Rizk - source of wealth request

[Deleted member 37551]

Congrats Interlog for winning this "fight" ! Surely the result would have been different if the Captain wouldn't been around.

And last but not least, congrats Casinomeister for making sure that accredited casinos do always have active reps around !

Denis

sorry I missed the subject entirely,maybe next time

 

[Valhalla]

I hope that is not a powertalk,I am used to big wins in Casinos and online Casinos but the only way to walk out a Casino with 10000 euro cash is to go to one ,the only rules I know are on the online Casinos

THIS.

Why are online casinos the only ones with this utterly ABSURD set of rules?

 

[colinsunderland]

THIS.

Why are online casinos the only ones with this utterly ABSURD set of rules?

Land based casinos have to follow AML too, as do every financial organisation as far as I'm aware.

 

[Valhalla]

Land based casinos have to follow AML too, as do every financial organisation as far as I'm aware.

But would you have to bring proof of address, identity, and ownership of funds to a B&M? Proof of Wealth?

 

[colinsunderland]

But would you have to bring proof of address, identity, and ownership of funds to a B&M? Proof of Wealth?

If you are a high risk customer, then yes, certainly in the UK. I don't use land based casinos but friends have told me they have been turned away from some as they didn't have ID with them.

Just a little extra to my post above about only asking for ID/proof of wealth at the withdrawal stage, heres what the UKGC says about it

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Gambling operators are being reminded that if they only request identity documents when a customer withdraws their funds, they could be putting their business at risk of failing to meet their anti-money laundering (AML) and social responsibility requirements – and in turn breaching the conditions of their licence.

This comes off the back of a number of instances where we have found operators requesting customer identity documentation only at the point of the customer withdrawing funds. There may have been little or no engagement with the customer before this point – this is a practice that does not demonstrate that the operator is managing the money laundering and social responsibility risks to their business effectively.

As I said earlier, there is no reason for a casino to only request documents on withdrawal, in my view it should be done by a set point in the customer journey. Same as source of wealth requests, I don't think I've seen one being mentioned as being requested at any other stage except withdrawal. They should be done as soon as a trigger is made, which certainly should not be on withdrawal every single time, in fact, I would suggest on withdrawal would be very uncommon.

 

[Valhalla]

If you are a high risk customer, then yes, certainly in the UK.

ID I can understand, but the rest I am surprised about.

 

[colinsunderland]

ID I can understand, but the rest I am surprised about.

It all comes under the same rules, just small differences between land and remote casinos

 

[interlog]

If you are a high risk customer, then yes, certainly in the UK. I don't use land based casinos but friends have told me they have been turned away from some as they didn't have ID with them.

Just a little extra to my post above about only asking for ID/proof of wealth at the withdrawal stage, heres what the UKGC says about it

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Gambling operators are being reminded that if they only request identity documents when a customer withdraws their funds, they could be putting their business at risk of failing to meet their anti-money laundering (AML) and social responsibility requirements – and in turn breaching the conditions of their licence.

This comes off the back of a number of instances where we have found operators requesting customer identity documentation only at the point of the customer withdrawing funds. There may have been little or no engagement with the customer before this point – this is a practice that does not demonstrate that the operator is managing the money laundering and social responsibility risks to their business effectively.

As I said earlier, there is no reason for a casino to only request documents on withdrawal, in my view it should be done by a set point in the customer journey. Same as source of wealth requests, I don't think I've seen one being mentioned as being requested at any other stage except withdrawal. They should be done as soon as a trigger is made, which certainly should not be on withdrawal every single time, in fact, I would suggest on withdrawal would be very uncommon.

In fairness to Rizk, they did ask me first time for these source of wealth documents following a deposit. I advised them they are not going to have them. They didn't respond to this and didn't do anything with my account and let me carry on depositing and withdrawing until today when it triggered again on my withdrawal.

What I also don't get is that a few months ago at Rizk I was prompted to tick a box that all of my funds were legit. What was the point of that tick box exercise if physical documents are still required?

 

[Deleted member 37551]

I hope that is not a powertalk,I am used to big wins in Casinos and online Casinos but the only way to walk out a Casino with 10000 euro cash is to go to one ,the only rules I know are on the online Casinos

I have to adjust this reply,I was not referring to Rizk but Colin and the threads he posted about hughs payouts and the rules before withdrawals(see above)

 

[colinsunderland]

In fairness to Rizk, they did ask me first time for these source of wealth documents following a deposit. I advised them they are not going to have them. They didn't respond to this and didn't do anything with my account and let me carry on depositing and withdrawing until today when it triggered again on my withdrawal.

