Revamping the Accredited Section

[Casinomeister]

Yes, it's about time. I'm in the process of revamping the Accredited section and I'm looking for members' input.

At the moment there are these categories:

UK White Listed Y/N
Publicly Traded Y/N
US Accepted Y/N
3rd Party Audit Y/N
Poker Y/N
Live Games Y/N
Withdrawal Limitations Y/N and listed if yes
Special Notes - whatever

I'm thinking that there should be more. As for publicly traded, perhaps a point of contact should be listed there as well. But after the Purple Lounge fiasco it's proving that just because one is publicly traded, it doesn't mean diddly squat if the company goes bust.

As for UK white listed, I'm thinking of renaming this to "Licensing info" since Malta is UK whitelisted (probably the worst licensing jurisdiction in the short history of online gaming) and Kahnawake is not UK white listed, but is probably the most efficient and accessible. (The UK WL section was added when it was a big deal a couple of years back for Brits and anyone advertising in view of UK residents).

Anyway, now is your chance to voice a suggestion. Please don't suggest current bonuses etc. or anything that would be too laborious to maintain. Thanks!

 

[Seventh777]

Keep all the categories imho, the more advice the better . Is flushing reverse withdrawals covered in this option `Withdrawal Limitations`, if not this could be added.

Cheers.

Roy.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A 'payout time' and 'processes payments over weekends/holidays' category would be a good addition IMO.

These two variables can make the difference between a player getting paid in 12 hours (or less!) or 5 days (and more!), and would really start to set apart those casinos who go the extra mile to pay the player promptly.

EDIT - What Seventh said about flushing, and default pending period. They're all part and parcel of the same thing really, how long does it take the player to get paid?

 

[Casinomeister]

A 'payout time' and 'processes payments over weekends/holidays' category would be a good addition IMO.

These two variables can make the difference between a player getting paid in 12 hours (or less!) or 5 days (and more!), and would really start to set apart those casinos who go the extra mile to pay the player promptly.

EDIT - What Seventh said about flushing, and default pending period. They're all part and parcel of the same thing really, how long does it take the player to get paid?

The problem with payout times is that these can change as often as the wind. Keeping that updated would be a daily task.

Edited to add: But then again, I could hold operators responsible to keep the listing updated. Something to think about.

 

[MaryJean]

A BIG NO TO THE CASINOS FOR CAPS ON WITHDRAWALS

Yes, it's about time. I'm in the process of revamping the Accredited section and I'm looking for members' input.

At the moment there are these categories:

UK White Listed Y/N
Publicly Traded Y/N
US Accepted Y/N
3rd Party Audit Y/N
Poker Y/N
Live Games Y/N
Withdrawal Limitations Y/N and listed if yes
Special Notes - whatever

I'm thinking that there should be more. As for publicly traded, perhaps a point of contact should be listed there as well. But after the Purple Lounge fiasco it's proving that just because one is publicly traded, it doesn't mean diddly squat if the company goes bust.

As for UK white listed, I'm thinking of renaming this to "Licensing info" since Malta is UK whitelisted (probably the worst licensing jurisdiction in the short history of online gaming) and Kahnawake is not UK white listed, but is probably the most efficient and accessible. (The UK WL section was added when it was a big deal a couple of years back for Brits and anyone advertising in view of UK residents).

Anyway, now is your chance to voice a suggestion. Please don't suggest current bonuses etc. or anything that would be too laborious to maintain. Thanks!

One of the most irritating things about "free" money is not only the huge "quota" put on the play but then a small cap put on the withdrawal to boot!

This should be a blackmark.

Especially for casinos with Random Jackpots that could go off any time---free money or not.

MaryJean

 

[Nate]

The problem with payout times is that these can change as often as the wind. Keeping that updated would be a daily task.

Edited to add: But then again, I could hold operators responsible to keep the listing updated. Something to think about.

True - however some are not due to processor delays and are standard delays. This is very important IMPO. Some Casino groups have a mandatory pending period (48 hours - Jackpot Capital) and others do not pay over weekends (Club World / Jackpot Capital) - I think its important for a player to know that IF they hit the cashout button on Friday evening, that their withdrawal will only be processed on Wednesday.

Nate

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The problem with payout times is that these can change as often as the wind. Keeping that updated would be a daily task.

