Rogue List

[AussieDave]

Funny - they even have a "protected by" copyscape logo on the site. It should be entitled, "Copyscrape"

 

[dominique]

Dom take a look at the site in question.

You'll see the configuration is set up (in my opinion) to cloak content...
However, google is the one and only one to really decide what is and is not 'cloaking',

I would if I knew all about cloaking techniques - but I don't. I should learn about it though so I know it when I see it.

 

[lots0]

Dom just try to look at the source code on the site and you'll see what I mean.

 

[aksana]

Dom just try to look at the source code on the site and you'll see what I mean.

Could you tell me what interesting did you find in my source code? All source code was programmed by me, and I don't see any strange things there. I use php, mysql database, css. Is it not allowed?

You said that I was a link spammer, you said that I used blackhat SEO, you said that I had a spam network, you said that I was a Russian front of spammers affiliated with 888.com and moreover you said that I promoted them exclusively (I have never promoted them exclusively!!!)- nothing was proved by real facts. And now you say that I use cloaking techniques, how can I use them if I even know nothing about such techniques.

Yes, I took a list of casinos from CM. And it was only an alphabetical list of casinos, I didn't copy any other content from his site, because I'm not a content thief. And I have already apologized for that.


And moreover I looked at your source code, lots0. And from your words I can say that you use cloaking technologies.

 

[dominique]

Dom just try to look at the source code on the site and you'll see what I mean.

Ok, so one can't see the source code. But that can be a protection against content theft?

 

[aksana]

Ok, so one can't see the source code. But that can be a protection against content theft?

Understand nothing. Dom, can you see my source code? I didn't disable to view my source code. I could see it in FF3, IE7, Opera without any problems. Do you have any difficulties to view my source code?

 

[dominique]

No, I can't see it. Using IE7. I think it may be part of the copyscape protection?

 

[aksana]

No, I can't see it. Using IE7. I think it may be part of the copyscape protection?

Of course, no, I don't have any copyscape protections. I can see my source from all browsers. It's very strange, ok, I'll ask other members to check my source. Thanks for letting me know.

You may try to view my source code in Firefox, Opera, Safari. I've just checked, it's viewable in all browsers. I don't understand why you can't see it in IE, maybe it's IE bug?

 

[dominique]

Ok, I just read at GPWA - yes I was using the right-click to view source.

I can see source if I go through IE page tools...

 

[lots0]

Ok, so one can't see the source code. But that can be a protection against content theft?

Not really, because the source is visible using other methods, than right click. That's how the browsers are able to render the source. If the browser is able to render the source... the content can be copied and stolen.

More like it would prevent a script (or translator) from EASILY being able locate "duplicate" content.

You said that I was a link spammer, you said that I used blackhat SEO, you said that I had a spam network, you said that I was a Russian front of spammers affiliated with 888.com and moreover you said that I promoted them exclusively (I have never promoted them exclusively!!!)- nothing was proved by real facts. And now you say that I use cloaking techniques, how can I use them if I even know nothing about such techniques.

Ya that perdy much sums up what I think. With a couple of exceptions;

1. I never said you promoted 888 exclusively... I believe the exact wording I used was "almost exclusively". I guess I could have been a little more clear in my choice of words, sorry.

2. I said you are a link spammer. But I also said that it is not up to me to decide if you are or not. It is up to google to decide if you are a link spammer or not.
I would refer you to the section on Link Spam here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

or here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Then take a look at your site in Yahoo site explorer... what do you see?

 

[aksana]

2. I said you are a link spammer. But I also said that it is not up to me to decide if you are or not. It is up to google to decide if you are a link spammer or not.
I would refer you to the section on Link Spam here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

or here

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Ok, today I've read

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

written by Gary, a SEO expert. So, from his article I see that it's allowed to use subdomains to geo target. So why are my subdomains spam? Please, explain me this thing, I don't understand why you think that I'm a link spammer.

Ok, I have another question. We all know casinocity.com. It's one of my favorite gambling portals, and it's one of the oldest and respected gambling portals. Look at its index

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

- more than 94,000 pages, and a lot of subdomains, are they also link spammers? Of course, no. So, why am I a link spammer? I just want to have geo-targeted subdomains.