What I also don't get is that a few months ago at Rizk I was prompted to tick a box that all of my funds were legit. What was the point of that tick box exercise if physical documents are still required?

I stand corrected, I've seen one Still they didn't actually enforce it until you requested a withdrawal though, so basically, happy for you to lose your 'stolen' funds, but when it comes to giving you money that might have came from 'stolen' funds then thats a different story. Again, not aimed solely at Rizk!
And yes, I'm aware it was a mistake, but strange how mistakes never benefit the customer, always the casino.

That document is talking about all ID requests though not just these, KYC procedures too

 

[Deleted member 37551]

I have to adjust this reply,I was not referring to Rizk but Colin and the threads he posted about hughs payouts and the rules before withdrawals(see above)

I stand corrected, I've seen one Still they didn't actually enforce it until you requested a withdrawal though, so basically, happy for you to lose your 'stolen' funds, but when it comes to giving you money that might have came from 'stolen' funds then thats a different story. Again, not aimed solely at Rizk!

That document is talking about all ID requests though not just these, KYC procedures too

I really do not understand this,I am used to verify my account if the Casino request that,I was not further then if I do not verify my accounts when the casino asks for it,I do not get paid

 

[colinsunderland]

I really do not understand this,I am used to verify my account if the Casino request that,I was not further then if I do not verify my accounts when the casino asks for it,I do not get paid

Thats right, they can, if they want, ask you for further information, such as where you got the funds from you are playing with. They can ask for bank statements, payslips that type of thing. If you do not supply them then no one really knows what happens as none of the reps will answer with a definite answer.

 

[Deleted member 37551]

Thats right, they can, if they want, ask you for further information, such as where you got the funds from you are playing with. They can ask for bank statements, payslips that type of thing. If you do not supply them then no one really knows what happens as none of the reps will answer with a definite answer.

Does that mean deposits of large amounts of money?,I deposit a lot but I have never had such a request from a Casino,

sorry for that

 

[colinsunderland]

The only trigger I can think off is the one instance where I hit on DHV on the very first spin and I withdrew the amount I deposited immediately and left the balance of my deposit to play with. It ensured a break even session without breaking the terms of having to turn over my deposit once. If that is not allowed anymore then I give up online gambling to be honest.

I missed this post somehow, but that is likely what triggered it, if you withdrew before turning over the deposit, it wouldn't matter that you did afterward, the system probably saw you deposit, then almost immediately withdraw. That is one of the few cases where a request on withdrawal would be justified. Even then though, your account should be looked at as a whole, not just on the one transaction.

I knew someone who was money laundering in william hills. He would take a stack of cash in, pump £500 in a FOTB, play £1 on roulette, then withdraw, take a photo of the ticket, go to counter and cashout, getting a receipt too. He actually got caught and got 15 months in jail, for an accountant he was pretty stupid, there are enough bookies in Sunderland for him to do £500 in each a day and easily get though £20k a day. He wouldn't have got caught either, he got caught as a head office audit showed the massive amount being done daily (it was usually between £5 and £10k a day) and they called police, they checked CCTV, and got him like that.

 

[colinsunderland]

Does that mean deposits of large amounts of money?,I deposit a lot but I have never had such a request from a Casino,

sorry for that

It can be many things, but yes, large deposits could trigger it, probably under the responsible gaming rules rather than anti money laundering Where are you? If you aren't within the EU it might not affect you.

 

[Deleted member 37551]

I missed this post somehow, but that is likely what triggered it, if you withdrew before turning over the deposit, it wouldn't matter that you did afterward, the system probably saw you deposit, then almost immediately withdraw. That is one of the few cases where a request on withdrawal would be justified. Even then though, your account should be looked at as a whole, not just on the one transaction.

I knew someone who was money laundering in william hills. He would take a stack of cash in, pump £500 in a FOTB, play £1 on roulette, then withdraw, take a photo of the ticket, go to counter and cashout, getting a receipt too. He actually got caught and got 15 months in jail, for an accountant he was pretty stupid, there are enough bookies in Sunderland for him to do £500 in each a day and easily get though £20k a day. He wouldn't have got caught either, he got caught as a head office audit showed the massive amount being done daily (it was usually between £5 and £10k a day) and they called police, they checked CCTV, and got him like that.

If You think about how much money is made with illegal activity then that is probably not the only case I guess

 

[Deleted member 37551]

It can be many things, but yes, large deposits could trigger it, probably under the responsible gaming rules rather than anti money laundering Where are you? If you aren't within the EU it might not affect you.

it does not affect me at all,I have a completely different life (in the EU)

 

[nikantw]

What also bothered me was this from the MM jackpot win in SM:

"We did all checks on him....... responsible limits and all....."

