Robbed by robbers with a licens

[trancemonkey]

Well I cant play those providers, so most slots for me may not be the same for you.

Even thunderkick is predetermined. Even in their base game. There has been many people who notice in the battles as a player hits spin, the balance increases before the reels spin.

Well the base game one is obvious...
As soon as you press the start button the server sends a response telling the UI (the game you see) what to display. At that point (before you've seen it) the server knows the outcome. Now what should happen is that the wallet shouldn't be updated until the spin is complete (What we call the SpinComplete signal. This should tell the server that you've seen the spin and the wallet can be updated.

Of course not every provider has the same logic flow in their code so some might do it differently hence the issue you see. It's shoddy coding... but quite why you would have two tabs open just to see this and spoil the fun, I dunno.

 

[lockinlove]

But you didn't state why providers would want a lower RTP in your post... just about negotiations and how casinos want performing games.

Don't get me wrong... if casinos could have performing games at 80%, they would... luckily there is enough competition that means we don't

During contract negotiations with a slot provider I was told they look at 2 things. The traffic that slot provider has among players and the returns it brings to the casino. So the answer to the rtp is, the lower it is, the more the casino makes. Which in turn, gives the slot provider a better contract come discussions.

Why did thunderkick and playngo take down their slots to lower the rtp on a lot of their established games?

 

[trancemonkey]

But i think the betsiza had something to do with the payout when u got the bonus. I hade the bonus on Gozos quest on 50e spin i think at least 20 times.. Only 1 time i had a "good" win and that was 6300euros on 20 frefalls. the rest of them have been around 3000euros. But when i played in 10euros i had 800xbet 3 times. All this was 2014-2016. Im not saying they are rigged but i can offer my lefthand wich i use when i press spinnbuton thats something has changed. the time between bonusfetaure is so much longer and the small winns x30 has become a megabigwin!! So what i wonder when i get the bonus let say 10frefalls on gonzo! is not every spin random? on the bonus game. does the slot allready know how nuch it will pay after the 10frefalls. I dont understand in the basegame evry spin is random
but not in the bonusgame

Start using SlotTracker (slottracker.com) and you'll start to see that most of your fears aren't true. As for your other points... each fall would be random yes. I can't make you believe me, and you have to make your own mind up, but the outcome of each spin will be randomly determined.

 

[Gonzo]

So maye be if i play like this 1000 spins 0.20bet 100spins 20eu bet i have a bigger chance to win haha

 

[trancemonkey]

During contract negotiations with a slot provider I was told they look at 2 things. The traffic that slot provider has among players and the returns it brings to the casino. So the answer to the rtp is, the lower it is, the more the casino makes. Which in turn, gives the slot provider a better contract come discussions.

Why did thunderkick and playngo take down their slots to lower the rtp on a lot of their established games?

Yes you're correct... As I said, casinos would love a lower RTP and the providers would make more money too...

However the trend towards high variance games means lower RTPs make this type of game much more difficult.

Some casinos will always want the lower RTP of any a provider offers... most providers probably do more than one RTP configuration.

But, given the sheer volume of choice and the fact that in the UK players can see the RTP, it's unlikely to drop much unless all casinos do it at the same time...

 

[Jono777]

@trancemonkey

Can I ask this please...

Scenario. A slot you are playing is throwing in the bonus rounds quite regularly (say every 50-60 spins)

Trouble is a player is getting only 10-30 x as a result of all of these features / bonuses.

Theoretically (a factor which will be impossible to determine) - Could this player decide not to play the next time he hits the FS feature and return a couple of days later and play out this bonus round which could 'break the cycle' of these 10-30x returns (Hate this term but when the slot seems so called 'hot')

A combination of posts I've read together with several experiences of the part in blue have triggered this query, no concerns or accusations of foul play on this one

 

[lockinlove]

Well the base game one is obvious...
As soon as you press the start button the server sends a response telling the UI (the game you see) what to display. At that point (before you've seen it) the server knows the outcome. Now what should happen is that the wallet shouldn't be updated until the spin is complete (What we call the SpinComplete signal. This should tell the server that you've seen the spin and the wallet can be updated.