Then take a look at your site in Yahoo site explorer... what do you see?

Of course, I see my pages, but what is strange there?
Why do you never explain your thoughts?

You said that I used a cloaking script that to hide my source code, but you didn't explain me why you thought so. Only Dom told me that she couldn't see my source code by right clicking in IE, BUT She could see my source code by using the menu in IE. So where is your cloaking script? You even didn't apologize for that.

So, please, explain why you think that my subdomains are spam?

 

[Alexandre]

Aksana has been a very naughty girl and she was caught with here nose in the pot of jam.
She admited it and she is now giving credit to CasinoMeister for the rogue casinos list.
Maybe it's not enough for Bryan and he would like her to remove the list.
But I don't understand all the "russian link spammer cloaker" thing.
I didn't want to jump earlier in this thread because it involves checking datas but now I've spent about 20mn doing it I don't see a footprint of spam in the source or backlinks of her website.
No problemo for me concerning subdomains and languages it's the way it has to be done and it's the way I do it (slightly different, my www. doesn't host the primary language, it redirects to the proper one, it's just a hub page).
All the links which appear in the homepage are visible by the user from the right navigation (like ABC Casino Bonus Guide and Casino Payments Methods Guide).
That's not cloaking and I don't see anything else which could be interpreted as cloaking.
Concerning links, her website has less than 1.200...not big numbers for a link spammer and after checking some of hem I couldn't find anything I wouldn't do myself (I have some corpses around me but who doesn't in terms of SEO when you know that you can't control who links to you).
Finally I don't see any clear accusation against Aksana, just questioning but maybe I've missed something ?

 

[lots0]

...Concerning links, her website has less than 1.200...not big numbers for a link spammer and after checking some of hem I couldn't find anything I wouldn't do myself (I have some corpses around me but who doesn't in terms of SEO when you know that you can't control who links to you).
Finally I don't see any clear accusation against Aksana, just questioning but maybe I've missed something ?

Don't know where you get your 1200 figure... according to yahoo site explorer her site changes on a daily basis from some 15,000 pages to around 10,000 pages depending on how her 'cloaking' script has been configured.

As of this writing the site is showing 15,209 pages.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Since all the attention to this site, it appears that the cloaking script was removed yesterday and replaced by a right click denial meta tag.

I will say this... whoever is doing her coding is perdy good.

 

[lots0]

Done

I just wanted to let everyone know I'm done with this.

I have a mountain of circumstantial evidence that points toward her site. but the only REAL hard proof that I could find and present to the community was the copying of CM's list.

The community has been now been informed and the search engines have been informed.

Everyone can now make their own decisions about this site.

If you don't believe me fine by me... If you do, it is also fine by me. The only horse I got in this race is still back in the stable.

FYI - The main reason spammers/scammers can exist so well in todays world is because of the difficulty of PROVING the hacking/spamming. Even big powerful governments have a very hard time proving spamming/hacking, even with all their resources. And the bad guys know this very very well.

 

[Alexandre]

I was talking about 1.200 inbound links not indexed pages.
You'll find them

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.
Concerning the difference of pages showed by Google or Yahoo from a day to another it has nothing to do with cloaking, just datacenter round ups or updates.
As I've said before, maybe I've missed something.
Could you explain clearly why do you suspect this site to use cloaking and which kind of method it is/was using ?
I've checked the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and I didn't find anything suspicious or different of what I can see now.

 

[dominique]

I have seen Aksana grow that site bit by bit for years. That is not the modus operandi of a spammer, blackhat sites pop up out of nowhere as a rule.

If you look at gamesandcasino at yahoo site advisor, it is very similair to Aksana's site, IMO it's just the result of many years in existance.

The blocking of right-click in viewing source used to be very popular - many of the people copying content and using it on their own site are newbies and they usually right click. It cuts down on the problem somewhat. With the browsers evolving over the years, it's not so effective anymore and it's not used much now, the serious offenders certainly know how to get around it.

