Rival Bonus Ban explained with permission from casino rep

[2young2care]

Yes, I'm the latest to be bonus banned. Mine came from Paradise 8. I was towards the end of the wagering requirements of a 250% bonus and I was up.... ALOT. I had made a $25 deposit and at one point I had my balance to over $1000. I was all proud of myself and everything. (I'll post some of my screenshots in the WS thread later.) I had been playing for several hours straight and just couldn't keep my eyes open any longer, so decided to go to bed and finish my wagering requirements the next evening.

Next night, I log on to the casino and begin to play. Hey, wait a minute. I can't choose a .10 coin size! The highest I can choose is a .05. OK, that's weird, but I'll go ahead and play a little. I played a few games and then noticed that my comp points had not increased at all since I logged into the casino. Hey, that's weird too! So I go to live chat and inquire what is going on and they tell me they have to forward my problem to management. Alright, that gets me thinking that I'm going to have a huge problem trying to withdraw once I reach my wagering requirements, so I contact the rep here to see if he can help explain. Boy, does he ever explain!

Basically, he told me I was a "bonus abuser". I nearly had a heart attack! What???? I follow every rule to the letter, how can I be an abuser?? Well, he proceeded to explain why I was a bonus abuser. I have cashed out from 3 bonuses in the past from Paradise 8. With each bonus, I cashed out within 10% of reaching the WR. Yes, I fulfilled all the WR. But they want us to continue to wager after that. At least 130% after reaching WR. Basically, what I took from his explanation is that the casino gives these bonuses as gifts to us and we are being considered rude if we fulfill WR and take the dough and run. So consider this post a public service announcement so that each of you can make an informed decision as to whether you would like to claim bonuses with Rival. I am posting, with Jason's permission, his explanation of Rival's position:

By no means do I want players who have no intention of abuse to be "labeled" as such and I truly apologize for any hurt feelings as a result but the reason for the security is legitimate.

Just to help you understand where Rival is coming from. When players constantly claim bonuses with the intention of consistently cashing out as soon as they meet the wagering requirements it creates a dangerous and potentially negative situation for the casino. If this happens often enough the casino either has to either drastically cut back their bonuses altogether or risk eventually going broke.

At Paradise 8 we have no intention of cutting back on our bonuses as we pride ourselves in being very generous with our players. I'm sure you can see why then, it's important to make sure that promotions are being used as they are intended, as gifts and not a way to gain an edge on the casino by barely meeting wagering requirements then cashing out.

In any case, I'm sure your intentions were entirely innocent as many others are, but the system thats in place must prevent promotions from any player with this bonus claiming style, regardless of intentions as I'm sure you understand.

So this is what you need to do if you like Rival casinos as much as I do and want to continue to be able to claim bonuses, earn comp points, and enjoy unlimited coin sizes. I wish I had known this wish of the casino's before I claimed bonuses there. I might have been a little more discerning when choosing which bonuses to claim if I had known beforehand that the casino wants me to continue wagering after meeting WR. I certainly wasn't intending to be impolite by cashing out when I had delivered my end of the bargain. I'm not sure why they just don't hike the WR to an acceptable level for them.

I am wavering between being miffed that they held me to a super-secret agenda that I would have been happy to comply with if I had known about it, or just being happy I've had the cashouts and good time playing that I have previously enjoyed with them (even when I lose). After all, I firmly believe a casino has the right to offer bonuses and the right to withdraw them if they want to do that. That said, I want to follow the rules. But I can only follow the rules if I know what all of them are.

So now you all know the rules. Wager at least 130% of your D+B after meeting WR and you'll live happily ever after in Rival BonusLand.

 

[hippo925]

So.... would that be like my vegas hotels telling me that i no longer qualify for free rooms because the last time i took them up on three free nights i stayed all three nights instead of just staying two?

Regardless, very helpful and educational post! Thank you!

 

[ballysdb]

I thought that's what the W/R were for!?

If they give you a 250% match bonus and ask you to play it through only once (fair) you could then cash out. But they would think that was "abusive" on the part of the player, so they give us 10 or 30 times W/R's. How the hell are we supposed to know it's "impolite" to wager only what they tell us???

