RTG RTP Conspiracy (tin foil hat zone)

[takethemoney]

How many of you have actually hit 5 white diamonds on Diamond dozen. How about 5 Cleopatras? 5 Achilles? Over the years I have millions of spins on those slots. I'm inclined to believe it never happens. Does anyone have a screen shot of hitting these, personally?

 

[daveboz]

Speaking of Blackjack

On any rtg to see that its a less than random system... Or if its random, the card values used are random in value, but when it comes to display, they come up as a paired face more often than is mathematically possible... I am serious... Play 20 hands on play money... QQ, KK, JJ, see any of those?? Either u or the dealer will have them, and often, when u have one of them, the dealer will have one too...

We already know that RTG has loose ethical boundaries. We know this bc of the Fruit Frenzy issue... We know this because many of us can "feel" the difference between the way it was and the way it is... And I dont know about u guys, but I either win-win-win or its gone betting small real quick... And lastly, we know they toe the line between business people and accessories to criminal groups bc of the licenses that they continue to renew... They have very little opinion of their target market, bc their research has deduced that even after myriad examples of deception and in the case of licensee's, fraud, there is still a hungry customer base even in this over saturated marketplace, that will be there with some cash to burn and expectations as high as their impulse control ability is low...

So that being said... I will agree with nifty on one specific point (or sentence really):

We are not going to be receiving an admission of anything interesting from RTG...

And I agree with the RTG Conspiracy Theorists as well, just because we get the answer we can't accept, we shouldn't stop the debate; already in the course of this thread things have popped out at me that make this more interesting than I originally thought it would be... And I have to admit, while I lean one way atm on this subject, I am not 100% convinced of anything, save for the inevitability of my taxes, my baldness, and my mortality...

That being said, accepting the answer given as 'their answer' is a horse of a different color from accepting "their answer as THE answer"...

So consider this: Given what we know of greed, how could anyone assume that mostof these sites/platforms are not rigged in some deceptive, unfair, or outright cheating way to increase HA%? You know how many people I talk to who are weekly depositors at a place and when I ask them, "So I hear their cashouts are slow?", a typical response from the more candid of players is, "I wouldn't know one way or the other but I love their...".

At the end of the day, except for the horribly addicted, its amusement... So lets not judge people because they make deposits at places whilst likewise believing the place to be less than fair... That doesn't make them an idiot, that makes them a gambler... GL to YOU fair gamblers!

Ever play blackjack at BODOG? LOL!

It is rigged for sure to guarantee specific outcomes. However, what's funny is in the grand scheme of things over a period of time YOU too will get your share of lucky hits too. I've played losing 6-7 hands in a row and then I win 7 hands in a row, always seem to end up even at Bodog blackjack. It's ridiculous though how dealer will push or draw to 21 with 4-5 cards lol. Also, notice if you get a BJ more often than not the dealer gets one the next hand.

I can't wait for my trip to Vegas in June to compare those 99.4% VP machines over a 4 hour period to my performance at these RTG sites.

 

[sweiger]

I don't know what to believe.

If you want RTG to be rigged, it's rigged.
If you want it not to be rigged, it's not..

The only people that really knows, are the ones who wrote the software.

 

[Nifty29]

How many of you have actually hit 5 white diamonds on Diamond dozen. How about 5 Cleopatras? 5 Achilles? Over the years I have millions of spins on those slots. I'm inclined to believe it never happens. Does anyone have a screen shot of hitting these, personally?

I've seen 5 Achilles and 5 cleos at inetbet (in the past few year) but never 5 white diamonds.

I remember reading somewhere that the odds for hitting these kinds of things can be up to 10 million to 1 depending on reel length....so you've got some work to do still.

It would be within expectations to never see them.

 

[greasemonkey]

I don't agree.

If anyone plays online casinos believing they are cheating and lying, they may not be an idiot.....but it certainly doesn't add much weight to their opinion, as they obviously don't really believe it.

How ridiculous does this statement sound:

"Online casinos cheat and I've even seen 'proof', and I believe they have been doing so for a long time. Now, if you'll excuse me I'm off to play at one right now."

Well this is exactly how it looks when members post passionately about how badly they are being ripped off etc, only to post the next day about how they played at XX casino.

I can tell you now - if I really believed all these theories were true i.e. all casinos cheat as SOP, then I would stop playing...as anyone else who really believed all this stuff would also do.

Yes, it makes them a gambler. An ignorant and careless one. After all, it's hard enough to win when everything is completely above board, let alone playing games that you know are cheating. Sorry, but that really is stupid.

Think bigger Nifty. An average player may quit Or maybe some people use that to their advantage and can beat the software precisely because it isn't random.
If I bet on soccer games that are fixed I still can say that the game is rigged even if I bet correctly. That doesn't make my opinion any less relevant. Perhaps it would make it MORE relevant, eh?