Of course not every provider has the same logic flow in their code so some might do it differently hence the issue you see. It's shoddy coding... but quite why you would have two tabs open just to see this and spoil the fun, I dunno.

Well shoddy coding or whatever, it still means its predetermined bonus rounds. So my question is this. Why are some slot providers making such horseshit bonus rounds on games where the base game is high variance too. Do they think its funny to make someone spin 2500 times, give a bonus and it pay 2x all the meanwhile the basegame is set at 40% rtp.

This is the reason for so many complaints lately. High volatile games being pumped out with shit predetermined bonus rounds. Making the player feel illegally penetrated.

 

[goatwack]

I've read this thread three times now, but one thing I still don't quite get.

So.....are slots rigged then?

 

[incrediblestuff]

I've read this thread three times now, but one thing I still don't quite get.

So.....are slots rigged then?

Lol, i always call them pseudo-random, which i.m.o. is the best description ever...period

 

[brianmon]

On DoA my stats a few weeks ago were:

spins - 20,424
Number of wins: 6,103
RTP: 29.88%


I have completed more spins since then, I think it was almost 28,000 with an RTP of 26%.

The rest of my stats were not great which is why I gave up depositing but I will use slot tracker when I return.

Thanks

To calculate your RTP, you'd need to know the total amount you've wagered in £££, not the number of spins.
Although, if you always play at the same stake, then that amount would be spins x stake

you'd also need to know the amount you'd won in £££. Not the number of wins


Then you just divide one by the other and multiply by 100

 

[trancemonkey]

Lol, i always call them pseudo-random, which i.m.o. is the best description ever...period

As i've said many times, if we ever have a CM meeting, i'd happily explain in more detail...

 

[trancemonkey]

To calculate your RTP, you'd need to know the total amount you've wagered in £££, not the number of spins.
Although, if you always play at the same stake, then that amount would be spins x stake

you'd also need to know the amount you'd won in £££. Not the number of wins


Then you just divide one by the other and multiply by 100

Correct, all greylady has done is got the win frequency - which on that game is, oddly, just better than 1 in 4 (around 29%)....

 

[incrediblestuff]

As i've said many times, if we ever have a CM meeting, i'd happily explain in more detail...

I don't need much explaining personally, but i'd love to have a pint or whiskey with you mate! I'll definitely be attending the AAC this year, so ...
Let me know if you do too!

 

[slot_zombie]

I have always hesitated to join the foil hat theories and I still won't. But I can't dismiss my own bank statements over the last 3 years, and the obvious shortening of play times.

I've changed nothing. I'm a low roller, £100 session deposits and 40p-60p stakes. Couple of years ago I could pretty much bank on an evening's worth of entertainment for my money. Now? Mostly straight down to bust with an average of £50 lost just to see the first bonus, that inevitably coughs single figures. It's getting to the point where the deposit is made at 6pm and it's not unusual to be back in the lounge watching television by 7, having bust out straight away without even one bonus.

On average I was cashing out of 1 in 3 sessions with a fairly decent profit and even one or two monster withdrawals in 2015-early 2016.. Still down overall, of course. But now just getting slightly ahead feels like a Herculean task.

2 years ago I was uploading at least one big win video every couple of weeks to YouTube. Now? Maybe 1 every couple of months! Yet my play frequency hasn't changed. That upload history also tells the story.

So yes.. maybe it really is a horribly bad run of luck. Whatever the reason for the dramatic drop, I'm not standing for it any longer and I can be added to the "quit" club as of today because there simply isn't much entertainment to be had these days. 2 PS4 games that will last for ages, or 60 minutes on the slots watching another balance turn to dogshit is pretty much a no brainer.

Stay safe all...

