just looking for an opportunity to pounce. If the op had lost fine since the bonus is non-cashable anyway. He was winning so they just removed the bonus and winnings using the neteller excuse. I dont think its hard to not give a bonus if an incorrect deposit is used. This is sort of a trap. You give the bonus and if the player loses its great. If he wins the casino confiscates everything but the deposit.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
How Gambling Grumbles handles these issues is strictly their own business as I am sure they have their own code of ethics so I wont comment on whether they are right or wrong.

On this issue, if the bonus is not valid for neteller deposits why would it be given to the op? Naturally, one would expect that if the bonus appeared you can play with it. Even if not, why should play be voided as at least the op had his deposit of $250 to use to gain winnings. It does seem that the casino was just looking for an opportunity to pounce. If the op had lost fine since the bonus is non-cashable anyway. He was winning so they just removed the bonus and winnings using the neteller excuse. I dont think its hard to not give a bonus if an incorrect deposit is used. This is sort of a trap. You give the bonus and if the player loses its great. If he wins the casino confiscates everything but the deposit.

I don't know of any casino that blocks deposits VIA certain methods for certain bonuses....at least RTG ones. Just because the casino allows the deposit to go through, doesn't release the player from their own responsibility to follow the terms. When did you even see a section on RTG coupon details where deposit methods are even mentioned?

A trap? Come on Chu. It is clearly mentioned what the terms are...nothing is hidden. How do you know what they would have done if he was losing? How do you know that it wasn't a regular check that happens every Xx minutes that picked it up? You don't, so its a guess based on nothing.

It doesn't matter how clear or well-defined the terms are, there will always be some saying "the casino ripped them off" or "the casino deliberately put the term there to trap them". I just don't understand....if it is good enough for almost everyone else to take a minute to check the terms of a bonus, then its good enough for the OP.
 

greasemonkey

Banned User - flaming
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Location
USA
I don't know of any casino that blocks deposits VIA certain methods for certain bonuses....at least RTG ones. Just because the casino allows the deposit to go through, doesn't release the player from their own responsibility to follow the terms. When did you even see a section on RTG coupon details where deposit methods are even mentioned?

A trap? Come on Chu. It is clearly mentioned what the terms are...nothing is hidden. How do you know what they would have done if he was losing? How do you know that it wasn't a regular check that happens every Xx minutes that picked it up? You don't, so its a guess based on nothing.

It doesn't matter how clear or well-defined the terms are, there will always be some saying "the casino ripped them off" or "the casino deliberately put the term there to trap them". I just don't understand....if it is good enough for almost everyone else to take a minute to check the terms of a bonus, then its good enough for the OP.

Actually what makes this case interesting is precisely because rushpod will allow you to put in a coupon code but if you don't use one of the listed deposit methods then no bonus is credited.

The fact that they DID credit the bonus and allow some play means that they SHOULD honor it. If the OP had lost would they have credited his deposit back? No. At the very minimum the OP should have his 250 deposit AND the 1000 in winnings in his account. They should in no way keep any of that part. They do have the ability to not award the bonus to the wrong deposit method. They did. Their fault.
 

cvbeck

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Location
dallas
I'm curious, though - why does it matter that much what the method of deposit is - don't most vendors charge around the same amount as a credit card +-2%? Or is Neteller so egregiously overpriced in their processing fees that the casino can't afford the bonuses and the processing fees?
 

same_old

Dormant account
webmeister
PABaccred
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Location
Australia
Hi guys,

I see what you are saying but doesn't it make it a moot point if they have these T&C's in place PRIOR to the deposit being made.

I mean come on, I went to the Rushmore site and not even two minutes it took me to see NO NETTELER for bonuses.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
How Gambling Grumbles handles these issues is strictly their own business as I am sure they have their own code of ethics so I wont comment on whether they are right or wrong.

On this issue, if the bonus is not valid for neteller deposits why would it be given to the op? Naturally, one would expect that if the bonus appeared you can play with it. Even if not, why should play be voided as at least the op had his deposit of $250 to use to gain winnings. It does seem that the casino was just looking for an opportunity to pounce. If the op had lost fine since the bonus is non-cashable anyway. He was winning so they just removed the bonus and winnings using the neteller excuse. I dont thintk its hard to not give a bonus if an incorrect deposit is used. This is sort of a trap. You give the bonus and if the player loses its great. If he wins the casino confiscates everything but the deposit.

