Question RTP on slots

souldragon

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Location
Kent
Hi,having been around the forum for a few weeks now i realise that members know a hell of a lot about the mechanics of slots.My question is that if a slot has a RTP of say 95%-if i bet £5 and win £100 then in theory the next £95 worth of bets will return nothing.I do realise that the RTP is based on thousands or even millions of spins but as a general rule is it best to quit a slot after a big win or is it just as likely that slot could throw up another big win a couple of spins later.So was just wondering if there was any type of strategy to employ or whether it is purely down to lady luck.Thanks everyone.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Hi,having been around the forum for a few weeks now i realise that members know a hell of a lot about the mechanics of slots.My question is that if a slot has a RTP of say 95%-if i bet £5 and win £100 then in theory the next £95 worth of bets will return nothing.I do realise that the RTP is based on thousands or even millions of spins but as a general rule is it best to quit a slot after a big win or is it just as likely that slot could throw up another big win a couple of spins later.So was just wondering if there was any type of strategy to employ or whether it is purely down to lady luck.Thanks everyone.

The Theoretical RTP (the figure published for the game) is calculated on one full cycle of a slot. In other words, when every combination on the reels has come up once, your RTP should be as advertised. Of course, since the spins themselves are random, each individual combination doesn't come up once and not repeat itself until all the others come up, so actually getting results that are consistent with the TRTP is difficult.

As you play more and more, your personal RTP will gravitate towards the TRTP as the law of large numbers etc kicks in. Now, you will obviously have times where you are ahead and behind, sometimes to large degrees, like a pendulum (variance dictates how wide the pendulum swings), but as time goes on your personal results will vary less and less as your wins and losses become a smaller and smaller percentage of your overall play e.g. if you play a slot for the first time and win $1000 on your first spin, your RTP will be huge overall, but after playing it for a year, another $1000 win will have a much smaller effect on your overall position.

The idea of winning $100 on your first $5 bet and then losing the next $95 of bets is erroneous.....not that it can't happen, but its not how things work. If slots did work this way, they would be unplayable, because you would only be assured of losing everything you won in the spins immediately following every time. You may as well have a slot that pays back .95c each and every time you bet $1.....you could never ever get ahead, but its the only way to ensure your RTP is spot on.

Just consider TRTP in terms of making decisions about which games to play. The higher the TRTP the better, but you can still lose your shirt on a 99% slot, as a result of variance....which someone else can take over explaining.
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
The Theoretical RTP (the figure published for the game) is calculated on one full cycle of a slot. In other words, when every combination on the reels has come up once, your RTP should be as advertised. Of course, since the spins themselves are random, each individual combination doesn't come up once and not repeat itself until all the others come up, so actually getting results that are consistent with the TRTP is difficult.

As you play more and more, your personal RTP will gravitate towards the TRTP as the law of large numbers etc kicks in. Now, you will obviously have times where you are ahead and behind, sometimes to large degrees, like a pendulum (variance dictates how wide the pendulum swings), but as time goes on your personal results will vary less and less as your wins and losses become a smaller and smaller percentage of your overall play e.g. if you play a slot for the first time and win $1000 on your first spin, your RTP will be huge overall, but after playing it for a year, another $1000 win will have a much smaller effect on your overall position.

The idea of winning $100 on your first $5 bet and then losing the next $95 of bets is erroneous.....not that it can't happen, but its not how things work. If slots did work this way, they would be unplayable, because you would only be assured of losing everything you won in the spins immediately following every time. You may as well have a slot that pays back .95c each and every time you bet $1.....you could never ever get ahead, but its the only way to ensure your RTP is spot on.

Just consider TRTP in terms of making decisions about which games to play. The higher the TRTP the better, but you can still lose your shirt on a 99% slot, as a result of variance....which someone else can take over explaining.


lol, or well, they could use the search bar up top; ts been explained to death
 

nisosbar

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Location
Right here
'Are the odds worse on spins/games which occur subsequent to big wins?'

If slots are fair and treat all players equally, then no - every spin has the exact same RTP %.

Some players, however, are luckier than others, and it will seem as if - to use the old Rod Stewart song - some guys have all the luck.

Does that make sense?
 

souldragon

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Location
Kent
Many thanks for that detailed reply Nifty,much appreciated.One other thing i wonder if you could help with-to find the RTP of an individual slot do i just download it and it will be printed somewhere on the paytable or elsewhere on the machine itself? Or are there websites which list all the different slots and theirindividual RTP's.Thanks again.
The Theoretical RTP (the figure published for the game) is calculated on one full cycle of a slot. In other words, when every combination on the reels has come up once, your RTP should be as advertised. Of course, since the spins themselves are random, each individual combination doesn't come up once and not repeat itself until all the others come up, so actually getting results that are consistent with the TRTP is difficult.

As you play more and more, your personal RTP will gravitate towards the TRTP as the law of large numbers etc kicks in. Now, you will obviously have times where you are ahead and behind, sometimes to large degrees, like a pendulum (variance dictates how wide the pendulum swings), but as time goes on your personal results will vary less and less as your wins and losses become a smaller and smaller percentage of your overall play e.g. if you play a slot for the first time and win $1000 on your first spin, your RTP will be huge overall, but after playing it for a year, another $1000 win will have a much smaller effect on your overall position.

