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RNG ?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by deepsky2, Mar 13, 2011.

    Mar 13, 2011
  1. deepsky2

    deepsky2 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    maintenance manager
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    How does rng really work? I know its random number generator but if casinos can set a payout percentage is it really rng. Say a casino has 96 percent pay out on slots and say by mid month they paid out 90 percent does that mean the rng is set to pay out only 6 percent for the rest of the month and if its really random why is it several spins in a row are wins and at times you can spin 1000 times and dont even get a bonus I have email a few online casino to explain this to me but no response but if your having problems making a deposit there is always help available to take your money.:eek:
     
  2. Mar 13, 2011
  3. cerdikola

    cerdikola Low Roller

    Occupation:
    ñ
    Location:
    Spain
    I'm not a maths pro, but I think I can answer you..

    RNG is completely random. Casinos can't manipulate it (then it wouldn't be random :D).

    The payout rate that casinos publish in their sites are just statistics of past periods of time. Casinos can't predict the exact payout that a game (excluding fixed odds games like lottery, scratch cards, etc..) will have; they just can change the prizes or game rules in order to increase or decrease casino advantage or game variance.

    I suggest you to visit the You must register/login in order to see the link. if you want to learn more about maths and casino games. ;)
     
  4. Mar 13, 2011
  5. deepsky2

    deepsky2 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    maintenance manager
    Location:
    toronto ontario canada
    thank you

    Ill check out the site

    Thanks
     
  6. Mar 13, 2011
  7. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    I understand how you are thinking.

    But the RTP% is based on the mathematics of the game. Imagine Blackjack in a land based casino. The game itself gives the casino a mathematic advantage. The casino does not "control" the RTP% in blackjack from month to month. It`s not possible. This will also apply for slot machines.

    You have asked CS about RNG. Sadly enough, many CS representatives probably does not even know what RNG stands for.
     
  8. Mar 13, 2011
  9. cerdikola

    cerdikola Low Roller

    Occupation:
    ñ
    Location:
    Spain
    +1

    Some of them have given evidence in this forum :lolup:

    But remember most of them are customer support people and not engineers!
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Mar 13, 2011
  11. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
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    Agree...they are not engineers :D

    Anyway, OP might want to ask KasinoKing about this issue. He knows a lot about RTP / RNG
     
  12. Mar 14, 2011
  13. jstrike

    jstrike Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Programmer & Designer
    Location:
    Europe
    It's all in the game, like Rainmaker said. The house has an advantage without needing to screw with the RNG. It's all about the payback odds. No RNG should ever be programmed. It doesn't know what it's making random numbers for. It just picks a random series of numbers.

    Take a really simple example and you'll see how it works. Let's say there's an online wheel of fortune with 10 possible spots it can land on. None of those spots pay anything except for one, and that spot pays 9:1. There's no house edge in this game because every time you spin the wheel you lose $1, and one out of ten times you get your $1 back plus $9. The way casinos make money is whenever there's a situation like this, they change the spot to pay 8:1. That would give the casino an edge of 10%.

    When it comes time to spin the wheel, the wheel program just says to the RNG, give me a random number. The RNG is constantly running through thousands of numbers. It says, okay, here, and it spits out a number between let's say 1 and 16 million. Let's say that number is 245,493. The wheel program then goes 245493%10...meaning it realizes 245,493 is too high a number so it divides by the highest number it's looking for (10) and takes the remainder. The remainder is 3 in this case. So it spins the wheel the the 3rd position, and then figures out if that position is the winner.

    A casino can rig a game, but it can't really rig an RNG itself. Take that situation. The RNG doesn't know what it spit a number out for, it doesn't know how many digits the wheel is looking for, it doesn't know what each position would pay. The RNG is basically just a dumb thing that's constantly running through random numbers and spitting them out for games. If a casino wanted to rig the game I'm talking about, what they'd do is this:

    Wheel asks the RNG for a number. RNG says 3. Wheel says, okay, 3. Then the wheel runs a piece of bad code some casino guy put in there and says, oh shit, 3 is a winning number. Pick again. RNG says, 3, again, randomly. The wheel says okay, we tried once, this time we let it go through and the guy wins. It's called double dealing.

    But the casino doesn't need to rig the game either. They just need to set the odds to 8:1 on that winning spin, and they're going to make a solid 10% over time.

    Hope this kinda explains things, if you got more questions about the actual programming of these things I'd be glad to tell you as much as I know about it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Mar 14, 2011
  15. jstrike

    jstrike Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Programmer & Designer
    Location:
    Europe
    one thing about this, RM. The casinos can change weights on slots to influence RTP in most cases without notifying the players. They can do this by changing actual payouts (the right way) or just by changing the weights on certain reel items (the wrong way). Both of those things add up to expected payback, but if they changed the hidden weight of an item there would be no way to prove it without thousands of test spins.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Mar 14, 2011
  17. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
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    Thanks for pointing that out :) It was a bit clumsy written from my side.

    But anyway...I am still waiting for your casino to open :thumbsup:
     
  18. Mar 14, 2011
  19. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I could not have explained it better myself! :thumbsup:

    KK
     
  20. Mar 16, 2011
  21. Ümad

    Ümad Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Shooting Range Supervisor
    Location:
    Australia
    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    That's a pretty handy link plus it has gambling section which i think you will be interested in
     

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