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Rochester Casino refuses to pay my winnings

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by mothergoosebump, Jun 7, 2005.

    Jun 7, 2005
  1. mothergoosebump

    mothergoosebump Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Semi-retired
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Four months ago, on February 7, I deposited at Rochester Casino (You must register/login in order to see the link.) and won a substantial amount (3000$), but since then the casino has been refusing to pay me.

    What happened is this : on that day I deposited 500$, received a 1250$ bonus (non cashable, with 30 times deposit + bonus to wager), hit the blackjack tables and brought my balance to 4750$ in over 52500$ of wagering.

    Before cashing out, I contacted Live Chat and Moe, one the CSRs, explicitly confirmed to me that I had fulfilled the wagering requirement for the bonus and he even congratulated me (I still have a copy of that chat session).

    Two days later, the casino denied my cashout. They said blackjack did not count towards the wagering requirement, even though when I played there was no such rule. They added the rule restricting blackjack AFTER I played and cashed out.I checked the rules before playing and there was no rules restricting blackjack. There is no way I would have missed it since, once the rules appeared, it was in plain view at the top of the Rules & Reg. page. Also, I have been in contact with another player who was explicitly told that blackjack counted and he was told that AFTER the time of my cashout. I contacted Janet Evans from customer care and she maintained that the blackjack rule was not modified.

    At that point, I made some efforts in getting the issue resolved but I wasn't successful.

    On March 20, I lost patience with the whole thing and, in the hope of ending the problem, I logged into my casino account and hit the baccarat table. Bacarrat is one of the games which counts now (and counted at the time of my original deposit) towards the rollover for my bonus.

    I started my wagering all over again and wagered over 52500$ of mostly 50-200$ hands of baccarat. At the end of this session, I had won and additional 47$ which took my balance to 4797$. I thought that my troubles were over, but apparently I was wrong.

    Right after wagering, I asked Linda from Live chat to confirm my rollover for the day. She said 46,915$. At this point I logged back into my casino account, opened my play history and proceeded to manually count every single bet I had made that day. The total was near 53k, which closely matched my own data, but was 6k over the rollover they told me.

    Linda was supposed to inquire the discrepancy and come back at me shortly, but she did not. Later on I chatted with Pablo who promised someone would look into it but it would take 24 hours. The next day I heard nothing from the casino, so I opened a chat and spoke with Duke. Duke said he would get my real rollover total in a few minutes. After a while he came back to the chat and told me all my baccarat play was worthless, because of my blackjack playing back in February! This makes no sense at all since blackjack was never EXCLUDED. The rules, even the present rules, merely mention that blackjack does not count towards rollover. Nothing more. The rule goes like this : "The games Roulette, Casino War, and Blackjack (any variation) do not count on rollover requirements." This is the rule that appears on the casino's website today. It has not been changed since appearing there a couple of days after my original playing session in February.

    I emailed the manager Rob Marshall about the outrageousness of this but he did not reply.

    A few days later I emailed support with a fresh request for my total baccarat rollover. The reply came from Janet Evans from the accounting dept. She failed to give my baccarat rollover, but she wanted me to forfeit my winnings on the basis of my blackjack playing. The english in her email was so bad that it was barely readable, but that's what I understood of it.

    I showed some good will by wagering another 53k on baccarat on top of the disputed blackjack play. I accepted to dismiss all my blackjack play in order to solve a dispute and in response they bring forward an artificial, undefendable reason to deny my winnings. I think this is extremely dishonest of them.
     
  2. Jun 7, 2005
  3. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Did you happen to take a screenshot of the site T & C at the time, where blackjack was not excluded? I doubt it would help much since this is clearly a stiff joint, but if you have no proof, you're sunk. The word of a CSR isn't sufficient.

    Welcome to the lovely world of online casinos.

    Hopefully Bryan can help, but I can't see there being too much backup with a place like this.

    EDIT: From closer reading, I see you didn't take a screenshot. I see no way you will get paid on this one, very sorry indeed. The casino will say the blackjack clause was always there.

    EDIT AGAIN: However, as you say, blackjack play is not prohibited, merely not included in the rollover. They don't say "any play on blackjack will result in all winnings being voided". As per their own rules, you are entitled to your money.