I find this most bizzare...

 

[RobWin]

So.... would that be like my vegas hotels telling me that i no longer qualify for free rooms because the last time i took them up on three free nights i stayed all three nights instead of just staying two?

Regardless, very helpful and educational post! Thank you!

No, it would be more like them telling you that you no longer qualify for free rooms because the last time you took them up on three free nights you either stayed in your room the whole time and never put any of your money at risk in their casino or that the entire time of your stay with them you went and played at another casino !!

I have always kinda known of this unknown bonus rule as all of the casino brands look at this sort of play so I have always tried to play for at least a couple of hours longer AFTER I knew that I had already met the wager requirements just so I could show them that I was not a bonus whore as far as just meeting the wager requirements and then quickly cashing out...

 

[chuchu59]

I was once told that I abused a bonus when I had only wagered 1% more than the WRs. The problem is that coincidentally I reached the WRs just as I attained the max possible cashout so why should I risk my funds any more.

I think Rival is daft in saying you need to wager 130% more after meeting WRs. Be honest and just state the WRs as being the initial one multiplied by 2.3. Then there wont be any bonus abusers but of course with these incredulous bonus requirements they might not have any takers.

 

[hippo925]

No, it would be more like them telling you that you no longer qualify for free rooms because the last time you took them up on three free nights you either stayed in your room the whole time and never put any of your money at risk in their casino or that the entire time of your stay with them you went and played at another casino !!

Or... would it be more like i no longer get free rooms because the last time i stayed three free nights.... i won. AND i can only get free nights if i lose the value of the "free" nights... However.. i don't think vegas casinos work that way, lol!

These bonuses are designed to be difficult to complete and most often only enable extended playtime and enjoyment. I hardly believe the wagering requirements and restrictions are designed to be beneficial to the player and are, in fact, in place to prevent players from abusing the bonuses. The fact that someone adheres to the wr's and restrictions AND cashes out does not make them a bonus abuser!

I cannot make this more clear! This system that most rivals use is essentially telling you that if you are worthy of bonuses, you have a giant sticker on your forehead that says "LOSER" or "SUCKER!" THEY COULD NOT BE MAKING THIS MORE CLEAR. For heaven's sake, play at the independent rivals or other casinos and let the rest know that their obvious contempt for their players will not be tolerated. (phew.. don't know what got into me...sorry )

Ah...and for those who believe bonuses are a heavenly gift and not something that should be expected from an online casino, please let me know how the online casinos are getting you your free meals, shows, rooms, etc. AND as soon as my vegas casinos tell me that there will no longer be any comps or rewards for my play, i will be the first to swallow my words.

 

[RobWin]

I was once told that I abused a bonus when I had only wagered 1% more than the WRs. The problem is that coincidentally I reached the WRs just as I attained the max possible cashout so why should I risk my funds any more.
I think Rival is daft in saying you need to wager 130% more after meeting WRs. Be honest and just state the WRs as being the initial one multiplied by 2.3. Then there wont be any bonus abusers but of course with these incredulous bonus requirements they might not have any takers.

I agree Chu, that is a totally different circumstance there when a max cashout is involved and this unknown bonus rule should not even be considered in this case !!

 

[Jasminebed]

Well, thank you Jason for permitting your policy to be posted here. It's hard to win using a bonus with 20 or 30 times WR attached. The odd time I do manage a cashout, I do not think I should be considered a "bonus abuser". It's your bonus, so set terms that are favourable to your casino.

And if I took a sign-up bonus and got this treatment, I would not be making any future deposits. Do online casinos not want us to return with our winnings to make future deposits?

I read T&C's and check with support via livechat, to make sure I understand. No one has ever said...better keep playing, or we don't really want your business.

 

[chuchu59]

Okay, assumptions:

1/ 100% cashable slots bonus with 30x WR.

2/ RTP at 95% on average

3/ No min cashout.

I think that many bonuses are like these in Rival casinos with some perhaps more stringent with non-cashable bonuses, 1x min cashout and 60x WR.

Anyway, with the 3 assumptions listed above and the player just meeting the 30x WR who should fare better the casino or the player.