Hi guys,

I see what you are saying but doesn't it make it a mute point if they have these T&C's in place PRIOR to the deposit being made.

I mean come on, I went to the Rushmore site and not even two minutes it took me to see NO NETTELER for bonuses.

Yes of course it is a moot point.

As I said, it doesn't matter what the facts are, some just always side with the player, usually due to themselves being caught doing something at some point.

The fact is that rushmore do not allow bonuses on neteller deposits and havent for some time. It doesn't matter what the software did or did not do....using greasemonkeys logic, if blackjack is an excluded game, but the software let's you play it, then the rules do not apply. It's just fanciful. I have no love for rushmore believe me, but I do believe in personal responsibility and don't see why people feel they have to be spoonfed when just about everyone else manage just fine.

I've never heard of bonuses not being credited if using a certain method....I assume you would only find out by trying to claim a coupon that you knew you weren't eligible for, wouldn't you?

We can wax lyrical all day, but the OP isn't going to get paid.....and I don't have a problem with that in his case. We also need to remember that the OP had NOT met wagering so there was technically no winnings confiscated, it was all bonus funds.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
OK, even without the bonus he had his own $250 on which to win at BJ. How can the casino prove his winnings were derived from the bonus and not his own deposit.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
OK, even without the bonus he had his own $250 on which to win at BJ. How can the casino prove his winnings were derived from the bonus and not his own deposit.

Once the bonus was credited the $250 was not his at all....it was subject to WR along with the bonus amount, so it was impossible for him to "win with his own deposit"....in fact, the RTG classifies the deposit as part of bonus funds once a coupon is added.

It's really clutching at straws there Chu.
 

joefrom

Dormant account
PABnorogue
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Location
Germany
Stop. you are wrong, folks. please read one more time what I posted:


Some weeks ago I signed up at rushmore casino via an affiliate who offered a special welcome bonus of 300% ... and nowhere did it say something like one cannot claim bonuses on neteller deposits.

It did not say anything like that on the affiliates site nor on the site set up by Rushmore casino that promoted that special bonus nor on the Rushmore homepage and in the cashier it even said that all deposit methods are allowed once I had entered the bonus code.

I did read the terms and nowhere did it say something like neteller is not allowed or only credit card, moneyline and moneybooker are allowed deposit methods. Like I said I deposited and I claimed that bonus some weeks ago. To be more precise it was on the 19th of August. And I have made screenshots of the terms on that day and maybe I should post them here but I do not know how to put a pic into a post but I can do some research about it and once I have found it out I can post my screenshots in this thread to prove that I am right. Am I allowed to post a screenshot of the site that described the affiliates special bonus? Probably I am.

FYI

The player submitted this complaint at Gambling Grumbles and they ruled in his favor, citing the fact that Rushmore do not have a term stating that Neteller deposits are excluded from promotions, since this was their reason for confiscation.

Unfortunately, GG got it wrong this time around. All Rushmore promotions state clearly which methods are accepted i.e. they do not list what methods are excluded (which is why GG did not find anything).

From the website:



It is a very clear case of the player not checking the terms before they deposit, and the casino is well within their rights to confiscate the winnings and bonus.

Make sure you check the terms every time you take a bonus and you can avoid another unfortunate situation like this.

FWIW it has been common knowledge for a long time (around here at least) that Rushmore do not give bonuses on Neteller deposits, so this is not something they have invented to avoid payment.

So this thread goes into a complete wrong direction now. I did check the terms and if Rushmore wants to exclude a deposit method from promotions they have to state that on their site somewhere and they do so NOW but they did not do so on the 19th of August. And that means that they stole my legitimate winnings.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Stop. you are wrong, folks. please read one more time what I posted:




I did read the terms and nowhere did it say something like neteller is not allowed or only credit card, moneyline and moneybooker are allowed deposit methods. Like I said I deposited and I claimed that bonus some weeks ago. To be more precise it was on the 19th of August. And I have made screenshots of the terms on that day and maybe I should post them here but I do not know how to put a pic into a post but I can do some research about it and once I have found it out I can post my screenshots in this thread to prove that I am right. Am I allowed to post a screenshot of the site that described the affiliates special bonus? Probably I am.