 

[greylady]

To calculate your RTP, you'd need to know the total amount you've wagered in £££, not the number of spins.
Although, if you always play at the same stake, then that amount would be spins x stake

you'd also need to know the amount you'd won in £££. Not the number of wins


Then you just divide one by the other and multiply by 100

Ok done that and my RTP is actually worse, 25.33%

No more slotting for me!

 

[interlog]

Ok done that and my RTP is actually worse, 25.33%

No more slotting for me!

That is almost impossible on Dead or Alive!!! Are you sure you have been given the correct information

 

[brianmon]

Now I'm using Slot tracker to monitor each session carefully, I've found that recently, that EVERY session starts the same way -

Very low RTP for the first 100+ spins (usually around 30-40%)
After 200 spins RTP has crept up to just over 50%

Obviously by this time there's a big chunk of my balance missing.

Then for the next 200-400 spins my balance either maintains its level (+/- 20x stake), building the RTP up to a (more reasonable) level of 70-80%, before busting out. But without getting anywhere near my starting balance.

Or I get a few decent wins, taking me above my starting balance.


Whatever happens, I'm finding I need a lot of spins, before it goes one way or the other

It's like the games are following some predetermined RTP curve.

I was going to download the data from Slot tracker, for some session and use Excel to plot a graph of RTP against balance. But unfortunately the export function in Slot tracker, doesn't appear to be working properly, or I'm doing something wrong

 

[trancemonkey]

Ok done that and my RTP is actually worse, 25.33%

No more slotting for me!

That's impossible... there's no way that's correct. How are you working out that value? I.e what figures are you using?

 

[trancemonkey]

I have always hesitated to join the foil hat theories and I still won't. But I can't dismiss my own bank statements over the last 3 years, and the obvious shortening of play times.

I've changed nothing. I'm a low roller, £100 session deposits and 40p-60p stakes. Couple of years ago I could pretty much bank on an evening's worth of entertainment for my money. Now? Mostly straight down to bust with an average of £50 lost just to see the first bonus, that inevitably coughs single figures. It's getting to the point where the deposit is made at 6pm and it's not unusual to be back in the lounge watching television by 7, having bust out straight away without even one bonus.

On average I was cashing out of 1 in 3 sessions with a fairly decent profit and even one or two monster withdrawals in 2015-early 2016.. Still down overall, of course. But now just getting slightly ahead feels like a Herculean task.

2 years ago I was uploading at least one big win video every couple of weeks to YouTube. Now? Maybe 1 every couple of months! Yet my play frequency hasn't changed. That upload history also tells the story.

So yes.. maybe it really is a horribly bad run of luck. Whatever the reason for the dramatic drop, I'm not standing for it any longer and I can be added to the "quit" club as of today because there simply isn't much entertainment to be had these days. 2 PS4 games that will last for ages, or 60 minutes on the slots watching another balance turn to dogshit is pretty much a no brainer.

Stay safe all...

Are you playing EXACTLY the same games?

 

[trancemonkey]

Now I'm using Slot tracker to monitor each session carefully, I've found that recently, that EVERY session starts the same way -

Very low RTP for the first 100+ spins (usually around 30-40%)
After 200 spins RTP has crept up to just over 50%

Obviously by this time there's a big chunk of my balance missing.

Then for the next 200-400 spins my balance either maintains its level (+/- 20x stake), building the RTP up to a (more reasonable) level of 70-80%, before busting out. But without getting anywhere near my starting balance.

Or I get a few decent wins, taking me above my starting balance.


Whatever happens, I'm finding I need a lot of spins, before it goes one way or the other

It's like the games are following some predetermined RTP curve.

I was going to download the data from Slot tracker, for some session and use Excel to plot a graph of RTP against balance. But unfortunately the export function in Slot tracker, doesn't appear to be working properly, or I'm doing something wrong

What game? Also Tropicana50 may be able to help... PM him

 

[Steviedoo]

Now I'm using Slot tracker to monitor each session carefully, I've found that recently, that EVERY session starts the same way -

Very low RTP for the first 100+ spins (usually around 30-40%)
After 200 spins RTP has crept up to just over 50%

Obviously by this time there's a big chunk of my balance missing.

