Rival & Canada

[vinylweatherman]

The law regarding online gambling in Canada is vague when the casino ownership is outside of Canada. If the casino operators are Canadians and they are operating in Canada, it falls under the regular gambling laws (just like land based casinos) and it's illegal.

So IF those 4 individuals are Canadians (and it appears that they are), and they own most/all of the rival casinos (this is where the speculation resides), they cannot operate in Canada. When T2 went to court with Rival, it seems that they revealed that those 4 people were behind the ownership of all the Rival casinos and Canadian players got the boot.

This was the logical explanation given for the Canadian ban at the time (not by Rival though). If Rival claims this is innaccurate, why are all Rival operators bound by this policy, as surely they are independent and Rival just supply the software and some back end services.

Is it illegal for a Canadian company to produce gambling software and license it to an operator that decides to take Canadian players?

 

[Balthazar]

Is it illegal for a Canadian company to produce gambling software and license it to an operator that decides to take Canadian players?

No. The Canadian Criminal Code says that it's illegal to operate any form of common betting house (including an online gambling site) in Canada. There's nothing that says that Canadians can't play and there's nothing that talks about being a software provider.

That's like the company that makes the poker tables used in a poker room. It's not illegal to make the tables, but it's illegal to run the poker room.

So basically, it's only illegal if you're in Canada and you operate an online casino where Canadians can play*.

*Unless it's run by the state
*Laws do not apply to Native Canadians (Indians) (ie: Kahnawake)

 

[vinylweatherman]

No. The Canadian Criminal Code says that it's illegal to operate any form of common betting house (including an online gambling site) in Canada. There's nothing that says that Canadians can't play and there's nothing that talks about being a software provider.

That's like the company that makes the poker tables used in a poker room. It's not illegal to make the tables, but it's illegal to run the poker room.

So basically, it's only illegal if you're in Canada and you operate an online casino where Canadians can play*.

*Unless it's run by the state
*Laws do not apply to Native Canadians (Indians) (ie: Kahnawake)

Well, Rival would only break the law by "operating" a casino using it's software, which we all know was done through Bonne Chance. The logical conclusion is that this mysterious quartet did not just own a company that made gambling software, but owned a company that operated casinos. This draws us to the conclusion that they had a controlling interest in Bonne Chance, even though players were told that Bonne Chance just provided support services such as payments and player support, with the actual operation being done by small teams, many of whom had no idea what they were doing, and so kept going bust.

Rival have always been guarded about the inner workings of this odd white label setup, and as more has been discovered, it has looked more and more like Bonne Chance did much more than provide centralised support services for independent Rival operators.

It implies that this quartet decided it was too risky to have a court looking at this corporate structure, so ceased providing services to Canadian players before the authorities had a chance to use what had been revealed to launch their own investigations.

Interestingly RTG faced a similar dilema before UIGEA, and moved it's corporate HQ from Atlanta to Costa Rica. If they were merely the software supplier, why the need to do this? Has Microsoft even been charged by the RIAA over piracy just because their OS software is being used to do it.

 

[Casinomeister]

Since Rival is fully aware that I am on the road - I would appreciate it if they would join this discussion to set the story straight instead of hiding behind their lawyers. MGS, RTG, Playtech and numerous others have been scrutinized publicly - and they were able to offer statements pertaining to whatever issue was being discussed.

Rival reps are reading this. It would be in good form to step up to the plate and offer us an official statement. Thank you.

 

[Balthazar]

Since Rival is fully aware that I am on the road - I would appreciate it if they would join this discussion to set the story straight instead of hiding behind their lawyers.

Holy crap.

Hey Rival,

We are only speculating with the bits of information that we have, which is PERFECTLY LEGAL. It was mentionned numerous times in this thread that if you think that what we say is wrong, you should tell us what is correct and what is incorrect. You think that if CM would delete this thread everything would just go away? NEWSFLASH: IT WON'T.

 

[Casinomeister]

Holy crap.

Hey Rival,

We are only speculating with the bits of information that we have, which is PERFECTLY LEGAL. It was mentionned numerous times in this thread that if you think that what we say is wrong, you should tell us what is correct and what is incorrect. You think that if CM would delete this thread everything would just go away? NEWSFLASH: IT WON'T.

Well the joke is that they have a rep in the forum who hasn't bothered to log in and post an update/correction/rebuttal:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

I've PMd the person to see what's up, but he hasn't logged in since July.

Apparently, Rival doesn't see this as a conversation between forum members which is a real shame. If there is any false statements being made, they have all the resources to refute these. That's why we have a forum. This thread could have been a great public relations thread which they could have used to their advantage. Looks like this is not the case.

More on this later - I'm in LAX heading home.

 

[Balthazar]

This thread could have been a great public relations thread which they could have used to their advantage. Looks like this is not the case.

More on this later - I'm in LAX heading home.

Yes, please keep us updated when you get home.

 

[Casinomeister]

Since Rival is fully aware that I am on the road - I would appreciate it if they would join this discussion to set the story straight instead of hiding behind their lawyers. MGS, RTG, Playtech and numerous others have been scrutinized publicly - and they were able to offer statements pertaining to whatever issue was being discussed.

Rival reps are reading this. It would be in good form to step up to the plate and offer us an official statement. Thank you.

Well, they never stood up to the plate. I have not received any official statement concerning their position on Canada - or anything to do with the topics brought up in this thread.

The only thing I received was an ill-thought out letter sent from Rival's legal reps to both me and Network solutions (Casinomeister.com's registrar host) instructing me to remove this thread and to make an apology. It wasn't even signed by an individual - the closing was only a scribbled name of the legal firm.

I explained to Rival's administration - and to their legal reps - that I know my rights as a webmaster and that threatening me with this sort of bully tactic to remove legitimate comments left me "highly disappointed and downright astonished." I even offered to discuss this in person in Barcelona - but they did not take me up on this. I presume that they weren't there.

I told them that "I am willing to publish a statement from you that refutes any comments being made in that thread and close it." That was over two weeks ago. So for over two weeks the ball was in their court, and they never acted on it. I will give them credit for responding and apologizing for being aggressive and said it wouldn't happen again. Fine. But a less experienced webmaster would probably have caved and heeded to their demands.

As administrator of this forum, I am closing their Casino Rep account (which has laid dormant anyway). If they feel they have no need for this account, then that's fine by me.

If anyone has any issues with Rival casinos, they can contact either a casino rep in the forum or their licensing agency which is primarily Curacao. All non-accredited Rivals are on the "No Can Do" list - Slots Capital is the only Rival Casino that is listed here. The PAB service is off limits to all but Slots Capital.

Thread upgraded to closed. We're done here.