So this thread goes into a complete wrong direction now. I did check the terms and if Rushmore wants to exclude a deposit method from promotions they have to state that on their site somewhere and they do so NOW but they did not do so on the 19th of August. And that means that they stole my legitimate winnings.

Post your screenshots.

However, you incorrect about the homepage....rushmore have listed accepted deposit methods with their bonuses for years, and neteller has not been accepted in all that time.

BTW was your unsuccessful PAB related to this issue or a different one?
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
By stating only certain depositing methods are accepted for promotions Rushmore is specifically saying that others are excluded. However I do not follow Nifty's argument when saying the op's $250 deposit is tied to the bonus. The casino is not honouring the bonus so it is not possible for wagering to be tied to a non-existent bonus.
 

same_old

Dormant account
webmeister
PABaccred
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Location
Australia
Stop. you are wrong, folks. please read one more time what I posted:




I did read the terms and nowhere did it say something like neteller is not allowed or only credit card, moneyline and moneybooker are allowed deposit methods. Like I said I deposited and I claimed that bonus some weeks ago. To be more precise it was on the 19th of August. And I have made screenshots of the terms on that day and maybe I should post them here but I do not know how to put a pic into a post but I can do some research about it and once I have found it out I can post my screenshots in this thread to prove that I am right. Am I allowed to post a screenshot of the site that described the affiliates special bonus? Probably I am.



So this thread goes into a complete wrong direction now. I did check the terms and if Rushmore wants to exclude a deposit method from promotions they have to state that on their site somewhere and they do so NOW but they did not do so on the 19th of August. And that means that they stole my legitimate winnings.

I'm Sorry If i did not correctly read into your first post joefrom.

Now in this case this is between the Affiliate and the casino.

Did the casino inform the affiliate that NETELLER was NOT allowed for this particular bonus, if not then YES- the casino IS at fault here.

If the casino did inform the Affiliate of this then your argument needs to be with him/her as the casino did state to them.

Have you gone to the affiliate site you joined through and asked them this?
 

chayton

aka LooHoo
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Edmonton Canada
I did check the terms and if Rushmore wants to exclude a deposit method from promotions they have to state that on their site somewhere and they do so NOW but they did not do so on the 19th of August. And that means that they stole my legitimate winnings.

If you have screenshots of the terms when you made the deposit and it didn't say anything about Neteller then maybe you should stop posting and try to PAB if you haven't already.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
By stating only certain depositing methods are accepted for promotions Rushmore is specifically saying that others are excluded. However I do not follow Nifty's argument when saying the op's $250 deposit is tied to the bonus. The casino is not honouring the bonus so it is not possible for wagering to be tied to a non-existent bonus.

You've lost me Chu.

When the bonus was still in play, his deposit was subject to WR.

Once the bonus and winnings were removed, of course he could play whatever he wanted.....however I don't see where the OP said anything about playing BJ..??
 

luarod

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Location
Madrid
Hi.

Well. this is a tough one. As same_old mentioned, it could be a misunderstanding between the Affiliate and the Casino if the Affiliate's email didn't have correct Terms and conditions. If this was the case, the player shouldn't pay for others.

The way I see it, he shouldn't have received the bonus in the first place. I can't believe that is so difficult to make a bonus that doesn't allow certain players. If I haven't made a deposit and put the code I won't get the money, well if I haven't made a deposit with the necessary methods then I shouldn't get the bonus.

As he shouldn't have gotten the bonus, the winnings made with that bonus should be voided so for me he should still get the initial deposit as if the bonus thing didn't happen.

All this, if the OP is right and in the email he got there is no mention to neteller deposits not being OK.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This is the problem with trusting affiliates. Affiliates are not going to give out negative information that might put off a player from signing up after going through his links. It is also known that some affiliates go as far as to fake the casino's own site in order to prevent the player from having a "look around" before registering. I have seen many such faked sites, where although there are the usual links to terms, about us, promotions, etc, everything you click on just downloads the casino. When this is done, the terms are no longer obvious, as they are not mentioned in the lobby, nor enforced by the coupon system. I don't think the back end can be configured to kill coupons based on method of deposit, even though they can block coupons based on "static" criteria, such as country of origin, player status, etc.

Maybe complain to Neteller, and state that the winnings were taken SOLELY because Neteller was used, rather than method of play, questionable ID, etc.

