Roguish Rich Reels: Policy blunder, and refuses permanent exclusion.

[3mptyseat]

Hi guys! I have had an issue this weekend with a casino group that I have long been a gold vip at. The Villento Brands casino Rich Reels was for many months now my favorite casino and though I have had some issues of late over their bold face untruths regarding the auditing and seal approval by eCogra of their sites, I have always enjoyed myself there, and until now, had no cause to leave.

But on Friday, I made a deposit, and then another, and while both deposits where debited from my account, neither was ever credited to my players account. Now today I provided sufficent proof that the charges were indeed 'posted' off of my account. And while I maintained all along that in such a situation, a player who has deposited over $25k since Sept 1 2010 deserved to have the small deposits of $34 and $20 manually added to the account, they cited policy and said it was an impossibility.

For more on this issue, here is a link to the thread I started on Friday after the muffed deposits... http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/america-beautiful/42654-beware-cc-debit-card-deposits-villento-brands.html#post413055

This morning they also said, while they have reiceived payment for the two charges, they are crediting both charges back to my debit card, wtf? I had asserted that I felt tying up my money, however petty the amounts, for this long was not in good faith and I was going to close my accounts. I have done so this morning and attempted to exclude myself permanently from their sites.

And that attempt at permanent exclusion is what leads to this thread: Please read the chat I just finished with their CSR,

Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Rainer'
Rainer: Hi dustin, welcome to our live help facility. How may I assist you today?
dustin: are you the supervisor on duty at the moment Rainer my good fellow?
Rainer: No, but I will be able to assist you with your query.
dustin: no query today Rainer, I want my Rich Reels account closed and I want to be excluded from Villento Brand products in perpetuity.
Rainer: May I ask the reason behind your decision?
dustin: I have endured a quite ridiculous weekend with ur payment processor charging my acct and then not crediting the funds to my rich reels acct, and I am a gold vip, who has lost 25k here in 5 months. For you guys to not manually credit the account after I proved the charges was a huge "Fuck YOU!" and it shows that u guys have no interest in customer service. This blunder has left my hands tied. As much as I have enjoyed ur services, I have reasonable guidelines and principles that will keep me from ever supporting this company again.
dustin: The only reason a casino makes money, and keeps its lights on is bc of CLIENTS. CLIENTS stick around bc of trust, You guys have not shown u understand this concept, and I don't trust u anymore
Rainer: We are unable to manually credit the deposits as all time out deposits are refunded to the respective Cards with which the deposit was made
dustin: OK< then there we are, at diametric opposition over poiicy, close the account and exclude me forever from Villento Brand products
dustin: policy*
Rainer: There was an issue with the processor over the weekend and this has since been resolved
dustin: I understand, close the account and exclude me forever from Villento Brand products
Rainer: As you wish Dustin
Rainer: The account has been closed.
dustin: forever, if I come back and try to reopen the account, and I am allowed to, I will go to the KGC?
Rainer: If you do change your mind it can be re-opened.
dustin: okay, this should suffice as evidence that your group does not deserve the license you hold, thanks a lot, I wish your group continued success and can only hope one day you see the error in ur policy, ur ethos, and through such epiphany; u change ur ways
dustin: perm. exclusion is a hallmark of any casino worthy of licensing, I am sorry ur business model does not include that, good day.

CM, Max,; At ur request, I can substantiate my claims here and I also have some damning evidence of them making claims that their level 11 software (US facing) is audited and sealed by eCogra. Moreover, I have a statement from Tex Rees @ eCogra suggesting that 'no level 11 software is audited or approved by,' eCogra.

I Think they might deserve a trip to rogue section. At least their US facing sites do IMHO. Either way, I felt the punters out there deserved to know...

Good Luck Guys.

 

[Gret]

...$54 tied up for two days?

Haven't they given you some "free money" over the time you played there?

