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royal joker support dont have a clue

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by zebedy, Mar 12, 2009.

    Mar 12, 2009
  1. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree
    all this trouble to try and verify my id documents to see if i can play there, i guess its lucky i didnt deposit when i got the all clear,as i received another email an hour later saying they now need a picture id,:mad:





    since all this info was in one email i guess they only read the 1st line:rolleyes:
    id already told them i dont have a DL or PP


    yay i can deposit and will be ok cashing out,

    errr or will i

     
  2. Mar 12, 2009
  3. hobobiker

    hobobiker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    maybe they are just trying to live up to their name.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Mar 12, 2009
  5. Royal Joker

    Royal Joker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Europe

    Hi zebedy,

    Thank you for your valued comments. Our customer support team have responded via Email, in an effort to clear up this issue.

    Regards,
    Teresa
     
  6. Mar 12, 2009
  7. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree

    yes it has been cleared up. acount closed you cant get anymore cleared up than that :D
     
    4 people like this.
  8. Mar 12, 2009
  9. AudiManinBoro

    AudiManinBoro Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    Sales
    Location:
    UK
    Bad customer support is a no no for me when joining a new casino. Ill be staying clear of this outfit.
     
  10. Mar 13, 2009
  11. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    So we are clear, no drivers licence, no passport, well go away, we don't want your custom.

    FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, it is ILLEGAL to have a drivers licence if you believe you cannot drive due to a medical condition, or have been told by DVLA that you are unfit due to sickness or disability. You are not even allowed a PROVISIONAL licence. IT IS NOT AN ID, it is a document that shows you have either met the standards reguired to be let loose on the roads, or are learning to pass the test. Drivers may even be disqualified through commiting motoring offences, and hence have had their "ID documents":rolleyes: confiscated to prevent their misuse as proof of fitness to drive.

    The FIRST set of emails was the competent responce, not the "apology".

    Now if you will ONLY accept non-drivers who have a passport (available, even if you don't particularly need it for travel), then to sign off with

    :lolup::lolup:

    So we have the online casino industry, PARTICULARY suited to the disabled who like to gamble, but have serious difficulties going to a real casino, yet expect them to have a driving license (many disabled don't), or travel (again, prohibitive travel insurance terms mean that many disabled people do not regularly go abroad, and thus have not obtained passports). A passport should NOT be necessary for "foreign travel" between their house and the casino servers on the internet, but it seems in many cases it is, and MOST players ONLY find this out at the time of a cash-out. This kind of crap is going to seriously hinder expansion of the industry, as to most people the craziness "catch22" situations that are a regular occurance simply look like a rogue industry imposing impossible conditions for receiving payments.

    The industry needs to get together and discuss the very pertinent issue of how they deal with players who do not have passports and do not drive (or are not even ALLOWED to drive). If the answer is "we don't want you", then this MUST be made crystal clear BEFORE they start depositing, not after. Most new players do not even know this will be an issue until they come to cash-out unless they have seen this issue raised time and time again in the forums.
    One solution has already been tried, have the player photographed holding the other ID documents they have provided. It seems a bit of nonsense, since how exactly does the photograph "validate" the documents, since the casino is NOT going to have the chance to MEET the player and compare his appearance to the photograph provided (the reason photo documents, such as driving licenses and passports, were designed to include a photo).

    There are other methods of verifying documents provided, and they are even BETTER that asking the player for a photo.

    1) Check player's registered name & address with the electoral register. Player MUST be 18+ to gamble, and this makes it a LEGAL REQUIREMENT for him to add his/her name to the electoral register at that address.

    2) Do a search at a credit reference agency to double check. If the player uses a credit card, this should show at one or more of the agencies.

    3) Send a "password" by post to their address, and require this to be used to validate their account for deposits. When used in the past, this method received complaints because it took too long to arrive, however, this was incompetence, not a natural thing. It could not arrive UNTIL it was first put into the post, which is where the "incompetence" lies.

    These would ONLY be needed as backup, and would salvage those non-driving and non-travelling players that are otherwise turned away.