 

[Papa-ya]

On any rtg to see that its a less than random system... Or if its random, the card values used are random in value, but when it comes to display, they come up as a paired face more often than is mathematically possible... I am serious... Play 20 hands on play money... QQ, KK, JJ, see any of those?? Either u or the dealer will have them, and often, when u have one of them, the dealer will have one too...

We already know that RTG has loose ethical boundaries. We know this bc of the Fruit Frenzy issue... We know this because many of us can "feel" the difference between the way it was and the way it is... And I dont know about u guys, but I either win-win-win or its gone betting small real quick... And lastly, we know they toe the line between business people and accessories to criminal groups bc of the licenses that they continue to renew... They have very little opinion of their target market, bc their research has deduced that even after myriad examples of deception and in the case of licensee's, fraud, there is still a hungry customer base even in this over saturated marketplace, that will be there with some cash to burn and expectations as high as their impulse control ability is low...

So that being said... I will agree with nifty on one specific point (or sentence really):

We are not going to be receiving an admission of anything interesting from RTG...

And I agree with the RTG Conspiracy Theorists as well, just because we get the answer we can't accept, we shouldn't stop the debate; already in the course of this thread things have popped out at me that make this more interesting than I originally thought it would be... And I have to admit, while I lean one way atm on this subject, I am not 100% convinced of anything, save for the inevitability of my taxes, my baldness, and my mortality...

That being said, accepting the answer given as 'their answer' is a horse of a different color from accepting "their answer as THE answer"...

So consider this: Given what we know of greed, how could anyone assume that mostof these sites/platforms are not rigged in some deceptive, unfair, or outright cheating way to increase HA%? You know how many people I talk to who are weekly depositors at a place and when I ask them, "So I hear their cashouts are slow?", a typical response from the more candid of players is, "I wouldn't know one way or the other but I love their...".

At the end of the day, except for the horribly addicted, its amusement... So lets not judge people because they make deposits at places whilst likewise believing the place to be less than fair... That doesn't make them an idiot, that makes them a gambler... GL to YOU fair gamblers!

Exactly and well said! People being what we are will always accept the less than favorable and do it time and time again.

Take groceries for instance, do you buy the organic carrots at $3.50 a lb, or the non organic at $1.00 a lb. The majority will always settle for the lessor, because the price mainpulates their thinking of getting the best deal for their money.

Seeing winners in the screenshots does convince that wins can be had, so many players will lose thousands, just to win hundreds, to acheive that feeling of being a winner. It is just a sort of twisted mental perception we all have to some degree or another.

So if players/gamblers aren't happy with something, or feel it is not acting fair, they will continue the battle hoping to be the victor one day. So players press on, because in our minds, we have grown to think we can beat anything, sooner or later.

I have learned to curb most of this ingrained thinking and remembering my past great dissapointments have made it easier to walk away from the things that I can't find victory in and accept the defeat. Because if it takes your entire army and it's resources to defeat the foe, then the victory has already cost to much.

I may not understand the back end of things, but the front end is all I need to keep things in perspective. Keep it simple, only play for fun when you have money you don't care if you lose.

 

[DiamondGeezer]

On any rtg to see that its a less than random system... Or if its random, the card values used are random in value, but when it comes to display, they come up as a paired face more often than is mathematically possible... I am serious... Play 20 hands on play money... QQ, KK, JJ, see any of those?? Either u or the dealer will have them, and often, when u have one of them, the dealer will have one too...

It is quite ridiculous making these accusations against RTG BJ without a shred of proof. If you want to prove BJ is rigged you need to set out your agenda before you play rather than after. For example pick a number at random and see how often it comes up in a big sample size. Or pick a card you view as suspicious and study that.

Before you guys run away with yourselves don't forget that Bodog was recommended at the Wizard of Odds when they were fully RTG.

Looking at the screenie it's obvious it's some kind of management tool rather than a super user manipulation system. If it really was capable of changing HE do you really think it would be via a screen that left such a blatent trail? Surely if there was super user manipulation it would be via some kind of low level code entry onto the system in such a way as could not be detected.

I think you conspiracy guys have had your pants pulled down by that Casino33 fool who for whatever reason wanted to do damage to RTG casinos. He sold you a pup knowing that there would be many takers for the theory he was proposing.

That said it's always good to be vigilant. There will always be a doubt about RTG until they come to be regulated in europe. I am always open to arguments but I personally don't think the RTG super user account is a smoking gun. Infact iI think it's more of a red herring.

 

[Nifty29]

It is quite ridiculous making these accusations against RTG BJ without a shred of proof. If you want to prove BJ is rigged you need to set out your agenda before you play rather than after. For example pick a number at random and see how often it comes up in a big sample size. Or pick a card you view as suspicious and study that.