 

[CURTSONLYLOVE10]

i had the same problem u had on friday....went to deposit 21.00 money taken off cc but not put in my account...sent support the statement stating that the money was indeed taken off....they said it would be fixed on monday when eprocessing is back up...ok a little upset becasue i wanted to play...before i could express that to cs they said hold for a 35.00 bonus in ur account...sure put a smile on my face.....more than i was going to deposit....


now i just have to hope that the 21.00 and the .45 they charge for the transaction is put back on my card today...

 

[3mptyseat]

...$54 tied up for two days?

Haven't they given you some "free money" over the time you played there?

IMO, that is not the point, and three days would be more accurate. Plus the 3-5 days until it hits my card that I will be waiting. SO, while I understand that insignificance of 6-8 days and of $54, I fail to see ur point?

I would hate to assume anything, but I think ur implying that $54 is not very much money. If so, I agree, and that is the point I have in the thread linked above. $28k deposited in 5 months between both sites of theirs and they are gonna hold up $54 bux and the hundreds more I would have deposited after that this past weekend if I still trusted them? Seems like brilliant player relations to me. Also seems like an incredible policy given that deposits are the thing they are after. And if every other weekend for the past 5 months was any kind of indicator, that $54 bux was the cherry on the sundae... But that is not the topic of this thread.

The point of this thread is that they are unwilling to close my account and exclude me, and moreover, they have been making bogus auditing claims!

 

[Brooklyn]

Gret, Doesn't matter if it was a $1, if they took it from his card, put the money in his account. Simple enough, yes? This player was a VIP, played thousands of dollars in a few months and the casino chose to lose that player over $54? Free money or no free money it's ridiculous.

Like I said in the other thread; if the situation was turned around and someone deposited money, it went into thier account, but RR didn't get the money from the processor, do you think they would be so patient? Me thinks not.

The self exclusion is a whole different monster. Promblem gamblers (not saying you 3mpty) need to have a way to close accounts; never to be reopened. What if the OP was a problem gambler, would they tell him "If you do change your mind it can be re-opened."?

That is definitely rogue like behavior.

 

[petro]

Rainer: May I ask the reason behind your decision?
They always ask me this.
I have become accustomed to not telling them, just saying; I don't think it is polite to say.
I wouldn't be closing my account anyway unless a resolution is impossible.

 

[Gret]

IMO, that is not the point, and three days would be more accurate. Plus the 3-5 days until it hits my card that I will be waiting. SO, while I understand that insignificance of 6-8 days and of $54, I fail to see ur point?

OK...I'm a very relaxed and mellow person :sob:and would have given them the time to make it right about the deposit. The amount of play that you gave them was substantial and I wouldn't want to lose that goodwill, if there was any.

Don't know jack about the audit and closing the account issues.

Lets go ahead and rip a new one and show 'em who's boss!

 

[aceking123]

dustin: perm. exclusion is a hallmark of any casino worthy of licensing, I am sorry ur business model does not include that, good day.
hi,
sorry to say no online casino seems to have this function at all ask 32red ! you can indeed get this at bricks & mortar casinos without any problems at all , they will ensure that you can never walk through there casino or any other in there group ( uk ), i wouldnt be surprised if 3dice was the only casino to where you could indeed ask then for a life time ban & they would uphold it , casinos see £ signs & $ signs most casinos are only interested in this , not all of them ,but most , it shows in the other thread which ( nate ) had started , about how much bc is there for problem gamblers & so much more. standard should be if any player at any time asks for a total ban from there chain in casinos most be upheld . under no circumstances should any CASINO let the player reopen a account, for whatever reason this way they shall not be held responisble for any problems arising from that player , its simple to most people , just not to casinos , because perhaps theyre thinking more funds into there accounts ,

 

[3mptyseat]

OK...I'm a very relaxed and mellow person :sob:and would have given them the time to make it right about the deposit. The amount of play that you gave them was substantial and I wouldn't want to lose that goodwill, if there was any.

Don't know jack about the audit and closing the account issues.

Lets go ahead and rip a new one and show 'em who's boss!