    I've taken a dated screenshot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2005
  4. Jun 7, 2005
  5. Thatchatch

    Thatchatch Dormant account

    Location:
    Toronto ON Canada
    Correct.

    I called Rochester and they confirmed with me that I could play Blackjack to my heart's content, although it doen't count towards requrements, as long as did meet the wagering requirements in allowed games.

    Regards,

    Thatch
     
  6. Jun 7, 2005
  7. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Yet another Costa Rican victim. We've asked the management at this place for an explanation in the hope that this will focus their attention more fairly.
    Anyone know what software these people are using?
     
  8. Jun 7, 2005
  9. uungy

    uungy Dormant account PABnononaccred PABnoaccred PABaccred

    I definatly recall seeing that Blackjack is allowed in the terms and conditions! I havent checked it up recently but, if you say now its disallowed, it must ave been updated recently!

    I opened an account but havent played there.
     
  10. Jun 7, 2005
  11. bjking

    bjking Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    Quote from their T&C
    Is there anything else that I should know?

    At ROCHESTER CASINO, Our goal is to make your entire GAMBLING experience the best one ever. As such, we promise that collecting your winnings will be as easy as sending funds.
    ROCHESTER CASINO has based its reputation on quality service and reliable payment. We pride ourselves in professional customer care, which we constantly improve.

    :lolup: Liar Liar pants on fire. Sorry I know it's childish but so is what they are doing.

    I had the same thing with Mapau, but i did have a screen shot. They paid me after months of arguing.

    Jetset, the software is some sort of no-download rubbish maintained by A.S.T Gaming Solutions.

    Good luck getting your money.
     
  12. Jun 7, 2005
  13. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Thanks - I can't recall the detail but I think these AST Gaming guys, or their predecessors were in rogueland a couple years back.
     
  14. Jun 7, 2005
  15. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I was on this a couple a months ago when mothergoosebump submitted a PAB. Unfortunately, she kept hitting me up when I was heading out the door going somewhere :D

    This is the response from the casino from May:

    This is a long story but I'll try to make it short. Rochester Casino is fairly new, seven months old.

    The player signed up on Feb 07, 2005. She made a $500 deposit the same day and got up to $4750. The player is claiming that we changed the our gaming rules and regulations after she won. However immediately after the issue with another member that comitted fraud, we decided to make the changes. In our documentation the changes to the rules and regulations page was done on Jan the 29th of 2005. And on that same day the changes done excluded black jack , casino war, roulette, and baccarat from the rollover allowed games.

    The Accounting Department tried to locate the player via phone and e-mail to tell her that she has her account open,and with the total amount of money and if she covers the rollover with the permited games she will be paid instantly. But she didn't reply...

    Rob Marshall
    General Manager
    Rochester Casino


    I've responded back with a copy of her chat session that indicates that support stated she had met the wagering requirements. On another note, the management has mentioned that they removed the BJ rollover allowability because of some bonus "abuser", but if she wasn't involved with this guy, then she shouldn't be punished for it. Let's remove the horse-blinds, folks. I don't see what the big deal is. She should be paid.
     
  16. Jun 7, 2005
  17. mothergoosebump

    mothergoosebump Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Semi-retired
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Bryan, I am very glad to see you involved again! I'm sorry if I sounded impatient in my last emails, but, as you mentioned, communication wasn't working too well between us for a while... Let me address the message that Rochester sent you :

    Until very recently, baccarat was never listed among the games that don't count towards wagering requirements. I have a dated screenshot from March 21 (I played bacarrat on March 20) on which bacarrat is NOT listed as a game that doesn't count towards wagering requirements.

    I have accepted to dismiss my blackjack play because I had no proof that blackjack was allowed when I played, but as far as baccarat is concerned, this time I do have a proof. The fact they are now implying that baccarat has been excluded since January 29 shows very well how dishonest these people are.

    They say they tried to "locate" me as if to imply that I was hard to reach, which is not true at all. Rochester never personnally emailed me any offer to restart the wagering on allowed games. They called me once on the phone when I wasn't there and I emailed them on the next day. I didn't want to speak on the phone because I find it hard to stay cool and collected when I am angry as I was and also because I wanted written traces of any communications with them.

    If they really invited me to restart the WR on allowed games, then how do they explain that they are still refusing to pay me even after I wagered all over again on baccarat at a time when bacarrat umambiguously counted towards rollover?

