RTG's - What have we learned can be controlled in the backend?

[takethemoney]

I know damn well those are rogue, but I was curious. I had no expectations. I also wanted to find out what was going on since the RJ on Mystic Dragon was at $41,000 and on many other their RJ's are over $30,000. Most other casinos hit way before this, so that is another case for rigged. I also noticed lots of 2 out of 3 to make a feature round, but the 3'd symbol seems to almost stop, then almost if nudged goes right by. You'd actually think the rogues would have their RTP set at the higher percentage, since they aren't going to pay anyway if someone wins.

 

[Rusty]

Outstanding post Dogboy, and pretty much sums up exactly how I feel about the whole "rigged" argument. Not only do players believe what they WANT to believe...the mind will rationalize things in strange ways. Maybe someone loses more than they should or wanted to...the brain starts finding "patterns" to explain away what has happened. You can make yourself see anything, if you really want to. The 5000 spins comment above is SO true. When I read posts of people who say they deposited $100, took $1 or $2 spins and busted....I shake my head. You are giving yourself only a minimum of 100 spins to hit something. Not near enough. You can easily bust out in minutes, and more than likely, you will...on ANY software.

This is why I deposit very small, and bet very small. Sometimes on RTG slots, I will start off only playing 10 lines or 10c bets. Because I know if the machine isn't hitting right away...I could be there for a while, lol. Betting smaller ensures I'm going to get more spins...thus giving me more of a chance to "maybe" hit something.

Don't want to ramble, but that really is a great post.

OK as someone with programming experience, slot design knowledge, playtesting experience for a large software company and most of all as a player who has played millions of spins (without auto) and a keen analytical mind I will give my thoughts. Again.

People really need to read between the lines in what Dogboy says and does not say.
He is honest to a point just like the slots are. Just like we all might be if we had a vested(invested) interest in a subject.
I have made many posts in the pasts highlighting the how, where and why of this.

Rigged is such a strong term and implies a player can never win, I don't believe any of the main software providers rig their slots in that way, it would be self defeating, though it sure will seem like they are rigged after a very big win.

The evidence for the slots to be dynamically weighted is overwhelming though I am sure they maintain an overall set RTP but then again that is the problem isn't it?

If anyone who has played RTG for any length of time honestly believes that all outcomes have equal chance on every spin and never change then God help you is all I can say.
If you want to see how they operate then simply play on after your winning streak instead of cashing out (redeposits over a period dilute the evidence) then calculate your RTP from the high point to bust.
You will see that your RTP falls way below anything previously over the same number of spins. There is also a very marked difference in scatter and wild symbol hit frequency.
Factual indisputable evidence which I can produce right here though I would rather not embarrass the RTG casinos concerned because they are amongst the better ones. That sounds odd but at some RTG you will be very hard pushed to hit big wins because the RTP is set much lower to begin with.

When Dogboy says the operator can not directly change the reel strips he is probably being honest but he neglects to say that they have no need to because the whole operation is automated and constant calculations are made through the use of algorithms which in turn dictate the weighting.
I have played many RTG slots where the reel layout on free spins has changed before my eyes. Sometimes in my favour sometimes not.
An example would be Ronin will sometimes have Two Ronin symbols on the last reel sometimes one in the same session.

That is fine and even legitimate but it shows how the weighting is dynamic because after the flip between win,win and lose,lose,lose I can guarantee I have never seen two Ronin symbols during the feature.

I actually think the RTP being altered only by request and through reel strip changes is a bit of a Red herring though or Dogboy disinformation if you like.
It certainly seems disingenuous.
There are times when important symbols simply go AWOL over hundreds of spins across different slots.
The only explanation I can consider for this can be that weighting has been applied to the probabilities of the stop positions and this applies universally to all slots.
In perspective it is like calling heads or tails 10 times correctly but always after such an event calling the next twelve incorrectly.
Or for every unlikely winning streak there is a more unlikely losing streak.
The system balancing itself.

All that said IMO RTG are as "fair" as any other software out there. In fact I would say their payouts in general are higher than MGS or Rival.
BTW if you think RTG are rigged then you should try Rival, laughable.
RTG are not rogue but Rival certainly are IMHO but it is just an opinion and not directed at a specific Casino, just the parameters the software operates in.

PS
In answer to the question.
Yes they are random but it is the wrong question.
The real question is are they fair?
Well they are at least as fair B&M slots, I will say that.

 

[takethemoney]

OK as someone with programming experience, slot design knowledge, playtesting experience for a large software company and most of all as a player who has played millions of spins (without auto) and a keen analytical mind I will give my thoughts. Again.

People really need to read between the lines in what Dogboy says and does not say.
He is honest to a point just like the slots are. Just like we all might be if we had a vested(invested) interest in a subject.
I have made many posts in the pasts highlighting the how, where and why of this.

Rigged is such a strong term and implies a player can never win, I don't believe any of the main software providers rig their slots in that way, it would be self defeating, though it sure will seem like they are rigged after a very big win.

The evidence for the slots to be dynamically weighted is overwhelming though I am sure they maintain an overall set RTP but then again that is the problem isn't it?

If anyone who has played RTG for any length of time honestly believes that all outcomes have equal chance on every spin and never change then God help you is all I can say.
If you want to see how they operate then simply play on after your winning streak instead of cashing out (redeposits over a period dilute the evidence) then calculate your RTP from the high point to bust.
You will see that your RTP falls way below anything previously over the same number of spins. There is also a very marked difference in scatter and wild symbol hit frequency.
Factual indisputable evidence which I can produce right here though I would rather not embarrass the RTG casinos concerned because they are amongst the better ones. That sounds odd but at some RTG you will be very hard pushed to hit big wins because the RTP is set much lower to begin with.

