RNG experience playing roulette

[randomplay]

Hi!

I searched the forums regarding "RNG" issues and as I haven't found any match I would like to open a discussion on this topic. For the first time I played online roulette at 3Dice (very friendly and helpful support by the way) and I've experienced the same bad experience that many players share on different forums.

Although no one can beat roulette on the long run (and I didn't expect to win) I want to focus on the short run. I was amazed to experience, like many other players, that after a threshold of wins I experienced a very bizarre fast sequence of bet losing. Again, I know the odds of the game and don't expect to win on the long run but my perception over how I lost doesn't match any experience I had with land casinos and "live online roulette". I know many of you will consider my "feeling" as non relevant as random numbers can't be "perceived" or "categorized" since they are random. Of course I trust 3Dice fairness of the game. However my explanation (it's only an intuition as I don't have any facts to prove it) is that RNG roulettes work as slots machines that are probably "prewired" in some way that it will force the game to strictly stick to the house edge after a certain threshold. So I don't question the randomness of the numbers that appear but that the software (via some complex algorithm) constrains in some way the game. In other forums I've read that software providers have a backoffice/admin panel that sets many parameters/constraints to the RNG processes. However I really do not know wether to give or not credit to such information as I have no idea how these software work.

In a nutshell I feel that RNG dynamics of an online roulette differ from random land/live roulette games. If online roulettes are sort of deterministic machines with some randomness within the system than it's no fun to play them. Or is my perception a gambler's fallacy one? Then howcome so many roulette players complain about RNG?

Would be great if you would like yo share your experience!

 

[ksb11]

Hi!

I searched the forums regarding "RNG" issues and as I haven't found any match I would like to open a discussion on this topic. For the first time I played online roulette at 3Dice (very friendly and helpful support by the way) and I've experienced the same bad experience that many players share on different forums.

Although no one can beat roulette on the long run (and I didn't expect to win) I want to focus on the short run. I was amazed to experience, like many other players, that after a threshold of wins I experienced a very bizarre fast sequence of bet losing. Again, I know the odds of the game and don't expect to win on the long run but my perception over how I lost doesn't match any experience I had with land casinos and "live online roulette". I know many of you will consider my "feeling" as non relevant as random numbers can't be "perceived" or "categorized" since they are random. Of course I trust 3Dice fairness of the game. However my explanation (it's only an intuition as I don't have any facts to prove it) is that RNG roulettes work as slots machines that are probably "prewired" in some way that it will force the game to strictly stick to the house edge after a certain threshold. So I don't question the randomness of the numbers that appear but that the software (via some complex algorithm) constrains in some way the game. In other forums I've read that software providers have a backoffice/admin panel that sets many parameters/constraints to the RNG processes. However I really do not know wether to give or not credit to such information as I have no idea how these software work.

In a nutshell I feel that RNG dynamics of an online roulette differ from random land/live roulette games. If online roulettes are sort of deterministic machines with some randomness within the system than it's no fun to play them. Or is my perception a gambler's fallacy one? Then howcome so many roulette players complain about RNG?

Would be great if you would like yo share your experience!

I have to admit, and I think 3Dice is great, but I have never beat a roulette wheel there! I play a lot on the wheel, make a lot of withdrawals from reputable casinos here on Casinomeister. I can't win at 3Dice, so I play where I can win.

On the positive side, 3Dice has always treated me well and I can't deny that

 

[Rick Deckard]

after a threshold of wins I experienced a very bizarre fast sequence of bet losing.

Then howcome so many roulette players complain about RNG?

Would be great if you would like yo share your experience!

From my own experiance of playing online roulette and real roulette, I find that with both you get get a nice winning streak that obviously ends at some point and the expectation is that it is going to continue on and on or kick back in anytime soon.

With that hopeful expectation I used to bet higher or keep my bets as high, when the streak hit. Though that sometimes and more often than not meant my gains were quickly evaporated and then my initial deposit started vanishing too.

What I learned from that was to lower my stakes after multiple wins and either cashout the whole lot or cashout the amount I had deposited and play on with the winnings. I would then curse my luck for not carrying on betting big if the wins kept on coming, but that isn't as important as keeping hold of whatever gains I had made.

Hope this isn't too boring. Then I would start over a fresh betting low stakes or not betting at all until I find the next streak and so on until I had reached a descent amount or not.