Before you guys run away with yourselves don't forget that Bodog was recommended at the Wizard of Odds when they were fully RTG.

Looking at the screenie it's obvious it's some kind of management tool rather than a super user manipulation system. If it really was capable of changing HE do you really think it would be via a screen that left such a blatent trail? Surely if there was super user manipulation it would be via some kind of low level code entry onto the system in such a way as could not be detected.

I think you conspiracy guys have had your pants pulled down by that Casino33 fool who for whatever reason wanted to do damage to RTG casinos. He sold you a pup knowing that there would be many takers for the theory he was proposing.

That said it's always good to be vigilant. There will always be a doubt about RTG until they come to be regulated in europe. I am always open to arguments but I personally don't think the RTG super user account is a smoking gun. Infact iI think it's more of a red herring.

It's so refreshing to hear another voice of reason in this thread.

Did you remember to collect your hat on the way in?

If not, there's a few here with plenty of spares...

 

[3mptyseat]

Why would it be so sinister to control HE? It not like its illegal. Oh wait, but the service they are providing to their largest marketplace is... And the banking that they facilitate to serve said marketplace is punishable by decades in prison... So I am sure the reason people are thinking its even possible to concieve that RTG has the power in its software to manipulate even static odds like video poker is all just based on irrational desires to complain...

Or, Its just crazy to talk to think that they are not doing so. Wait, that wasn't fair... It's illogical to assume that any given operator wouldn't be able to.

What would stop a software provider that renews the likes of plenty jackpots group license from doing anything in their power to make their licensee's happy and therefore, keeping a nice big file cabinet full of accounts receivable? Nothing at the moment...

No laws in place in the majority of the markets that the Real Time Gaming operators serve. No moral code to keep them on the up'n'up. And no lack of hungry clientele to set them straight like surly a dry up in deposits would... So I don't really see why anyone would assume the capabilities aren't at least built in the back end... It just doesn't make sense to me the other way...

 

[Nifty29]

Why would it be so sinister to control HE? It not like its illegal. Oh wait, but the service they are providing to their largest marketplace is... And the banking that they facilitate to serve said marketplace is punishable by decades in prison... So I am sure the reason people are thinking its even possible to concieve that RTG has the power in its software to manipulate even static odds like video poker is all just based on irrational desires to complain...

Or, Its just crazy to talk to think that they are not doing so. Wait, that wasn't fair... It's illogical to assume that any given operator wouldn't be able to.

What would stop a software provider that renews the likes of plenty jackpots group license from doing anything in their power to make their licensee's happy and therefore, keeping a nice big file cabinet full of accounts receivable? Nothing at the moment...

No laws in place in the majority of the markets that the Real Time Gaming operators serve. No moral code to keep them on the up'n'up. And no lack of hungry clientele to set them straight like surly a dry up in deposits would... So I don't really see why anyone would assume the capabilities aren't at least built in the back end... It just doesn't make sense to me the other way...

Im can't speak for anyone else, but I've never said that they can't change RTP/HE.

We KNOW there are three different settings for slots, and at least two VP settings I know of.....which is fine with me. No big deal there.

What I'm saying is that the screenie does not even BEGIN to prove that secret cheat protocols exist. Some say that the operator can type anything into that HE box.....well how do we know that there isn't a certain acceptable range within the realm of what I discussed above? We don't, because nobody has come here and explained every little detail of how it works. We have an explanation from 2 RTG sources, one of which has no reason to lie.

Red herring is a good analogy.....and some are tucking in like they havent eaten in years.

 

[chayton]

Interesting that someone brought up the Wizard of Odds....anyone showed the screenshot to him?

 

[Lucky Loser]

How many of you have actually hit 5 white diamonds on Diamond dozen. How about 5 Cleopatras? 5 Achilles? Over the years I have millions of spins on those slots. I'm inclined to believe it never happens. Does anyone have a screen shot of hitting these, personally?

I got 5 diamonds during freespins about 2 weeks ago. Last 2 diamonds were 3's.

It paid around 3.5k

 

[hakapuku]

It would be crazy thing if software provider would let any casino operator to fix the house edge of the games. The probability of this to become known to a wide public would be very high. So, my opinion, the games may only be rigged by software provider itself and only few ppl would be involved (like 3-4 persons including senior programmer).

 

[daveboz]

It would be crazy thing if software provider would let any casino operator to fix the house edge of the games. The probability of this to become known to a wide public would be very high. So, my opinion, the games may only be rigged by software provider itself and only few ppl would be involved (like 3-4 persons including senior programmer).

What about those RTG software casinos that own their own source code?

 

[Nate]

]It would be crazy thing if software provider would let any casino operator to fix the house edge of the games[/B]. The probability of this to become known to a wide public would be very high. So, my opinion, the games may only be rigged by software provider itself and only few ppl would be involved (like 3-4 persons including senior programmer).