Edited to add: But then again, I could hold operators responsible to keep the listing updated. Something to think about.

I reckon that's entirely the way to go about it Bryan, ask the operators to volunteer the information themselves when they change anything with regards to payout times and/or pending periods and/or processing periods, and perhaps recruit some help from the CM membership to process that information? (I'd certainly be up for it.)

Why not just make it a condition of being accredited? As an operator, if you change any of the above, you need to inform CM about it.

Speaking personally as a player, my major bugbear is the MASSIVE variation in payment times from one casino to another, all of which are accredited and yet where some really do look after their players, others appear to think nothing of leaving a withdrawal sat pending for days before they even start to process it.

Going one step beyond that, an 'Accredited A list' would make sense, whereby the very best casinos get extra recognition for their conduct towards players.

Without naming names, I honestly don't think some casinos on the accredited list should be part of the same list as the best casinos on that list - and the best should get that extra recognition IMO.

 

[Simmo!]

Pending times, cashout times, weekend payouts (etc) do require constant checking and are almost impossible to keep 100% accurate, not least because half the time the staff at the casinos don't even know and in some cases they claim one thing when another thing happens altogether - that happens a lot...trust me, the only way you can be sure it's accurate is by playing. Even then, some casinos have different criteria for different players.

What you could do is an occasional update or something and make it clear it can change. I maintain this type of data and I have developed an aggregation system for disseminating the data over a network of websites (see how the SJ panels map to the AZOC 'grids' below) so we could have a chat some time if you give me a call mate.

 

[LondonDJ]

Not sure if it's workable/practical but would "Established in XXXX/in business since XXXX date" be possible? I quite like to know how long a casino has been going. (I know this info is available for some casinos already but it might be useful to have it for all of them).

thanks!

 

[Nifty29]

One of the most irritating things about "free" money is not only the huge "quota" put on the play but then a small cap put on the withdrawal to boot!

This should be a blackmark.

Especially for casinos with Random Jackpots that could go off any time---free money or not.

MaryJean

Respectfully, I don't think this is relevant to accreditation at all.

Max cashouts are the only thing keeping the whole idea of freebies alive. If it became a requirement of accreditation, I would be almost certain that such casinos would stop giving freebies to all but high rollers.

The misconception from many players is that freebies are a right and should provide players who don't deposit often a chance to make a profit. In fact, they are a privilege and are given to encourage players to deposit and/or to reward for financial loyalty.

I personally have absolutely no issue with max cashouts on free chips, however such limits on deposit bonuses is unacceptable to me.

 

[max1mike]

or. it could be real simple. you want to be accredited?

be like 32red.

(its gonna suck to be every shady, scamming, slow paying US facing casino the day that we here in the US can play at 32 red again)

 

[Silencio]

Pending times, cashout times, weekend payouts (etc) do require constant checking and are almost impossible to keep 100% accurate, not least because half the time the staff at the casinos don't even know and in some cases they claim one thing when another thing happens altogether - that happens a lot...trust me, the only way you can be sure it's accurate is by playing. Even then, some casinos have different criteria for different players.

What you could do is an occasional update or something and make it clear it can change. I maintain this type of data and I have developed an aggregation system for disseminating the data over a network of websites (see how the SJ panels map to the AZOC 'grids' below) so we could have a chat some time if you give me a call mate.

Yeah.. it's truly amazing how few managers know the details of their brand/bonuses.. think I can count them on one hand (at least the ones who truly know everything without having to look it up). Had to wait 8 days on someone to tell me what the restricted regions / wagering requirement / max cashout was for a no deposit bonus. When I didn't get a response after 8 days I asked again, and he told me what the minimum deposit was, and nothing else besides that (facepalm). Had to count to 100 before responding.

OT: Support maybe?
I remember a certain casino which was accredited for a short period, which was known for having lousy support, in this case the live chat being unavailable was quite common, plus they were like insurance salesmen when it came down to bonuses. push push push was their motto I think. But how they act towards players probably falls in the category of impossible to check, like current bonuses.

 

[chuchu59]

Max cashouts on freebies are ok but only for new players who fish for them and claim everything available to them without risking a cent. However, I do hope that freebies to loyal players either as cashback or rewards should have no max caqshout to differentiate themselves from those who contribute nothing. Actually, most of the available software have been tried by players and there is no real need to entice them to join with freebies. I venture to say many who take every free chip available have no intention to become long-term players anyway.