 

[2young2care]

I'm glad Jason told me what he did and he was completely upfront about it. Whether we think the policy is unreasonable or not, we are now able to form our own opinion and make our decisions to play at Rival based upon his disclosure. Until now, we have not had that courtesy and I appreciate that he extended it to us.

 

[Casinomeister]

I'm glad Jason told me what he did and he was completely upfront about it. Whether we think the policy is unreasonable or not, we are now able to form our own opinion and make our decisions to play at Rival based upon his disclosure. Until now, we have not had that courtesy and I appreciate that he extended it to us.

Quick question: did you only play with bonuses or did you just use these occasionally?

 

[KasinoKing]

So now you all know the rules. Wager at least 130% of your D+B after meeting WR and you'll live happily ever after in Rival BonusLand.

I can hardly believe what Jason wrote!
You can not possibly be a bonus abuser if you meet the stipulated WR (in accordance with all their terms) & cash out.
All you can be is very lucky in that particular instance.
So what are the casinos saying - get lucky & get lost!

Once again we have a casino policy based on (sorry I have to say this) ignorance of the simplest of mathamatics... the mathematics which gives these bonuses a house edge making them just the same as playing any other casino game without a bonus:-

Okay, assumptions:

1/ 100% cashable slots bonus with 30x WR.

2/ RTP at 95% on average

3/ No min cashout.

Anyway, with the 3 assumptions listed above and the player just meeting the 30x WR who should fare better the casino or the player.

Lets say a $100 deposit + $100 bonus = start with $200
WR (Bx30)= 3,000
3,000 x 95% return = a loss of $150
Therefore on average the player will lose all the bonus and $50 of his deposit.

What will he do then? Cash out?
I very much doubt it - he is far more likely to play on & try to win his $50 back. Odds are he wont succeed & the casino gets to keep the whole deposit.

Of course I agree the casinos have the right to 'bonus ban' anyone they see fit (after paying them of course), but calling it 'bonus abuse' is totally absurd.
Banning people from bonuses like this is also extremely ignorant & blinkered IMO; players who win & cash out are far more likely to come back & deposit again, giving the casino the chance to win their losses back. Ban them & they'll never play again & the casinos will never get their money back!

My 2c.

 

[s3rp]

Hi there,

me happend the same as 2young.

Paradise was my first Rival OC i ever played and my first OC i ever played.

So i used the welcome bonus and i am playing 3 days and then i met the wagering requirements. My deposit was $100. There was 1x min Cashout and no max. cashout.

Shorty before i have met the wagering req. i got a "Monster" in freespins @Scary Rich. This round ended with approx. $ 1250.

I withrew $ 1800 without any problems. After that i played serveral times without using a bonus and i got banned from any bonusses.

greetz s3rp

 

[Mousey]

I think most of us 'old timers' have known that the majority of casinos have this same or similar 'secret' rule about playing past your WR....

But the casinos have to see it from the players side, too. If WR are not really 30x B+D (or whatever) then that is a lie -- or at least deceit... And we become bonus abusers for accepting and playing bonuses offered BY the casino and playing by THEIR terms. **sigh**

I can play elsewhere... and I usually lose, bonus or no bonus ...

I just hate it that we're held to T&C that aren't there. (And this applies to any casino with 'secret' WR, not just Rivals.)

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sadly, the explanation is inconsistent with the situation.

IF the bonuses offered were +EV if wagered to the exact letter of the WR, and such bonuses were "unlimited", then the explanation offered is a valid one.

This is not the case however, the stated "abuse" strategy is an overall winner for the CASINO, so they should be ENCOURAGING this kind of play, offering yet another bonus to get yet another deposit that might well have ended up with a competitor (where it most certainly WILL end up after a player has been bonus banned).

It gets even weirder

Next night, I log on to the casino and begin to play. Hey, wait a minute. I can't choose a .10 coin size! The highest I can choose is a .05. OK, that's weird, but I'll go ahead and play a little. I played a few games and then noticed that my comp points had not increased at all since I logged into the casino. Hey, that's weird too!

This is irrelevant if the "abuse" is merely cashing out on the dot after meeting WR. THIS action is inconsistent with the explanation given by Jason.