    If the industry got together, they could even have a central scheme, perhaps run by eCogra, who would receive all the documentation from players, and issue them with an eCogra certified PHOTO card which they could then send to individual casinos in lieu of the usual passport and photo ID. The player would then send a proof of address independent from the eCogra card, just as is the case with a drivers licence.

    Interestingly, this could affect ME, and I HAVE NOT BEEN TOLD:mad:


    I have an Intertops account, but do not recall EVER sending in documents as I only ever used Neteller to deposit and withdraw. Intertops were hapy recently for me to deposit, and would surely have sprung the "now need documents even though you used Neteller" on me had I won. Now, they have created for me (without permission) an account at Royal Joker. Now, AFFILIATES, this means you have been BYPASSED - I CANNOT open an account through any affiliate site should they go to the trouble of putting together a review of them, and I read it & decide to play there. In effect, the viability of the affiliates' businessess is being harmed by the practice of accounts being pre-opened for potential players by the casino groups.

    There is ANOTHER aspect too, players who no longer have the email address they used at Intertops, probably because they have not played for a while, will NEVER KNOW they have had a Royal Joker account opened for them, and they may later open one themselves and be accused of multiple account fraud, and will have to fight past the "guilty till proved innocent" BS to prove the earlier account was NOT their doing, and was NEVER used.


    For me? Well, it was pre-opened in EUROS, but the UK STILL USES THE POUND, and had I opened my OWN account, I would have selected POUNDS since this avoids all those nasty foreign exchange fees - but at least I have a drivers license, although I wasn't sure DVLA would let me, since I have a "reportable" condition, and I can only have a reviewable 3 year license. It is helpful to know in advance, as I now do, that if DVLA takes this away, they also take away my right to gamble online at Intertops and Royal Joker, and probably most of the rest.
     
    5 people like this.
  12. Mar 13, 2009
  13. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    Love it Zebedy....and THAT'S how you deal with casinos who can't be arsed to know what is going on within their own operation. :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Mar 13, 2009
  15. big fish

    big fish Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks for the heads up :thumbsup:
     
  16. Mar 13, 2009
  17. Royal Joker

    Royal Joker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Europe
    Dear zebedy,

    It is mandatory with most if not all online casinos and even land-based casinos, that a photo ID is necessary before payouts can be processed. We have advised you most recently, that any valid photo ID would be sufficient and we do acknowledge the fact that you don't have a Driver's License nor a Passport.

    Regards,
    Teresa
     
  18. Mar 13, 2009
  19. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree
    hi teresa
    if i would have been told that from the start everything would have been fine,
    i would have been ok with it, but i was told one thing then another, what if i had deposited after being given the all clear, only to be told later oppps sorry the CS made a mistake, what then ?

    after i closed the account i received this,
    i guess your not from the uk because i believe there is no such thing the only photo id cards are driving licence/ passport, maybe some students have id cards but im a bit old to be a student so i would know,
    in the uk we are not required by law to have photo id

    firstly im not talking about land based casinos, secondly it just isnt true i play at several other casinos including mg and they have accepted what documents i sent them without any photo id
    anyways why photo id will you come to my house verify its actually me on the picture? :D

    what xxssed me off was getting the runaround,
     
  20. Mar 13, 2009
  21. Royal Joker

    Royal Joker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support
    Location:
    Europe
    Dear zebedy,

    Further to any e-mail received, please note that it is clearly stated on our website.
    Documents are required in order to request any withdrawals from our casino.

    Teresa
     
  22. Mar 13, 2009
  23. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Does it CLEARLY specify PHOTO documents? Does it stress that players SHOULD NOT DEPOSIT unless they are CERTAIN they can provide a photo ID.

    Most problems are due to this being sprung at time of WITHDRAWAL, and the terms being a generic "documents will be required", making it a perfectly reasonable assumtion to make that the government issued documents the player possesses should be good enough for the casino if they are good enough for proving who they are in day to day life.