I dont want to rip anyone a new one for the sake of the ripping. I just feel betrayed by their attitude. I also feel that any dishonesty about auditing is a huge red flag for players, and since I stumbled upon their dishonesty in this regard, I felt a certain responsibility to bring it to the publics attention. I have no reason to believe that the software is not random, but I do have some evidence that they will lie about the auditing that was never preformed on the level 11 software. Now that may lead people to assume their software lacks integrity, but I would only go as far as to say that it shows people running the site lack integrity. And for me thats saying too much for my continued support.

There is another thread here somewhere by a member asking if anyone has had any luck at the Level 11 U.S. facing 'Royal Vegas' site. I know that they are a casino with a commitment to integrity. I would go as far as to say that if indeed their Level 11 software is the same as Villentos, then there probably is no cause for concern about playing on the U.S. facing platform offered by Villento Brands. But it begs the question; "Why the hell are they lying about their auditing?"

I am not asking anyone to stop playing at Villento or Rich Reels, and as I stated, my 'new one' ripping agenda is non-existent. But, as per its purpose in the mission statement, CM is a place for info sharing. Here is that mission statement: http://www.casinomeister.com/philosophy.php

My favorite part is the 'trust is spawned by information' part. It's a truism in my book. And when I got more information, I stopped trusting Rich Reels and Villento. And this remains my point.

 

[Mousey]

Moreover, I have a statement from Tex Rees @ eCogra suggesting that 'no level 11 software is audited or approved by,' eCogra.

This is a very important point...

since MG chopped off a bit of its software and either sold it or leased it out or whatever (I still do not understand exactly what occurred or why) the U.S. only facing software is NOT accredited here, NOT eCogra certified... no one is looking after the mutated, U.S. only, former MG, hen house in other words.

 

[BoyleCasino.com]

dustin: perm. exclusion is a hallmark of any casino worthy of licensing, I am sorry ur business model does not include that, good day.
hi,
sorry to say no online casino seems to have this function at all ask 32red ! you can indeed get this at bricks & mortar casinos without any problems at all , they will ensure that you can never walk through there casino or any other in there group ( uk ), i wouldnt be surprised if 3dice was the only casino to where you could indeed ask then for a life time ban & they would uphold it , casinos see £ signs & $ signs most casinos are only interested in this , not all of them ,but most , it shows in the other thread which ( nate ) had started , about how much bc is there for problem gamblers & so much more. standard should be if any player at any time asks for a total ban from there chain in casinos most be upheld . under no circumstances should any CASINO let the player reopen a account, for whatever reason this way they shall not be held responisble for any problems arising from that player , its simple to most people , just not to casinos , because perhaps theyre thinking more funds into there accounts ,

This post concerns me a little... Any operator licensed by a credible jurisdiction must provide responsible gambling facilities including permanent self exclusion as part of their licensing requirements. If any operator refuses to exclude your account on request I would recommend contacting the jurisdiction by whom they're licensed.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This post concerns me a little... Any operator licensed by a credible jurisdiction must provide responsible gambling facilities including permanent self exclusion as part of their licensing requirements. If any operator refuses to exclude your account on request I would recommend contacting the jurisdiction by whom they're licensed.

I see you have a great sense of humour there

As Bryan said about some jurisdictions, "might as well complain to the mailman".

Even if they replied, they would say that no breach has ocurred until they actually DO allow a problem gambler back, and what tends to happen is that they only notice when the returning problem gambler WINS, and they react by blaming THEM for giving in to temptation, and confiscate their winnings and return their deposit on the grounds that their play was invalid because they had asked for an exclusion in the past.
This has happened to quite a few CM players, who have gone back after closing accounts, been able to play and LOSE again, but have WINNINGS confiscated when verification checks reveal that they are on the exclusion database.
WINNING problem gamblers get their money back, but those who LOSE are able to carry on digging themselves even DEEPER into the mess.

 

[aceking123]

This post concerns me a little... Any operator licensed by a credible jurisdiction must provide responsible gambling facilities including permanent self exclusion as part of their licensing requirements. If any operator refuses to exclude your account on request I would recommend contacting the jurisdiction by whom they're licensed.

hi its a taboo subject for casinos , my point only being that if a player asks for a life time ban or states that theyve had a gambling problem ,a casino should never reopen a account period .this player/member should be blocked forever on all of there sites/ groups.

