1. By continuing to use the site, you agree to the use of cookies .This website or its third-party tools use cookies, which are necessary to its functioning and required to achieve the purposes illustrated in the cookie policy.Find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Follow Casinomeister on Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Casinomeister.us US Residents Click here! |  Svenska Svenska | 
Dismiss Notice
REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do diddly squat without having been registered!

At the moment you have limited access to view most discussions: you can't make contact with thousands of fellow players, affiliates, casino reps, and all sorts of other riff-raff.

Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Casinomeister here!

Rival video poker

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by tennis_balls, Dec 3, 2006.

    Dec 3, 2006
  1. tennis_balls

    tennis_balls Dormant account

    Occupation:
    fish n chips promoter
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    I noticed today that Rival VP has same paytable as MG (at least it's the same for dueces wild) They also allow you to play with smaller coins which is a good option for low rollers who don't like going $5 a pop for 4 handed VP.

    I did find a small error with their autoplay (at least I think it's an error as MG wouldn't hold a 10 and 2 deuces) Also, if you get delt just one deuce I think you have to manually hold that card.
     
  2. Dec 4, 2006
  3. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    Rival autohold works is a bit similar to Playtech. If it can see any winning combination it will hold these cards. So if you only get 2 dueces it actually pick a third card to held so you will have 3 of a kind which is a winning hand :eek:

    Bascially I prefer autohold to be totally disabled if it can not hold correct. I like the 4-hand Rival VP though but it takes a little time to get used to the resizing cards. But my luck there really sucks. I have also been playing dueces wild and I estimate I have passed 2+ dueces cycles (8000 hands) at least without hitting dueces(or RF). Also JoB took my money very fast.

    Only other place that has ever happened has been at Winward casino where I passed 5 dueces cycles (single hand dueces wild). Since both are properitary software it always makes me suspecious. No third independant company has confirmed it indeed is true VP and not slot-logic - or is there?

    However it would take a lot more data to prove anything. But I stopped playing at Winward casino though for that reason. VP double there also felt wierd. Seems I lost too many times on the third double which is the highest allowed and and of course never hit the dueces. And the paytable was not even up that good.

    For Rival I still believe I have been unlucky and I will hope my next bonuses will go better. The paytables are good there at least. 9/6 JoB and 'MG' Dueces Wild.

    Zoozie
     
  4. Dec 4, 2006
  5. me_and_ed

    me_and_ed Ueber Meister CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Selling out
    Location:
    Vancouver

    Maybe Cocoa Rob can shed light on this situation.
     
  6. Dec 4, 2006
  7. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    Edit: I estimate I 'only' played 8000 hands (2 cycles) without dueces or RF at Rival. So this can happen, but still sucks. Sometimes I have also hit
    2 RF without 1000 hands (not at rival) which makes up.

    Yes, would be interesting how hear if any independant company has
    tested Rival card game for 'randomness'. Not because I have any doubt yet, despite my bad luck, but simply because it should be industry standard to have that.

    But I am sure they are intended to be fair. Because it can be hard to actually make a true random card game it should still be tested.

    Grandmaster once linked to this interesting article:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    However for me personally I would prefer to have Winward casino since this is the only casino I have serious doubt about fairness, except when I played at English Harbour of course.

    Zoozie
     
  8. Dec 4, 2006
  9. RobRival

    RobRival Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical Support
    Location:
    Canada
    Rival VP

    Hello everyone,

    As Zoozie noted, Rival uses a "basic" auto hold for winning hands only. You may turn off the auto hold by going to the game options. We chose this as we believe it's more fun than having a computer play for you.

    You may also turn off the card resizing/animation by changing the game to "fast mode".

    The RNG used by Rival has been certified by CertainKey. It is based on the Fortuna algorithm which is widely accepted as a statistically sound source of random numbers. All of Rival's games depend on this RNG to ensure a random and fair game is dealt.

    As for the number of hands placed by Zoozie, because you brought it up I thought I should clarify - you placed 1710 "for real" wagers in Video Poker (including multi line), and no fun wagers as far as I can see. This is quite a small sample size, and simply multiplying by 4 due to multi hand is not accurate. In fact, the variance goes up. Check out this article to learn more about n-line VP. You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Thanks everyone, and best of luck!