    As I am from the UK , I will be on the industries a$$ over this rule since a photo requirement makes no sense at all, it CANNOT BE VERIFIED since you NEVER MEET FACE TO FACE. The ONLY thing that matters is the validity of the proof of the player's details that CAN be verified against other sources, and this requires no photo to somehow make it "better".

    The problem is that casinos do NOT simply accept "any photo ID", but insist it has to be "Government issued", and in the UK there is NO OTHER UNIVERSAL DOCUMENT that fits this criteria other than a "new" driving license and a passport.

    The arrogant assumption of "everyone has an ID card - what's the problem" only pours petrol onto this smouldering debate. UK land casinos get along just fine with what the UK government provides. I am sure I even read somewhere that land casinos cannot even insist on seeing an ID, and CANNOT withhold funds because a patron refuses a request to provide ID.

    Until we actually achieve the utopian state where "everybody has an ID card", this issue will continue to bite industry a$$es. My suggestions of having some industry body resolve this problem by themselves issuing player verification cards never seems to be taken seriously, yet it could solve these thorny ID issues at a stroke for regular players at least.
    Despite being repeatedly asked, no casino has even sought to explain WHY a photo is so crucial, yet it can NEVER be held up and verified to be a "true likeness" of the player at a face to face meeting. Given this, there is no reason why other secure government issued documents, along with utility bills and address access confirmation techniques, could not do the same ID verificaton job.

    If this really WERE a matter of international agreed procedure, then us Brits would ALREADY have been forcibly given ID cards.

    Currently, players without a photo ID cannot play at all at those online casinos that insist on them.

    I would like to see an EU DISABLED person take an EU licensed casino to court over discrimination because being disabled prevented them from possessing any form of photo document issued by the government, and as a result were denied access to onlione gambling. Damages can be punitive in such cases, as discrimination is a hot topic, and is believed by some to be deeply rooted, and needing the drastic medicine of punitive damages to force a change in attitudes. The "no-win, no-fee" brigade would love this kind of thing. Discrimination cases have been WON, and organisations forced to provide access, even when no disabled person would EVER seek to use that access, purely because, should a disabled person want to get in, they could not.

    Perhaps we should set Royal Joker a challenge. They MUST identify a document, other than passport or drivers license, that they will accept from a UK player. This document MUST be universally available (so not a student card, young persons railcard etc), and it must be something that does not commit the bearer to any kind of contract (such as a railway season ticket, that also has a photo to prevent misuse by other people).

    If they cannot, then they have to accept that their policies discriminate against certain portions of the UK population, who have no way of meeting the requirements, and thus rendering the term impossible to comply with.

    Since the UK recognises, and regulates this industry, then the industry itself can approach the UK Gambling Authority, and make it clear that this is an issue, and that there needs to be a UK Photo card available to all that will be accepted as proof of ID in online casinos.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Mar 13, 2009
  25. pmhcfc

    pmhcfc Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Not working
    Location:
    UK
    Hmm- I've been playing online for over 8 years, payouts from many casinos and have never had to supply a photo ID.
     
    2 people like this.
  26. Mar 13, 2009
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Sooner or later, you will be asked for one.

    I just watched a Panorama TV program, and in it a Home Office minister said that FOREIGN Nationals will have to carry an ID card to get in, presumably in addition to their passports and visas. This will not be implemented till 2014, and this is a PRIORITY over the general issuance of a photo ID to all UK citizens. That looks like a MINIMUM of 5 years of a$$ worrying for casinos who assume EVERYBODY must have photo ID as a government requirement just to be allowed to exist. True for much (if not all) of the rest of the EU, but NOT TRUE here in the UK, where it seems a long way off.

    I can just imagine someone applying for a passport, and being asked, "where are you going to be travelling?", and answering "Oh! I'm not going abroad, but xxxxxxxx online casino owes me ????? and simply refuses to pay me unless I send them a copy of some form of photo ID - so I need a passport since I cannot drive - there is nothing else that will do, I've tried. Could you fast track it, as ?????? is one hell of a lot of money"
     

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