Then for the next 200-400 spins my balance either maintains its level (+/- 20x stake), building the RTP up to a (more reasonable) level of 70-80%, before busting out. But without getting anywhere near my starting balance.

Or I get a few decent wins, taking me above my starting balance.


Whatever happens, I'm finding I need a lot of spins, before it goes one way or the other

It's like the games are following some predetermined RTP curve.

I was going to download the data from Slot tracker, for some session and use Excel to plot a graph of RTP against balance. But unfortunately the export function in Slot tracker, doesn't appear to be working properly, or I'm doing something wrong

Hey I noticed this too....instinctively I feel like the slot machine is warming up....so I've started betting low for the first 100 or so spins and then raising....and the fear of missing a big hit on a low bet is non existent as of the last couple of months....and you are right it feels like after having lost most of my balance the next spins just keep me at the same level....and the busted....and I play much different slots than you..

 

[brianmon]

What game? Also Tropicana50 may be able to help... PM him

I've mostly been playing IR, DOA,TSII and bonanza. Overall the RTP is quite respectable, as you can see below, considering I've only got a week's worth of data.

It's just the way every session starts exactly the same way, low RTP and no features until after about 200 spins, then things often balance out a bit.
It's like the average feature frequency, has become the absolute minimum number of spins to hit a feature, especially TSII and Bonanza.

If anyone else is getting sessions like this, without a sufficient starting balance, they're going to be busting out, before things have a chance to improve, and the game redeems it's self

 

[nojoke]

Seems that every screen shot of "Slot Tracker" shows most games in the "Red" and any that show "Green" are only just above the stated RTP of the game. Everything else is below the stated RTP.

The community stats for each game are "Red" mostly. Well down on the stated RTP. I get the impression that very few games actually have a decent return and therefore the gameplay on these slots is naturaly going to be awful.

Also like many have said, I find it damn near impossible to get even a few £'s in front of my starting balance, It does feel like you have to feed the game before it compensates the player.

Trickery i tell thee, Its trickery.

 

[Playford7]

Now now, don't brush us all with the same comb

There's a hand full of posters that are quite active, and often feel the same way about these subjects, who tend to seemingly set the tone in some threads: but there' s (or so i believe) a much greater part of the community, that feels completely different!

That said, complaining about non paying games and losses has always been, and i figure will also always be part of the game...
Interpreting information wrongly, and then adopting it into said theories, is also a huge part of forum life...luckily we have you and other great contributors with insider knowledge, and as such i hope you will keep providing info (and correcting some) but don't feel obliged to jump in on every wrong comment in too many threads, or you'll get worked up, or just too damn busy, which may result in you 'giving up the ghost'

That would be a shame

Well shoddy coding or whatever, it still means its predetermined bonus rounds. So my question is this. Why are some slot providers making such horseshit bonus rounds on games where the base game is high variance too. Do they think its funny to make someone spin 2500 times, give a bonus and it pay 2x all the meanwhile the basegame is set at 40% rtp.

This is the reason for so many complaints lately. High volatile games being pumped out with shit predetermined bonus rounds. Making the player feel illegally penetrated.

I've read this thread three times now, but one thing I still don't quite get.

So.....are slots rigged then?

Poor old trancemonkey must answer this question at least once daily.
He should just be like most live chat ops and have cut and paste answers at the ready.

 

[greylady]

That is almost impossible on Dead or Alive!!! Are you sure you have been given the correct information

Hard as it is to believe, I know how badly I was doing on this game on Videoslots, 800 spins = no feature, this was probably the worst but numerous times I came close to that figure without a feature and the dead spins wow, which prompted me to check with Videoslots customer service but I will go back and check again with them.