What dissolves most RNG roulette players winnings IMO is probably not the master parameter settings you have alluded to, but the fast speed of the software game as opposed to a dealer driven game. This may cause erratic betting behaviour and the perception of time to be dilated along with a diluted account balance. Whereas when your in a game with a croupier person controlling the time of each game, that may give the player a breather to collect his thoughts on the bet sizes their currently playing and after a while, either get bored out of your mind with the slowness of it all and stop playing and cashout early. It possibly depends on the mind set of the player at that point in time, probably. Just go with what works better for you, if its live dealer, then play live dealer. Think of the poor slots players, they don't have the live option online and they don't seem to do too bad.

 

[casinoboy2k]

I had temporarily stopped playing online because of this.

I totally understand what Op is saying.

You end feeling a little cheated. The only game I primarily play online is Roulette.
Now, im not complaining. I have done really, really well at times.
But, here lately being in the US and stuck to only certain US Friendly Casinos, I have noted that the quick losing streaks happen so often and so fast that it would be easier to just write the casino a check and be done with it. So, I took a break. I dont believe in just throwing my hard earned money away. I play real roulette as well, so I have already compensated for the time taken between rounds such.

I think that is great advice about playing with lowered stakes and locking up your wins.
It makes one play more sensibly I think.

 

[herpiderp]

Is there any chance you kept a log of the results which feel manufactured rather than truly random? My suspicion is that they probably fall well within the boundaries of probability, but it always feels like something insidious is going against you when it's happening.

I think we all feel the losing streaks more keenly than the winning ones. I played through a hundred spins or so a couple of days ago, and I was getting so frustrated by my luck, starting to question the game and all that malarkey...then I looked at my bankroll and I was only about 5 bets down at the end of it all.

 

[Seventh777]

There is a huge difference between playing online number related games (Keno, Roulette etc) and land based ones, that difference being the RNG, as soon as you hit the button your outcome is predetermined in the virtual world of gambling, whereas at land based ones it is not governed by the fickle finger of fate that is the RNG Gods.

 

[ksb11]

There is a huge difference between playing online number related games (Keno, Roulette etc) and land based ones, that difference being the RNG, as soon as you hit the button your outcome is predetermined in the virtual world of gambling, whereas at land based ones it is not governed by the fickle finger of fate that is the RNG Gods.

A huge difference by way of results? Or should I ask, B@M casinos or online casinos, where does the player have a greater advantage? If random is random, does it really matter? I would think if RNG is truly a determining factor, I would think a certain group of numbers would be more likely to eventually come up playing online. However, when it comes down to it, if random truly is random, then I don't think it makes a difference if a certain number is predetermined before the spin, as long as that number is picked without bias by a computer regardless of any other factors. My only experience is playing online, though, and I can't compare B@M experience with online experience.

 

[Rick Deckard]

Some online casinos are using Quantum QRNG instead of software based Pseudo PRNG. It generates a random stream of bits, 1's and 0's, 16 million times a second.

A Swiss company manufactures these devices and some might say that the Swiss only know how to make Cuckoo clocks, but I think this technology isn't cuckoo and is a fairer method to adopt.

My question is would players have more faith in this technology if it was used on all online games from roulette to slots instead of a computed algorithmic source?

"Quantis uses Quantum Physics to create truly-random numbers

Existing randomness sources can be grouped in two classes: software solutions, which can only generate pseudo-random bit streams, and physical sources. In the latter, most random generators rely on classical physics to produce what looks like a random stream of bits. In reality, determinism is hidden behind complexity.
Contrary to classical physics, quantum physics is fundamentally random. It is the only theory within the fabric of modern physics that integrates randomness. Quantis uses this property to generate random numbers from quantum origin"

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[Seventh777]

A huge difference by way of results? Or should I ask, B@M casinos or online casinos, where does the player have a greater advantage? If random is random, does it really matter? I would think if RNG is truly a determining factor, I would think a certain group of numbers would be more likely to eventually come up playing online. However, when it comes down to it, if random truly is random, then I don't think it makes a difference if a certain number is predetermined before the spin, as long as that number is picked without bias by a computer regardless of any other factors. My only experience is playing online, though, and I can't compare B@M experience with online experience.

Personally I think there is far more chance of facing the house edge returns playing online roulette than playing at a land based one, although there are those random win spikes that appear to be the software balancing the books as such, land based casinos even though they have an house edge, you are far more likely to have a winning streak stretching over several sittings than you are at their online counterparts. If you have ever played land based Keno you will definitely notice the difference between the two, especially when playing a low return system, for a start a land based Keno game isn`t restricted to a 95%ish RTP.