 

[3mptyseat]

This is a very important point...

since MG chopped off a bit of its software and either sold it or leased it out or whatever (I still do not understand exactly what occurred or why) the U.S. only facing software is NOT accredited here, NOT eCogra certified... no one is looking after the mutated, U.S. only, former MG, hen house in other words.

And yet, many of the US facing sites are linked to accredited and audited sites and share the same name...

Even if they replied, they would say that no breach has ocurred until they actually DO allow a problem gambler back,

Well, I checked a day later to see if they would let me back. U may recall, the CSR I dealt with the other day had said they would unless I requested self exclusion bc of a gambling problem, but I thought maybe there was a chance that someone at this company would say, 'we can't let someone wishing to be excluded back...', alas; they have no such qualms.

And before I submit that proof, I just want to opine on the terms of self exclusion and how they might play out.

Some say self exclusion is a pipe dream plausible only in an ideal world bc many casinos have the "c.r.e.a.m." motto.

A few people seem to stand with the school of thought that says the player must declare themselves a "problem gambler" or else the exclusion is merely ceremonial and can be reversed at any time.

The other side seems to think that anyone asking for exclusion should be held to that request. Furthermore, any casino not honoring that request rigidly is not only doing the gambler a disservice, but they also should be held in violation of their licensing...

Well, I side with the last of these positions if for no other reason than this: The first scenario, which allows the self-excluded player back if 'problem gambling' was not cited in the original exclusion request seems to ignore the fact that the player may very well be a problem gambler, but deep in the bowels of an addiction, hence incapable of admitting to themselves let alone a casino the reality of their situation...

I don't feel like a player should have to be (a) A problem gambler to exclude themselves. Nor (b) Past step 1 in the 12 step program to exclude themselves if they are a problem gambler. Anyway, here is some recent email correspondence I had with a CSR @ RR:

 

[vinylweatherman]

The problem is that sometimes a casino MISTAKENLY assumes a player has a "problem" just because they have asked to no longer receive emails, or close an account.

This is why there needs to be a way for players who want to express their dissatisfaction with a casino, but who are NOT "problem gamblers", to make their views felt. Taking one's custom elsewhere is usually the ONLY thing that makes a business sit up & take notice that the dire service they have been offering has finally started to drive their customers away. Simply moaning to lowly CS staff NEVER makes management aware of the problem, so nothing EVER goes "on record".

How often have players contacted CS to be told "you are the first person to report this issue", yet the "issue" is one that has been going on for AGES, and been the result of numerous complaints by other players, even numerous forum threads.
This shows that DESPITE all the complaints, they were ALL "forwarded to the waste paper basket" for further action, and this was probably because the issues were NOT actually driving customers away.

As soon as you ask to be put through to "account closures", service standards step UP several gears, and you often end up being put through to "customer retention", where all those things that you were told were "no-can-do" suddenly become "YES-can-do" if you stay with us.

What is needed are short term exclusions that WORK, so if a player chooses 6 months, he is stuck with it. If a player CONFIRMS they want it PERMANENT, they are stuck with that too. If a player merely wants to close their account as a protest, and don't specify any time span, they are given the minimum on offer, which should certainly be MORE that just a couple of days. The self exclusion options should be made clear to the player, and it should also be made clear that whatever option they choose, they are going to be stuck with.

All "gambling problem" related exclusions should be for LIFE, as it is recognised that the only "cure" is permanent abstinence, the same as with any other addiction.

 

[BBKPoker]

Seems like:

1.) Any credible site should permanently exclude a member on request.

2.) Regardless of whether you personally think the amount the OP is upset by is small, or the timeframe reasonable, if the OP has really lost 25k as he claims to have within 5 months with them, whatever manager is running the casino is an absolute idiot for letting him leave over $54, and OP should probably switch to a casino that is run with some competence and actual intelligent customer service rather than mechanical responses.