Does this mean that a SOW request will be asked on every big win, and if they see that you deposited more than x% of your income they won't pay? Even a jackpot?!

 

[interlog]

I missed this post somehow, but that is likely what triggered it, if you withdrew before turning over the deposit, it wouldn't matter that you did afterward, the system probably saw you deposit, then almost immediately withdraw. That is one of the few cases where a request on withdrawal would be justified. Even then though, your account should be looked at as a whole, not just on the one transaction.

I am pretty confident it was that what triggered it because they first of all refused to pay me and returned the money back in my account citing I didn't turn the money over once. I responded by saying that I did because I deposited £200, did one spin and got the balance up to over £400. Took out £200 and played with the rest. They apologised afterwards and even gave me a little comp. And, again, there was no communication - I had to contact them what happened!

I use this tool often. Once I double my balance, I withdraw to break even and continue playing with the remainder. This does regularly happen when I have not turned the deposit over once.

Is this seen as money laundering? If so, I will stop this practice.

 

[nikantw]

I use this tool often. Once I double my balance, I withdraw to break even and continue playing with the remainder. This does regularly happen when I have not turned the deposit over once.
Is this seen as money laundering? If so, I will stop this practice.

It is the only way I know for playing responsibly, cashout every big win. I do get the "turn the deposit over once" rule before a withdrawal, you were supposed to wait before you cashout.
It is a fine line there, between gambling responsibly and that rule, you can do it if you are careful but if they increase it to "play 2 times your deposit" then it would definitely mean irresponsible gambling.

I find Rizk way better than VS in the RG aspect, if you win big. VS has a cashout monthly limit of 30k, that means if you have a few 4 figure wins you may reach that 30k limit and not be able to play responsibly any more (because they won't let you cashout any more for 30 days). They say at VS that they will lift that limit for a huge win, but for RG you need to cashout all the >50x wins, not just the "once in a lifetime" >5000x one.

 

[budskap]

if they increase it to "play 2 times your deposit" then it would definitely mean irresponsible gambling

Stopped playing at Slotsmillion because of this.

Terms says "As required by our licensing regulation, any real money deposit is subject to wagering at least twice before it can be withdrawn." Sounds like a lame excuse since most (?) other casinos has only 1x.

 

[Deleted member 37551]

I think everyone should have the liberty to play how they want to,without limitation

 

[ed skull murphy]

If I have a nice win at a new casino, try to withdraw, and then get the 'you must turn over your deposit' even just once.... I am so out of there!

That's it, as far as I am concerned. I'll play through my deposit and close the account.

Imagine going to a land based casino and the cashier charging a fee for converting your cash into chips, and vice versa.

Imagine going to a land based casino, and before you can cash in your chips, the cashier telling you that you have to turn over everything you have in your wallet, before you can make a withdrawal.

???

It's just too ridiculous for words!

Casino operators, please listen up, this practice is unacceptable, and will cost you customers.

Your outfit will eventually go to the wall if you practice these kinds of shenanigans.

 

[goatwack]

If casinos cared so greatly about a person's source of income, surely they'd ask before you deposit. Because, you know, they need to know that you're not a reckless degenerate, or legendary money- launderer.

Yet they won't, because it would put every player off ever playing. So they can't care that much after all.......

God help the hapless player that attempts to cashout a mini fortune from a minute deposit. Then it's 'guity before proven innocent', convenient, that

As it stands, and how casinos have 'adopted' these guidelines, no player is going to refuse a large cashout by not submitting superflous information. It's all a sham

 

[colinsunderland]

If I have a nice win at a new casino, try to withdraw, and then get the 'you must turn over your deposit' even just once.... I am so out of there!

That's it, as far as I am concerned. I'll play through my deposit and close the account.

Imagine going to a land based casino and the cashier charging a fee for converting your cash into chips.

Imagine going to a land based casino, and before you can cash in your chips, the cashier telling you that you have to turn over everything you have in your wallet, before you can make a withdrawal.

???

It's just too ridiculous for words!

Casino operators, please listen up, this practice is unacceptable, and will cost you customers.

Your outfit will eventually go to the wall if you practice these kinds of shenanigans.

Its the law that they have to do it isn't it? As for closing your account if they do, you can't have many accounts left as I don't know a single casino thats UK licensed that doesn't say you have to turn your deposit over once, apart from bookies, who tend not to enforce it.