One thing to note however and that is with a max cashout the rtp is enshrined in the payout and maxing it would lead to a drop in the rtp so the published rtp figures do not count for much. This will lead to lower payouts for loyal players while freebie hunters will have their payouts restricted and all will be in favour of the casino. Come to think of it maybe that's why casinos still offer freebieswith max cashout.

 

[Nifty29]

I reckon that's entirely the way to go about it Bryan, ask the operators to volunteer the information themselves when they change anything with regards to payout times and/or pending periods and/or processing periods, and perhaps recruit some help from the CM membership to process that information? (I'd certainly be up for it.)

Why not just make it a condition of being accredited? As an operator, if you change any of the above, you need to inform CM about it.

Speaking personally as a player, my major bugbear is the MASSIVE variation in payment times from one casino to another, all of which are accredited and yet where some really do look after their players, others appear to think nothing of leaving a withdrawal sat pending for days before they even start to process it.

Going one step beyond that, an 'Accredited A list' would make sense, whereby the very best casinos get extra recognition for their conduct towards players.

Without naming names, I honestly don't think some casinos on the accredited list should be part of the same list as the best casinos on that list - and the best should get that extra recognition IMO.

I did suggest this some time ago e.g accredited gold/silver/bronze etc. It would be based on member ratings and feedback, and other factors like PABs and rep participation etc....with certain restrictions to stop idiot fraudsters and whiners skewing the results.

Bryans view at the time was that this was achieved via the CM annual awards, where the best performers were recognized. I'm not sure if that view has changed, but i think he did have a point.

Great minds think alike hey Chops ol' chap

 

[jetset]

I agree that the best of the best should be distinguished as a player guide but also as an incentive to operators, because I'm sure it would make a difference on an influential site like CM. However, I keep recalling Bryan's point earlier in this thread about ease of upkeep, given the limited manpower resources available.

Maybe Simmo's system could make that easier?

Another alternative might be the appointment of someone hard-nosed and clued up like Nifty (if he was agreeable) to oversee that activity on the website as an additional mod?

 

[mattsgame]

I did suggest this some time ago e.g accredited gold/silver/bronze etc. It would be based on member ratings and feedback, and other factors like PABs and rep participation etc....with certain restrictions to stop idiot fraudsters and whiners skewing the results.

Bryans view at the time was that this was achieved via the CM annual awards, where the best performers were recognized. I'm not sure if that view has changed, but i think he did have a point.

Great minds think alike hey Chops ol' chap

Love the idea of a tier system - gold/silver/bronze etc as there quite a difference between the best and the rest. Feedback from players is the best resource any player can have as it is most of the time unbiased.

The annual awards are great but this only happens once a year and in this industry a lot can change in a year (Purple Lounge) is just one example.

Is there any chance a + and - could be added beside each accredited casino that players could use to vote? and only vote once every 6 months or so with a small comment with at least 20 words (roughly) to stop people just BS voting. and people can click to see the votes/comments and make up there own mind.

 

[MaryJean]

Thanks ChuChu--you said it better than I could.

Max cashouts on freebies are ok but only for new players who fish for them and claim everything available to them without risking a cent. However, I do hope that freebies to loyal players either as cashback or rewards should have no max caqshout to differentiate themselves from those who contribute nothing. Actually, most of the available software have been tried by players and there is no real need to entice them to join with freebies. I venture to say many who take every free chip available have no intention to become long-term players anyway.

One thing to note however and that is with a max cashout the rtp is enshrined in the payout and maxing it would lead to a drop in the rtp so the published rtp figures do not count for much. This will lead to lower payouts for loyal players while freebie hunters will have their payouts restricted and all will be in favour of the casino. Come to think of it maybe that's why casinos still offer freebieswith max cashout.

Thanks ChuChu----what really gets to me is when a casino gives you a "Loyalty Bonus"---(meaning that you are a long time player and not a freebie hunter), puts it directly into your account, which forces you to play it if for no other reason than to get it out of your account, but puts not only a playthrough quota on it, but puts a "MaxCashout" on it which puts the player in jeopardy of winning a Random Jackpot and having to give up thousands of dollars for a mere couple of hundred.