I have already spoken to Neteller VIP about this, and it seems they don't actually know this kind of thing is going on. They may see this as merchants libeling Neteller by implying any deposits coming through them are much riskier than even Moneybookers, which is the SAME kind of service, but is in direct competition with Neteller.

Of course, this is Rushmore, and only half of the problem. Even if this hadn't happened, they seem to have repeated problems with their processors that delay withdrawals, sometimes for weeks, and not always confined to US players.

The casino has covered it's ass by another term that states information on "third party sites" is automatically overruled by information on the casino site itself. Clearly, casinos know damn well that affiliates pull stunts like this, and add this type of term in order to shift responsibilty to the affiliate.

Forget CDS, it's a clear win for the casino because the term is there. The only way to win is if the term was only added after the bonus was claimed, and most of us know that a term of this nature has been at Rushmore for a couple of years, and although Moneybookers seems to have been allowed again for bonuses (it used to be ONLY cards and bank deposits) Neteller was permanently added. The term also used to list excluded methods, but has now changed to list included methods, which in some sense is a clearer way to do it.

The lesson is to NEVER rely on what an affiliate site says about a promotion, but ALWAYS double check with the casino.

Ideally, you should NOT go via the affiliate at all in case it leads to a different page where the information is misleading, but go DIRECT via the URL typed into the browser, and read all the terms and conditions. If after doing this you feel you want to go via the affiliate, clear your cookies and go back to the affiliate site, click through, and then register. The affiliate will get the credit, but you can be sure you have been presented with the terms from the casino's own site, rather than information on the affiliate site, or special landing page.

The misleading landing page trick is normally seen with email spam, rather than through links on an affiliate site.
 

greasemonkey

Banned User - flaming
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Location
USA
Post your screenshots.

However, you incorrect about the homepage....rushmore have listed accepted deposit methods with their bonuses for years, and neteller has not been accepted in all that time.

BTW was your unsuccessful PAB related to this issue or a different one?

STOP.
You are totally wrong and are giving misinformation. Neteller has been allowed as recently as a few months ago for bonuses. You really muddy the waters.
 

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
You've lost me Chu.

When the bonus was still in play, his deposit was subject to WR.

Once the bonus and winnings were removed, of course he could play whatever he wanted.....however I don't see where the OP said anything about playing BJ..??

@ Nifty - The OP stated he/she was playing blackjack and got ahead when he/she noticed the funds had been removed (this was in the first few lines of the opening post)...:)

It sounds like the OP went through an unreliable affiliate and is now paying the consequences. To the OP, if you wish to go through affiliate sites try using links from the affiliates here at CM. That way, when you run into a problem they can help you out (and the majority here will go above and beyond to help out their fellow meistermates).
 

greasemonkey

Banned User - flaming
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Location
USA
You've lost me Chu.

When the bonus was still in play, his deposit was subject to WR.

Once the bonus and winnings were removed, of course he could play whatever he wanted.....however I don't see where the OP said anything about playing BJ..??

Some weeks ago I signed up at rushmore casino via an affiliate who offered a special welcome bonus of 300%. I deposited 250$ via neteller. The bonus was credited so that I had a balance of 1000$ and I played blackjack and some minutes later my balance was 2000$. Suddenly I was disconnected from the casino and the bonus of 750$ and the winnings of 1000$ were removed so that only my deposit of 250$ was left. I talked to the live suppor


:rolleyes:
 

greasemonkey

Banned User - flaming
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Location
USA
I folllow Chu perfectly. do they honor the bonus or not? they can't have it both ways. They can't honor it and the 250 deposit be theirs then change their mind and keep all the money and just give back the deposit. If they want to take back the bonus and take off the wagering requirements then I guess that is OK although not very good. However, they are not entitled to also keep the winnings. That is ridiculous to think that they have this option. THEY issued the bonus. It is on THEM, not the OP. So even if you believe that they are allowed to take back the bonus then you cannot also logically think that they can also take back the winnings. If so then they would have also had to give back the deposit if the player lost, which he didn't. If a player makes a mistake many on this forum are like "oh well, you didn't read the terms or goofed up, expensive lesson learned". OK, well if that is the case then the same also must be said for the casino.
In this case they messed up. They need to be held accountable and MORE so since it is their business and not entertainment, than the player.
 
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