So, in answering the question imho I think you would do better playing number related games at land based casinos.

 

[randomplay]

Thank you all for your helpful replies

 

[Jennifer]

lol i refuse to touch the game at most casinos and especially 3dice. I was making numerous bets and it kept missing the numbers, colors and basically everything. So I tried quite a few more times over a week or so and same thing. So I said okay this is getting weird. I decided to try something.

I placed bets on 33 of the 36 numbers. This is obviously a fairly dumb strategy but I wasnt trying to make money. I wanted to see if it would actually miss. I just couldnt believe my constant losses on their game. I spun the wheel and it landed on one of the three numbers I didnt bet on. I was like ok wow. Lets try this again. I didnt have enough money left for 33 bets so I bet around 26 different numbers. It missed again.

Customer support is great there but I have not returned since. I actually havent played in the paast 2 weeks(ish).

Im actually considering giving it up for good online. Plus Im having tonnes of fun on pokerstars

 

[gdbruyck]

RNG dynamics

In a nutshell I feel that RNG dynamics of an online roulette differ from random land/live roulette games. If online roulettes are sort of deterministic machines with some randomness within the system than it's no fun to play them. Or is my perception a gambler's fallacy one? Then howcome so many roulette players complain about RNG?

Would be great if you would like yo share your experience!

I don't complain about RNG; 'RNG roulette' (just make sure that you play only in a safe online casino) is much safer than a 'live roulette'.

The relative deviation between two equivalent (even) chances, for example Black and Red, can be MUCH larger with a 'live roulette' than a 'RNG roulette'.

For example, I have noted once in a B&M casino: RED 108; BLACK 178.

 

[ksb11]

I don't complain about RNG; 'RNG roulette' (just make sure that you play only in a safe online casino) is much safer than a 'live roulette'.

The relative deviation between two equivalent (even) chances, for example Black and Red, can be MUCH larger with a 'live roulette' than a 'RNG roulette'.

For example, I have noted once in a B&M casino: RED 108; BLACK 178.

Yea, but that's kinda what u'd expect, IMO, over the course of 286 spins. I mean over that amount of spins u'd expect to see some runs like that. If an individual just let it ride on black for 300 spins in a row they would be happy with the outcome. My point is u need runs like that in order 2 win as well as lose.

 

[Nate]

Online Roulette is practically a Slot IMPO - It conforms to a RTP - Unless Enzo or 3Dice can give me a better explanation?

I don't think i have ever played Roulette online (apart few spins here and there) But I have played lots of LIVE Roulette.

I have read that the Card / Roulette software at 3Dice is extremely streaky and there were a number of threads which turned ugly on the subject.

I would recommend you play Live Roulette at an Accredited / Reputable casino if your jurisdiction allows. As Seventh777 said, they are not governed by a RNG or RTP... (In any event - play where you feel comfortable about the results)

@Jennifer - In a thread - IIRC - Eliot Jacobson pointed out that one of the easiest ways that you could tell if a game was rigged was to place multiple bets and see how many times the open number landed. That could just be the RNG or luck, so i don't think anything untoward is happening - It would have easily been pointed out if it was the case.

Nate

 

[Cristian]

The way i see it the RNG picks a random outcome ( number , value , whatever ) but it`s influenced by your RTP . Thats why it always feels like playing slots and the losing streaks never feel natural . It`s a trick that most casino software uses . Might be just a mith , or im just beeing retarded , but i do believe that most players will start a session with a losing streak , and a pretty big one ( but still plausible ) . One would stop playing and forget about chasing loses , and thats how the casino turns a profit . If you make fuss about it , you`ll get the : sir you have not played the game enough . And that is true , but how much are you willing to spend just to prove a point ? On the long run you lose , yes , we all agree here , but in order to reach ( for example ) a 97% or 92% or whatever theoretical RTP , you might have to flatbet 1mil. spins or even more . Who does that ? Well the guys with the random number generator testing and certification do with dedicated software , but they don`t care if you as a player start by losing alot , if the final overall outcome is close to that theoretical RTP . So they get the green light , and you as a player endless doubts about the game fairness . Play 1mil. spins , you`ll get ahead at one point , sure , however after 1mil. spins with a 90% RTP by flatbetting , you`ll end up losing alot .
Blackjack does the same thing . Sometimes you get the feeling like you have two LOSE buttons instead of HIT , STAND . The RNG might generate random values , but the outcome of that sum of random values is controlled by the RTP . Now most of you will say that i have no idea about what i`m talking about . It`s just a theory and a non-confirmed one so lets just leave it at that . But i do know that there are some open-minded players out there that might know what i'm talking about . And also lets not forget about the players that actually think that by playing with a "SCI-FI" system they can beat the house . It is simply impossible , you cannot beat math .