The idea of winning $100 on your first $5 bet and then losing the next $95 of bets is erroneous.....not that it can't happen, but its not how things work. If slots did work this way, they would be unplayable, because you would only be assured of losing everything you won in the spins immediately following every time. You may as well have a slot that pays back .95c each and every time you bet $1.....you could never ever get ahead, but its the only way to ensure your RTP is spot on.

Just consider TRTP in terms of making decisions about which games to play. The higher the TRTP the better, but you can still lose your shirt on a 99% slot, as a result of variance....which someone else can take over explaining.
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
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Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
Many thanks for that detailed reply Nifty,much appreciated.One other thing i wonder if you could help with-to find the RTP of an individual slot do i just download it and it will be printed somewhere on the paytable or elsewhere on the machine itself? Or are there websites which list all the different slots and theirindividual RTP's.Thanks again.

You will find RTP information in the help file and/or on the paytables for slots by some software providers.

NetEnt slots for example, always list the RTP in the help file, as do Rival slots.

Jackpot Party (WMS slots) always have the RTP on the paytable.

Galewind Software (Pinnacle Casino) go down to the level of not just RTP, but also variance, the probabilities of hitting a progressive jackpot and all kinds of other information. They are the standard-bearers for the industry IMO when it comes to transparency.

Other software providers are not so forthcoming, Microgaming don't list the RTP anywhere in either the help files or on the paytables, but some carriers of their slots are now starting to maintain an RTP page (the Redbet casino, for example).

I would say that RTP information is more readily available than it was when I first started playing online nearly five years ago, but there's still some distance to travel in getting the information as easily accessible as it should be.

If you let us know which casino you're thinking of playing at and/or which slots by which software provider, we should be able to point you in the right direction, if it exists.
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
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Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
but you can still lose your shirt on a 99% slot, as a result of variance....which someone else can take over explaining.

I think the quickest way to summarise variance is to describe it as risk versus reward.

Low variance slots = Usually good playtime, bankroll should last a while, relatively low risk, but hard to win big. (Low risk, low reward potential.)

High variance slots = Far bigger wins to be had, but at the cost of far greater risk of quick bust outs with very little playtime. (High risk, high reward potential.)

Obviously it's not just a case of 'low' and 'high', there's a whole spectrum of variances from very low to very high, and everything inbetween - and then you have to chuck progressives into the mix :D

For anyone new to online slots I would say that understanding variance is absolutely critical, as a high variance slot, played at a stake inappropriately high for a certain bankroll, can be a horribly brutal (and expensive) experience.
 

souldragon

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Location
Kent
Thanks for that.I am thinking primarily of 32Red which i believe uses Microgaming.I was also considering any casinos that use Playtech as that software seems to be quite well regarded.From other posts i have read it seems that Break Da Bank Again should be avoided as being very high variance.
You will find RTP information in the help file and/or on the paytables for slots by some software providers.

NetEnt slots for example, always list the RTP in the help file, as do Rival slots.

Jackpot Party (WMS slots) always have the RTP on the paytable.

Galewind Software (Pinnacle Casino) go down to the level of not just RTP, but also variance, the probabilities of hitting a progressive jackpot and all kinds of other information. They are the standard-bearers for the industry IMO when it comes to transparency.

Other software providers are not so forthcoming, Microgaming don't list the RTP anywhere in either the help files or on the paytables, but some carriers of their slots are now starting to maintain an RTP page (the Redbet casino, for example).

I would say that RTP information is more readily available than it was when I first started playing online nearly five years ago, but there's still some distance to travel in getting the information as easily accessible as it should be.

If you let us know which casino you're thinking of playing at and/or which slots by which software provider, we should be able to point you in the right direction, if it exists.
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
Thanks for that.I am thinking primarily of 32Red which i believe uses Microgaming.I was also considering any casinos that use Playtech as that software seems to be quite well regarded.From other posts i have read it seems that Break Da Bank Again should be avoided as being very high variance.

There's no reason to avoid Break Da Bank Again (commonly abbreviated to BDBA), you just need to be aware that it's a very high variance slot, so when it pays big it pays VERY big, but on a cold streak it will hammer you.

32Red is a superb casino and you will not find a better Microgaming casino to play at, but you won't find RTP information for the slots anywhere on 32Red's site, or within MG's own 'help' files or paytables.

You can cross-reference slots you're playing at 32Red with Redbet's MG RTP list which can be found here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


As the RTP for MG slots is the same across all casinos that run them, but it is far from a satisfactory situation IMO. (Also note that Redbet have a very limited selection of MG slots, so most slots you'll play at 32Red have an effectively unknown RTP, that said it is generally acknowledged that MG slots have an RTP of around 95-96%, which is reasonable but not the best paying out there.)
 

Seventh777

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Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Location
Planet Tharg, dark side, where nothing grows.
Also, be aware of slots that rely heavily on a good feature return, this imho is what puts BDBA head and shoulders above the rest regarding a good hit (28 soft jackpots on this slot), not saying that an awesome x25 return multiplier in freespins wont happen, but alas, they are rarer than rocking horse shit :(.
 
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