    The truth is that the only "offer" I ever got from them was an email invitation to forfeit my winnings before either getting my deposit back, or restarting the whole wagering with original deposit and bonus. I did not reply to that "offer".
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2005
  18. Jun 7, 2005
  19. Thatchatch

    Thatchatch Dormant account

    Location:
    Toronto ON Canada
    Rochester screenshot.

    From Rochestercasino today, decribing games that don't fulfill wagering requirements. Specifically, games 'that don't fulfill' are all Roulettes, all Blackjacks and War. Baccarat is not one of them.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Regards,

    Thatch
     
  20. Jun 7, 2005
  21. paul02085

    paul02085 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Fishing :)
    Location:
    USA
    These people are rogues. They will probably go bust if they pay a $5k winner. Geezus.
     
  22. Jun 9, 2005
  23. mothergoosebump

    mothergoosebump Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Semi-retired
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Here's a funny (maybe not so funny when you think of it :() thing about Rochester :

    They are the only casino that I know or have heard of that has a seperate email or chatline (chatline in this case) specifically attributed to "disputes". It has appeared recently. Just open a chat and you will see.

    This is something else than Montana Overseas, for example, who manages disputes for a huge number of indepently owned casinos. This is a dispute line for a single, obviously small, casino.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2005
  24. Jun 10, 2005
  25. mothergoosebump

    mothergoosebump Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Semi-retired
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Just in case anyone would be tempted to take pity on them, I'd like to point out that Rochester Casino offers slots games at the 5$ coin level with 3000 coins payout (and that's just one machine that I checked, there might be bigger jackpots). They also offer multi-line 5$ coin videopoker.

    And right now their latest explanation for not paying me is that I won too much. What will they do when someones hits a 15k slots jackpots? or a pat royal at their 5$ multi-line machine?


    By the way, they have locked my account today. :(
     
  26. Jun 10, 2005
  27. mary

    mary Dormant account

    Heck, they won't let you take your money out if you don't play at all:

    Withdrawing Funds

    All initial deposits and winnings must remain in the account for one week before you can cash it out.

    All Requests are processed within 12 hours. Customers must have some kind of activity in the account in the 2 weeks prior to the withdrawal request in order to apply for the redemption
     
  28. Jun 10, 2005
  29. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    And they still have not responded to requests for an explanation on this crooked conduct. It all adds up to a very bad picture of questionable integrity and low money reserves as far as I am concerned, and this outfit should clearly be given a very wide berth.
     
  30. Jun 10, 2005
  31. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Vortran has issued a warning about them on yesterday's webcast:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/radio_show.html

    I was a little reluctant on letting him do so wanting to give the management a bit more tiime to respond, but I thought "oh, what the hell" and let the robot have at it :D

    Management has hunkered down into a silent mode., so full-blown roguedom is on the horizon. Sorry Mothergoosebumps, but it doesn't look too good.

    Of course, they might be re-examining this situation and come straight. Only time will tell.
     
  32. Jun 12, 2005
  33. mothergoosebump

    mothergoosebump Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Semi-retired
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    They have a sportsbook, too :

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2005
  34. Jun 14, 2005
  35. bonustreak

    bonustreak Senior Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    Home Office
    They will not pay, I have 2 players that were owed money, thousands and I was ignored and then blocked all around from contacting them.
     
  36. Jun 14, 2005
  37. mothergoosebump

    mothergoosebump Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Semi-retired
    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    vixen, I am one of those two players who got ripped off by Rochester after signing up though your board (The Winning Streak). Have you forgotten already?

    If you hadn't showered the casino manager with personal insults as soon as I notified you that they were giving me trouble, I would have had greater chances of getting paid.

    Also, if you hadn't explicitly VOUCHED for this casino like you did, implying that the casino's manager was a personal friend (which we later learned wasn't true at all), I wouldn't even have played there to begin with.

    In part, it's irresponsible forum and portal admninistrators like you that make it possible for shady operations like Rochester to be and stay in business.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2005
  38. Jun 15, 2005
  39. sancho

    sancho Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Musician
    mothergoosebumps, I almost signed up at Rochester around last Feb. but then I saw your complaint at the Winning Streak and I didn't deposit.

    Unfotunately, as you have learned the hard way, those ezboard forums will advertise just about anybody.

    I hope you get paid, although it doesn't look good.
     

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