To get things straight : I`m not saying that 3dice does this , i haven`t even played roulette there . I`m not trying to bash 3dice or whatever their "followers" might think . It`s just a general ideea , i might be wrong , but thats my experience with online gambling .

 

[Nifty29]

The way i see it the RNG picks a random outcome ( number , value , whatever ) but it`s influenced by your RTP . Thats why it always feels like playing slots and the losing streaks never feel natural . It`s a trick that most casino software uses . Might be just a mith , or im just beeing retarded , but i do believe that most players will start a session with a losing streak , and a pretty big one ( but still plausible ) . One would stop playing and forget about chasing loses , and thats how the casino turns a profit . If you make fuss about it , you`ll get the : sir you have not played the game enough . And that is true , but how much are you willing to spend just to prove a point ? On the long run you lose , yes , we all agree here , but in order to reach ( for example ) a 97% or 92% or whatever theoretical RTP , you might have to flatbet 1mil. spins or even more . Who does that ? Well the guys with the random number generator testing and certification do with dedicated software , but they don`t care if you as a player start by losing alot , if the final overall outcome is close to that theoretical RTP . So they get the green light , and you as a player endless doubts about the game fairness . Play 1mil. spins , you`ll get ahead at one point , sure , however after 1mil. spins with a 90% RTP by flatbetting , you`ll end up losing alot .
Blackjack does the same thing . Sometimes you get the feeling like you have two LOSE buttons instead of HIT , STAND . The RNG might generate random values , but the outcome of that sum of random values is controlled by the RTP . Now most of you will say that i have no idea about what i`m talking about . It`s just a theory and a non-confirmed one so lets just leave it at that . But i do know that there are some open-minded players out there that might know what i'm talking about . And also lets not forget about the players that actually think that by playing with a "SCI-FI" system they can beat the house . It is simply impossible , you cannot beat math .

To get things straight : I`m not saying that 3dice does this , i haven`t even played roulette there . I`m not trying to bash 3dice or whatever their "followers" might think . It`s just a general ideea , i might be wrong , but thats my experience with online gambling .

If the RNG is influenced by anything at all it is NOT random.

So, you obviously think the RNG isn't random....which is fine.....that's your opinion, but it is really what you're saying.

Those who insist that online casino table games aren't random usually base it on a complete misconception (like you have) I.e. that long winning and losing spells only happen online. We hear of players talking about how they "always win" when visiting land casinos and how they lose so much more online. Well, consider how long a hand of BJ takes online vs land....that pretty much explains it. If these players played the same number of hands on land they could just easily lose just as much.

When someone comes forward with evidence of events in online games that cannot happen in land games, I'm there.

One last question for you.....if the software allows you to win in the beginning and then rips you off, why haven't you made a killing there? It sounds like there's a certain method to win using that information. If your answer is "well it doesn't do it all the time", then how does it decide when to do it? How does it know you're going to keep playing past the winning hands I.e. before the losing hands kick in?

I don't mean to give you a hard time. All of these are legitimate questions based on your statements. I know they're just your opinions, but if you're going to post them you should be prepared to back them up with logic or evidence.

 

[KasinoKing]

Online Roulette is practically a Slot IMPO - It conforms to a RTP - Unless Enzo or 3Dice can give me a better explanation?

Well I would imagine their explanation would be something like this:
You have 37 numbers on the wheel, and whichever random number comes out, the winning spot returns 36 units for each unit bet on the winning number (pro-rata for any bet spread over 2 or more numbers).
Therefore the return is 36/37 = 97.297% over the long run, no matter where, when or how you place your bets.
The game does not have to be rigged to achieve this and I fail to understand why anyone thinks it must be...

IMHO online roulette no more "conforms to an RTP" than live roulette does.
It's a very simple game with very simple maths which gives the house edge.

KK