The subdomains are also something I haven't used, but it is recommended for foreign language pages by SEO folk. It does initially raise an eyebrow because lots of blackhat sites DO use subdomains and lots of them. But it is perfectly legitimate to use them, and it is almost necessary to do so with foreign language sections.

The original complaint, copying Bryan's rogue list, has been fixed and maybe Bryan will chime in on Monday and let her know if it's ok now.

 

[aksana]

Lots0, I again repeat I don't use any cloaking scripts. And I didn't remove any cloaking scripts because I have never used them.

On all my subdomains I use my own CMS, and Wordpress integrated to my CMS. I submit all content MANUALLY! I would give you access to my CMS and to my Wordpress admin panels that to confirm I don't use any cloaking scripts, but I don't trust you. But I may give Dom access, and she will see the structure of my site. Tell me, Lots0, what must I do that you would believe me.

My site has been having such structure since September, 2007 as I remember, and nobody told me that my subdomains were spam. I'm constantly working on my site by adding new features, improving old features and etc.

You always may look at my site in Archive.org and you will see how I has been developing my site for all these years.

Honestly, I'm tired of your accusations without any real proofes.

 

[lots0]

I've checked the

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

and I didn't find anything suspicious or different of what I can see now.

With an server side cloaking script you would not be able to see anything by going to the cache or the waybackmachine.

If it were that easy to catch these guys... we wouldn't have any problems with spammers/hackers.

I really am done with this.

I suggest you direct your technical questions on cloaking to someone you trust that really knows programming... not some idiot SEO, that only knows how to create search engine spam.

 

[aksana]

Since all the attention to this site, it appears that the cloaking script was removed yesterday and replaced by a right click denial meta tag.

If you so smart why didn't check my source code in different browsers, or even why didn't try to view my source code using the Menu in IE? if "right click" does not work than I use cloaking scripts, what rubbish!

And I found that thread where webmasters discussed this feature

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

It was suggested by SlotPlayer

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

And it seemed very interesting for me because I even didn't know about such feature. You may see that I even thanked SlotPlayer for this post, and from that time I started using these meta tags. That's all, no cloaking scripts!

 

[spearmaster]

Ding!

This thread is going nowhere. If there is nothing constructive moving forward, the thread will be closed.

 

[Alexandre]

I'm a a professional SEO and cloaking was my hobby in my early days.
Server side cloaking is accessible from Google cache because it's a copy of what Google sees.
That's why cloakers use the no cache option to avoid people (but not Google) spotting them by comparing the source code and te copy cached by Google.
Spammers are very easy to spot on the Internet because here everything is recorded, whatever you do leaves a footprint, you can't hide anything because of the same nature of Internet.
Aksana has clearly done a bad thing copying the Meister's list without giving credit, but we can't prosecute her for other things without proofs and with improper investigation.
That is my main message.
Just wanted to add that I don't know Aksana, never seen or heard of her before.

 

[lots0]

I'm a a professional SEO and cloaking was my hobby in my early days.
Server side cloaking is accessible from Google cache because it's a copy of what Google sees.
That's why cloakers use the no cache option to avoid people (but not Google) spotting them by comparing the source code and te copy cached by Google.
Spammers are very easy to spot on the Internet because here everything is recorded, whatever you do leaves a footprint, you can't hide anything because of the same nature of Internet.
Aksana has clearly done a bad thing copying the Meister's list without giving credit, but we can't prosecute her for other things without proofs and with improper investigation.
That is my main message.
Just wanted to add that I don't know Aksana, never seen or heard of her before.

If spammers are so easy to catch why are there so many of them?

I was a 'Professional SEO' before anyone knew what an SEO was. I no longer call myself an SEO because of all the pretenders that claim that title now.

No one is talking about prosecution.

The community needed to be informed and so did the search engines. They have been.

The community will make it's decision as will the search engines.

The search engines are the final judge of what is link spam and what is not... they will decide.

Spear, I though you were going to close this thread?

 

[spearmaster]

Spear, I though you were going to close this thread?

I was hoping someone was going to introduce something constructive. As this is clearly not going to be the case, this thread is now closed.