MaryJean

 

[Casinomeister]

If there are any Accred Casino reps who'd like to chime in and let me know what they think would be helpful for players to know, please don't be shy.

 

[binary128]

If there are any Accred Casino reps who'd like to chime in and let me know what they think would be helpful for players to know, please don't be shy.

I'm not an accredited casino rep, just a software supplier with strong opinions, and a product that backs up those opinions.

Therefore, I would like to acknowledge the great value and importance of this thread, but will not contribute to it (other than this post).

As with all things of this type, I think that pulling together and organizing the information is as important as, and perhaps is more important than, the information itself.

Chris

 

[parpol]

Yes, it's about time. I'm in the process of revamping the Accredited section and I'm looking for members' input.

Hi CM,

sorry but you do not want to wait with the upgrade of the casino credited CM?

Let me explain:
Although many European markets are evolving (both Italian, Spanish, French, German English and Danish) by adding new constant mess, soon will enter the Italian market the various: 32Red (xxhttp://www.32red.it - Work in progress), all slots, Betsson and Betway, while they are already active paddy power, betclic, Unibet and bwin.

It is already beginning to talk of common markets (AAMS ARJEL and DGOJ - respectively Italy, France and Spain) and hence there could be (example) Bwin for AAMS,and DGOJ ARJEL and Bwin "no Accredited" CM?
No spam: xxhttp://www.assopoker.com/poker-legale/poker-online-italiani-spagnoli-e-francesi-in-un-unico-mercato-11315 (google translator )

Obviously this is my thought, a player who plays for several years in the casino online. I always used the list of accredited CM casino to play (thanks for the work done :notworthy ), but with the advent of the AAMS'm re-evaluating the casino; example of betclic (AAMS license) e and at the same time "no Accredited" CM!

I hope I was clear, google translator.

thanks

 

[parpol]

Another question:

List of accredited CM casino, there will be room for the various groups that are active only in the jurisdiction of a single country?

Type: CM accredited Italian players (or French, Spanish etc.etc.?)
Because there are many casino / poker room and Sportbook very serious: type Betflag etc. etc.

Betflag welcome bonus no deposit € 300 W = 1.8K bank transfer in 36 hours!
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/winner-screenshots.4193/

I put an official list of new licenses that have entered or will enter soon with AAMS license!
xxhttp://agicoscommesse.it/dett-news.php?id_news=112764.

 

[chayton]

I agree about withdrawal times and flushing.

I'm thinking that extra gold stars should be given to the accredited casinos who have reps that actually come here - there are some accredited casinos where the reps haven't logged in for months. And there are others - Mark and everyone else from 32Red (obviously! ), Ben from NordicBet, Elliott from Omni, to name a few - that are really on the ball as far as answering PMs and paying attention to what players are saying.

 

[Casinomeister]

I hope I was clear, google translator.

thanks

Google translator sucks!

But I think I got the gist of it.

bwin was accredited for a short time. But they had no interest in dealing with player and affiliate issues on the site. A requirement for being on the Accredited list is to have a representative in the forum who can answer questions or deal with player issues. Unfortunately, a number of casinos just can't be bothered with this. This is usually the case with large companies (bwin, Betfair, etc.). The fortunate thing is that most of the smaller operations understand the value of public relations. And in most cases one will receive better service (32red, Fortune Lounge, Intertops, CWC, etc.) as opposed to big conglomerates.

 

[rockycatt]

id like to see in real time how many players are playing at the casino's just like the poker rooms do they show active tables and players

i really don't want to be playing a a casino that is only hosting 20 players

 

[vinylweatherman]

How about a sortable list, so that players could select the criteria most important to them, and click on it to get a list sorted from best to worst based on that criteria.

Another idea along these lines, but less work for CM, would be to make the list downloadable as a standard CSV file, with it being up to the player to load it into their favourite spreadsheet and sort away to their heart's content.

Policy on flushing is important, as a no flush policy takes away the choice for the player to determine that they will not reverse under any circumstances, so just wants processing to at least begin, and only suffer the processing delay, rather than this coupled with an additional 48 or 72 hours of absolutely nothing being done. Many casinos don't even use their pending time to deal with documents, they wait the 48/72 hours, and only then tell the player to send documents, which makes the 48 hours or so document verification process consecutive to, rather than concurrent with, the pending period.