As to the 130% rule, why bother have the T & C set at only 70% of what you REALLY expect the player to wager. Raise the WR such that the danger of -EV play for the casino vanishes.

Is the reason they DON'T do this because they are DELIBERATELY setting out to MISLEAD players with terms that are NOT the REAL ones, and because were players aware of the REAL rules, they might play elsewhere.

This is a deception, and should not be tolerated. The casinos must make available the CORRECT rules. The fact that Rival have been clinging on to keeping this SECRET is most damning of Rival indeed.

While the CM stance is that there is no obligation on casinos to offer bonuses, there is however, and obligations on them to TELL THE TRUTH in their terms and conditions, so that players are FULLY AWARE of the rules BEFORE they give their MONEY to the casinos.

WHY THE BLOODY HELL do these Rival casinos STILL ALLOW BONUSES AT EVERY SINGLE CASINO IN THE GROUP. Many casinos have a far more honest approach, and stipulate that bonuses are only available to ONE of the accounts a player has in an entire group - this would get rid of problems where a single player consecutively "abuses" a 250% offer at all the Rival casinos on their desktop.

 

[zebedy]

where ever i play nowadays (which is rare) i always like to take a bonus as it does extend playing time and so i get more enjoyment, i noticed that at most rivals the bonuses i have recieved are few and far between or come with absurd WR, 50x on a 15-20% bonus ect,

if they want to do that then its fine with me, all it means is that ill deposit and play elsewhere, so there not going to make any money from me,

IMO banning people from bonuses and saying there bonus abusers even after following all the WR and T&Cs tells me im not a valued customer at there casino, so they lose me as a customer,
wheres the business logic in that

 

[1819]

I'm glad Jason told me what he did and he was completely upfront about it. Whether we think the policy is unreasonable or not, we are now able to form our own opinion and make our decisions to play at Rival based upon his disclosure. Until now, we have not had that courtesy and I appreciate that he extended it to us.

our own opinion should be not to deposit one more dime in any rival casino. i do not use bonus' but will not deposit one more cent until this b.s. is put in writing on the t&c's page. that is classic rogue behavior. their definition of bonus abuse is just an opinion of what they think is fair. that's insane. if what jason said is true then it should be in writing on the casino sites. any and all rival reps, who read this thread, should comment and do what they can to fix this problem. the classic "software is designed that way" is not an acceptable excuse. i am never surprised by casino tactics and i'm sure this is a very common practice but i am surprised it came from this group. shame on you rival and you have lost a customer........

 

[2young2care]

Sadly, the explanation is inconsistent with the situation.

IF the bonuses offered were +EV if wagered to the exact letter of the WR, and such bonuses were "unlimited", then the explanation offered is a valid one.

This is not the case however, the stated "abuse" strategy is an overall winner for the CASINO, so they should be ENCOURAGING this kind of play, offering yet another bonus to get yet another deposit that might well have ended up with a competitor (where it most certainly WILL end up after a player has been bonus banned).

It gets even weirder



This is irrelevant if the "abuse" is merely cashing out on the dot after meeting WR. THIS action is inconsistent with the explanation given by Jason.

As to the 130% rule, why bother have the T & C set at only 70% of what you REALLY expect the player to wager. Raise the WR such that the danger of -EV play for the casino vanishes.

Is the reason they DON'T do this because they are DELIBERATELY setting out to MISLEAD players with terms that are NOT the REAL ones, and because were players aware of the REAL rules, they might play elsewhere.

This is a deception, and should not be tolerated. The casinos must make available the CORRECT rules. The fact that Rival have been clinging on to keeping this SECRET is most damning of Rival indeed.

While the CM stance is that there is no obligation on casinos to offer bonuses, there is however, and obligations on them to TELL THE TRUTH in their terms and conditions, so that players are FULLY AWARE of the rules BEFORE they give their MONEY to the casinos.

WHY THE BLOODY HELL do these Rival casinos STILL ALLOW BONUSES AT EVERY SINGLE CASINO IN THE GROUP. Many casinos have a far more honest approach, and stipulate that bonuses are only available to ONE of the accounts a player has in an entire group - this would get rid of problems where a single player consecutively "abuses" a 250% offer at all the Rival casinos on their desktop.