When Dogboy says the operator can not directly change the reel strips he is probably being honest but he neglects to say that they have no need to because the whole operation is automated and constant calculations are made through the use of algorithms which in turn dictate the weighting.
I have played many RTG slots where the reel layout on free spins has changed before my eyes. Sometimes in my favour sometimes not.
An example would be Ronin will sometimes have Two Ronin symbols on the last reel sometimes one in the same session.

That is fine and even legitimate but it shows how the weighting is dynamic because after the flip between win,win and lose,lose,lose I can guarantee I have never seen two Ronin symbols during the feature.

I actually think the RTP being altered only by request and through reel strip changes is a bit of a Red herring though or Dogboy disinformation if you like.
It certainly seems disingenuous.
There are times when important symbols simply go AWOL over hundreds of spins across different slots.
The only explanation I can consider for this can be that weighting has been applied to the probabilities of the stop positions and this applies universally to all slots.
In perspective it is like calling heads or tails 10 times correctly but always after such an event calling the next twelve incorrectly.
Or for every unlikely winning streak there is a more unlikely losing streak.
The system balancing itself.

All that said IMO RTG are as "fair" as any other software out there. In fact I would say their payouts in general are higher than MGS or Rival.
BTW if you think RTG are rigged then you should try Rival, laughable.
RTG are not rogue but Rival certainly are IMHO but it is just an opinion and not directed at a specific Casino, just the parameters the software operates in.

PS
In answer to the question.
Yes they are random but it is the wrong question.
The real question is are they fair?
Well they are at least as fair B&M slots, I will say that.

All we can do is suspect, as I doubt anyone in any authority or jurisdiction is going to run the slots over hundreds of millions of spins and then come back and confirm what we all suspect anyway.
We have no way to really trust and when we do it's blind faith in something unproven by anyone privy to what is really going on.

I have played RTG slots for many years now. I have played RSVS for many years know. I would know first hand if I am getting as good of game lately. I know for a fact that the slots were paying way better 2 years ago. Fact, but nobody connected wants to admit it.

 

[maphesto]

You'd actually think the rogues would have their RTP set at the higher percentage, since they aren't going to pay anyway if someone wins.

Nice one!

Maybe they can have a RTP of 110%?

 

[bjoslin]

Debby Downer? LMAO

The fact is takethemoney posts negative threads and posts about anything and everything negitive. Search the posts, it's like Debbie Downer on SNL! I don't know if software providers cheat, or casinos but why post the same shit over and over again without something to back it up? Geesh.. If I was a software provider and read this thread I'd be coming after your butt! Why must we go on and on about the same ole crap. If RTG cheats then all software providers do, so everyone needs to stop playing online. Not a good poll, rather disgusting to the industry and anyone affiliated with RTG or their casino's. JMP ....

 

[chuchu59]

Geez,

I didnt know Dogboy had left the forum. Hope it's only temporary.

Months ago, I discovered a glitch in the Diamond Dozen game. The White Diamond feature (also called Diamond Delight) did not have it's payout doubled on the last of the 12 free spins. I informed Dogboy of this and he rectified it after discovering that it was a coding error. Since then, the payouts have been corrected.

I encountered the error at 2 casinos and even though I explained it to them in fine details, they were adamant that the game was operating perfectly and actually lied to me stating that the feature is not doubled during free spins. I had no one else to address the issue but Dogboy. He had it corrected within a couple of days and also informed the casinos who paid me the difference in the payouts. What he couldnt do though was to compensate those who have been ripped off all these years since the Diamond Dozen game was born.

Fellas, we will be missing a lot of his technical expertise. I really hope he returns soon.

 

[silcnlayc]

Here is your answer

I didnt know Dogboy had left the forum.

Dogboy001: Yes, my thoughts exactly.

At the very least the poll has made it fundamentally clear that I'm wasting my time answering technical questions.
I'll leave it with my "players will believe what they want to believe" and withdraw.

All the best.

Woooof

 

[chuchu59]

IMO Dogboy left too hastily. He should have accepted the poll results with a pinch of salt and conduct the same poll 6 months later to see what has changed. Even a 6:4 ratio for those in favour of the slots being truly random would be a victory for him.

 

[kakata]

I honestly think that 6 months from now the poll , if redone, will be even worse for dogboy's taste.JMO

 

[Pinababy69]

Dogboy did not leave SOLELY because of poll results. Read the thread, in particular Simmo's comments, and Dogboy's agreement with him. The poll was just the icing on the cake.

And yeah, I'll miss his input as well. Hopefully he'll reconsider at some point.

 

[silcnlayc]

Pinababy69 Dogboy did not leave SOLELY because of poll results. Read the thread, in particular Simmo's comments, and Dogboy's agreement with him. The poll was just the icing on the cake.

Yes chuchu, please read the whole thread. It is an interesting read.

Rusty: People really need to read between the lines in what Dogboy says and does not say.
He is honest to a point just like the slots are. Just like we all might be if we had a vested(invested) interest in a subject.

I most liked this statement, because I agree with it to the highest degree. One MUST think for themselves in the end I believe.

.

 

[takethemoney]

Yes chuchu, please read the whole thread. It is an interesting read.I most liked this statement, because I agree with it to the highest degree. One MUST think for themselves in the end I believe.

It's not always what we are told, but what we are not told, we should seek out.