    Rob
    Rival Technical Support
     
  10. Dec 4, 2006
  11. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    oops, double post
     
  12. Dec 4, 2006
  13. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount. webby PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Lest we forget the law of large numbers:

     
  14. Dec 4, 2006
  15. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    You are right of course. I had played 10K$ wagers and estimated about 2000 start hands at 4-line dueces wild, which gives the 8000 hands. It is only 2 dueces cycles and I also wrote myself it very very possibly and as you write variance goes up because correlation between the hands.

    However passing 5 cycles in single hand dueces wild at Winward made me suspecious, but I do not know how to do the statistics. Anyway, this thread is not about Winward.

    If I have not hit dueces at least in the next 20000 hands at Rival, I will start raising a small flag :)

    I can see you also publish the payout% for the videopoker games under the help-page as for your slots, I appriciate this. The only other software provider I have seen do this WagerWorks. (virgin, paddypower)

    I will do some reading about the Fortuna algorithm :)

    Zoozie
     
  16. Dec 4, 2006
  17. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Gamblingtools.net had a calculator that calculated the return of various VP games, unfortunately the site is offline now, but the same program can be found at You must register/login in order to see the link. and You must register/login in order to see the link. has tables for a host different versions of VP and various paytables.

    You must register/login in order to see the link. has some info on Fortuna, but you should probably get a copy of Practical Cryptography by Ferguson and Schneier, which is a great book.
     
  18. Dec 5, 2006
  19. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    I hit 4 deuces at Cocoa once, maybe twice some time ago. It was on the 4-hand version, and only on one of the 4 hands, with a lilliputian bet (25 a hand / $1 total bet) that I did not deem worthy of taking a screenshot of. I have not yet hit a royal flush there, but I do feel that their VP is fair. And I have probably played less hands than Zoozie has.

    Just my 2. :thumbsup:
     
  20. Dec 5, 2006
  21. cheekymonkey

    cheekymonkey Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    Loser
    Location:
    Back at my mums
    Eeeermmm....yes -

    Only if your name is Babbage or Cauchy!

    :eek2:
     
  22. Dec 18, 2006
  23. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    I have now played almost 2 more cycles of 'Dueces Wild' single hand VP at Rival. Those dueces kept evading me. But finally I got it, pat actually. Think I had to get it pat, since I could not possible draw to it :)

    Zoozie
     
  24. Dec 18, 2006
  25. gerilege

    gerilege Meister Member PABnorogue PABrogue

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Hungary
    I also believe it's fair

    I have played probably less than 1000 hands (1-handed), and I got 4 deuces after drawing to 2 deuces.
     
  26. Dec 18, 2006
  27. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    I also believe it is fair. I was just a little unlucky. But I will post again after 20000 more hands :)

    Zoozie
     
  28. Dec 18, 2006
  29. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I've come across this before elsewhere (can't remember where) and while it looks like an error, in actual fact the extra card held represents the best chance taking flushes, straights and the discarded cards into account. So you may find that while it's negligable, the % difference is indeed a small amount in your favour. It's only a guess in this instance, but if the two discarded cards were for example a 3 and a 6 of different suits to the 10, it would give you a small advantage holding the 10 as you have removed two cards that are almost entirely useless in any positive outcome (well, the 6 could have a very slim advantage at the end of a straight 6-10). If it discarded the 10 aswell, then you are reducing the chance of straights between 6 and Ace which all must include a 10. Dunno if I explained that well enough, but it makes sense in my head :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2006
  30. Dec 18, 2006
  31. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    If you get two dueces and nothing else at Rival VP, then it will hold the 2 dueces and the highest card. This is a gigantic mistake actually.

    Holding 22T instead of just 22 is an error of 26.98c (given 1$ total bet).
    I believe it is playtech it reminds you of.

    Zoozie
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2006
  32. Dec 19, 2006
  33. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    My luck with their vp has been just awful this week. I know I haven't hit a four of a kind on the last few deposits, and I just blew another $150 on a 4-handed game with not even one full house.
     
  34. Feb 9, 2007
  35. tennis_balls

    tennis_balls Dormant account

    Occupation:
    fish n chips promoter
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    no multi-hand?

    oops! i thought Rival had dropped the multi-hand VP. i now see that they have just changed their set-up so one can pick a game (i.e. Deuces Wild) and then switch between 1 or 4 hands
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2007

Share This Page