VWM, I did ask Jason why my coin size was limited and comp points frozen during my play. If these actions are part of being bonus banned and I was bonus banned because of my previous cashouts, WHY was I offered this 250% bonus and able to claim it in the first place? I had not finished my WR for this bonus, nor had I made any attempt to cash out yet. Jason didn't address that particular inquiry I had made, but he did make it clear that if I choose to play at Paradise 8 in the future that I will not receive comp points and my coin size will be limited. I chalked it up to winning so much from a $25 deposit.

I posted this information so members can make a truly informed decision about whether they want to continue to accept bonuses from Rival since there is more to these bonuses than meets the eye. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[chuchu59]

Quick question: did you only play with bonuses or did you just use these occasionally?

Dont know whether 2young2care only played with bonuses or occasionally so but I claimed most bonuses I thought were good deals and also deposited a lot without bonuses. I was told by someone who has some connections with Rival that I could have been flagged for bonus abuse because I just played the bare minimum (ie just meeting WRs) when claiming bonuses. Others might not have been flagged because they played more. Little did I know that this means playing 130% more.

So even if you continue to deposit many times without taking bonuses this doesnt change their stance one bit. From experience, other casinos that I patronised in the past would direct these accusations ie 'bonus abuser' only at those who hit and run with a bonus but not at repeat customers though Rival does seem to think otherwise.

 

[2young2care]

Quick question: did you only play with bonuses or did you just use these occasionally?

Bryan, I've gone back through my history at Paradise 8 and have a short one. I have cashed out 3 times in the past, so I know these were bonus plays. I have a few other deposits there which probably were made with bonuses. I know I have played at a few other Rivals without bonuses, but I doubt that I have at this particular one. As Mousey said above, the old-timers know these "unspoken" rules. I did not.

I use bonuses.... ALOT. I follow the rules connected with these bonuses and never whine when I lose... ALOT. I am not whining now. Rival is perfectly within their rights to not offer bonuses to me. My only wish is that had I known of these rules beforehand, I would have adhered to them or just not accepted the bonus. So I made this post so that other members who have had the same thing happen to them would now know why. And other members who haven't had it happen to them yet can take steps proactively to avoid being the next person to be bonus banned.

 

[Westland Bowl]

..........Shorty before i have met the wagering req. i got a "Monster" in freespins @Scary Rich. This round ended with approx. $ 1250.

I withrew $ 1800 without any problems. After that i played serveral times without using a bonus and i got banned from any bonusses.

greetz s3rp

It is the usual policy of online casinos to not give anymore bonuses to those who've cashed out more than their deposit + bonus the last time. So, in effect, yes, you were banned from getting anymore bonuses.

 

[EasyRhino]

2young2care, where did you get the 130% figure from?

 

[KasinoKing]

2young2care, where did you get the 130% figure from?

From Jason (the casino rep) - look in the very first post in this thread...

KK

 

[2young2care]

Easy Rhino, here is the PM from Jason that states the 130%:

Thanks for your understanding.

The reason accounts get bonus banned has nothing do to with the size of a win in relation to deposits but how close to the wagering requirements a player cashes out. If a player just barely meets the wagering requirements (within 130%) once then cashes out it might raise a flag. If it happens another couple times the account will lose bonus eligibility.

In your case all three times that you met wagering requirements you cashed out, on average, within 10% over the wagering requirement, which usually indicates abusive behavior.

I don't assume to know whether this was intentional or not but either way, at least you understand why your account is not allowed bonuses.

As far as coin sizes and comp points. Accounts which as labeled as "potential bonus abusers" don't receive comp points nor are they allowed large bets.

If you do wish to keep playing without bonuses I can look at having your account changed from "potential bonus abuser" so that at least you can still gain comp points and wager larger hands.

Let me know,

Jason

 

[zebedy]

i think its wrong what they are doing but one thing in there favour is
they "are" paying your cashins first and then banning you from bonuses not just paying back your deposits, unlike microgaming, https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...asinos-terms-that-target-play-patterns.27064/

fair play to them for doing that