What's so crazy about it? Changing RTP on any slot is as easy as 123 in B&M Casinos. What makes an online Casino exempt from this... considering there is almost no regulation?

Nate

 

[hakapuku]

What's so crazy about it? Changing RTP on any slot is as easy as 123 in B&M Casinos. What makes an online Casino exempt from this... considering there is almost no regulation?

Nate

Changing RTP on slots is considered a legal action. But changing HE% for Blackjack, for example, is a crime. Now if somebody commits that crime he must be sure nobody knows it. If software providers inform anybody who buys their software (or even only plans to buy it) that their software has a cheating option - what is the chance that one day one of these clients will publish this information to the wide public? With hundreds of clients that RTG has it would be impossible to keep that information secret.

 

[Nate]

Changing RTP on slots is considered a legal action. But changing HE% for Blackjack, for example, is a crime. Now if somebody commits that crime he must be sure nobody knows it. If software providers inform anybody who buys their software (or even only plans to buy it) that their software has a cheating option - what is the chance that one day one of these clients will publish this information to the wide public? With hundreds of clients that RTG has it would be impossible to keep that information secret.

It would work out to the same thing. Online blackjack is RTP driven (so is Roulette). They are Slot Machines and the RTP (HE%) can be changed.

Nate

 

[daveboz]

Playing for Fun vs. Real LOL1

Just finished blowing thru my semi weekly comp money XX casino, nada gone boom. Switched to for fun, hit three four of a kinds (one on draw), 3 FH, four straights, half dozen 3 kinds in about 15 minutes.

You also get little hesitations and update flashes from when they move you off the main server to control your individual payout. It's fairly simple, the casino is monitored from a control room. They know who's playing, takes a couple of seconds. They also read these boards and take revenge accordingly.

 

[Casinomeister]

Just finished blowing thru my semi weekly comp money XX casino, nada gone boom. Switched to for fun, hit three four of a kinds (one on draw), 3 FH, four straights, half dozen 3 kinds in about 15 minutes.

You also get little hesitations and update flashes from when they move you off the main server to control your individual payout. It's fairly simple, the casino is monitored from a control room. They know who's playing, takes a couple of seconds. They also read these boards and take revenge accordingly.

Statements like this are utter nonsense. If you want to make up bullshit, post it elsewhere. Newbies (and oldtimers) read this BS and wonder WTF.

Nominations to put a fork into this thread? Me thinks it's done.

 

[silcnlayc]

Statements like this are utter nonsense. If you want to make up bullshit, post it elsewhere. Newbies (and oldtimers) read this BS and wonder WTF.

Nominations to put a fork into this thread? Me thinks it's done.

Double ditto!

.

 

[Nate]

Statements like this are utter nonsense. If you want to make up bullshit, post it elsewhere. Newbies (and oldtimers) read this BS and wonder WTF.

Nominations to put a fork into this thread? Me thinks it's done.

I agree on the bolded statement.

IMPO I feel that the answer received from 'RTG' did not address the screenshot in its entirety. The response was irrelevant to the instructions on the screen. Nobody will come forward and admit that - we are beating a dead horse. For those who saw the reality of the screen shot - Kudos to you!

Nate

 

[lots0]

Nate I think we all know that RTG is not going to say anything more about this(at least not officially).

Was RTG evasive in their response. I think so. But what do they gain by getting into a long drawn out trash session on CM? You see what is going here now, can you imaging what the posts would look like if RTG were to 'engage' people on this board...

However, I also think that only the naive don't understand that RTP percentages can be adjusted by ALL the online casino operators(no matter the software). Just like ALL the land based casinos adjust the RTP on their slots and video games.

 

[Emmeline]

You also get little hesitations and update flashes from when they move you off the main server to control your individual payout. It's fairly simple, the casino is monitored from a control room. They know who's playing, takes a couple of seconds. They also read these boards and take revenge accordingly.

Oboy, I guess in my case, the control rooms at every reputable rtg casino messed it up for years. The RTGs actually enable my regular losing journeys to MG, Rivals and others.
Then I run home to get my stats in order
Thanks RTG casinos

Microgaming, that's another story, and now I have a picture to prove there is infact a control room from where they monitor my every spin.

Emme

 

[Nate]

However, I also think that only the naive don't understand that RTP percentages can be adjusted by ALL the online casino operators(no matter the software). Just like ALL the land based casinos adjust the RTP on their slots and video games.

That's exactly the point - That is what the screen does for coupons, but it is being labeled as something else...

Oh well...

Nate

 

[slotmaster]

I will add another theory,lol

Has anyone else notice that say you have done well, but then can't hit anything and you think you have cleaned the slots out and then uninstall and reinstall the software you start doing good again?

Have noticed that in the past a few occassions myself