Responsible Gambling / Gaming from CS Perspective

MaltesePlayer

Experienced Member
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Jun 21, 2017
Location
Neverland
Hey guys, I'm a new member and have recently noticed a few thread going around discussing RG Issues and how a company should react to them. Seeing that I work as a CS agent in the industry (and have dealt with RG issues solely at one of the companies) and have been taught how to deal with RG Issues, I thought I'd clear a few things up on the CS Side point of view.

1) ALL CS agents are taught to learn to recognise Problem Gamblers and the main causes behind it.
2) ALL CS agents should or at least everywhere I have worked have the discretion to close the accounts for any customer (not via self exclusion but at least game play and transactions) until the situation can be reviewed.
3) ALL CS agents should immediately close or disable any account where a customer has advised the agent through chat or email that they either suffer gambling issues or at any point mention that they want their funds refunded, that they're in a position to lose any material property, social relationships, cause bodily harm to self or others, impact others.
4) ALL CS agents should provide players with the relevant information on who to contact for help.

It's a small start to the thread as currently not in a position to write a larger one but I wanted to post the main points which one should consider when debating or discussing topics related to someone mentioning issues related to problem gambling / self exclusions.

I would like to hear anyone else's comments regarding this and I'll be happy to try to answer anything you ask from a CS point of view on the topic.
 
Last edited:

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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Feb 14, 2007
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Hey guys, I'm a new member and have recently noticed a few thread going around discussing RG Issues and how a company should react to them. Seeing that I work as a CS agent in the industry (and have dealt with RG issues solely at one of the companies) and have been taught how to deal with RG Issues, I thought I'd clear a few things up on the CS Side point of view.

1) ALL CS agents are taught to learn to recognise Problem Gamblers and the main causes behind it.
2) ALL CS agents should or at least everywhere I have worked have the discretion to close the accounts for any customer (not via self exclusion but at least game play and transactions) until the situation can be reviewed.
3) ALL CS agents should immediately close or disable any account where a customer has advised the agent through chat or email that they either suffer gambling issues or at any point mention that they want their funds refunded, that they're in a position to lose any material property, social relationships, cause bodily harm to self or others, impact others.

4) ALL CS agents should provide players with the relevant

It's a small start to the thread as currently not in a position to write a larger one but I wanted to post the main points which one should consider when debating or discussing topics related to someone mentioning issues related to problem gambling / self exclusions.

I would like to hear anyone else's comments regarding this and I'll be happy to try to answer anything you ask from a CS point of view on the topic.

If all Casinos had the INTEGRITY to do such when someone goes ape shit about their losses and gambling, the previous thread would not have existed.

It is simply appaling that some LARGE UK Casinos are allowed to get away with this. Its simply unacceptable and predatory in that they target problem gamblers. I have lost all respect for those who continue to transgress and claim that they are within the interest of the players.

WRT your post - Spot on, however I don't believe many places operate like that. I recall another member here joking after a 20k loss to CS or a rep about how that was money to buy a house and his account was shut immediately at the Betsson Group.

I'm sure there are various stories at several casinos over the years.


Nate
 

MaltesePlayer

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Location
Neverland
Before I get misinterpreted, I would just like to mention an additional thing. You do sometimes get the occasional fake try to get refunds or to try to get something out of the casino but once again, I stress that CS agents should realize the potential risk, and at the first mention of even a fake cry for help, the account should at that point be disabled and raised to the RG team within the casino.

They're experts at this sort of thing and they know how to recognise when its a real cry for help or if its someone looking to get back his money. Also one thing to keep in kind, until a customer contacts the casino through any and if possible all means necessary, any money spent up to that point, is considered fair play for the casino to keep.
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
Before I get misinterpreted, I would just like to mention an additional thing. You do sometimes get the occasional fake try to get refunds or to try to get something out of the casino but once again, I stress that CS agents should realize the potential risk, and at the first mention of even a fake cry for help, the account should at that point be disabled and raised to the RG team within the casino.

They're experts at this sort of thing and they know how to recognise when its a real cry for help or if its someone looking to get back his money. Also one thing to keep in kind, until a customer contacts the casino through any and if possible all means necessary, any money spent up to that point, is considered fair play for the casino to keep.

Exactly what i'm thinking. If you cry that you have a gambling problem, instead of directing someone somewhere to download a form then fax it to you, close the account until such time that the form has been received - Problem solved.

There are a lot of people who will try to take advantage, it's a common thing in the industry. But when a casino literally goes out of their way to ensure it maximizes its profits without locking the account - then i have no sympathy for them.

Nate
 

MaltesePlayer

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Location
Neverland
Exactly what i'm thinking. If you cry that you have a gambling problem, instead of directing someone somewhere to download a form then fax it to you, close the account until such time that the form has been received - Problem solved.

There are a lot of people who will try to take advantage, it's a common thing in the industry. But when a casino literally goes out of their way to ensure it maximizes its profits without locking the account - then i have no sympathy for them.

Nate

Agreed. It's both ways, a casino also needs to be responsible and respect its player base.
 

Deeplay

New World Order
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The biG Eu
There is one way (for the UK anyway ) to stop all the BS of players loosing there shirt and then looking for a SE loophole as we have seen recently on this forum, and to ensure casinos DO have stringent procedures in place to ensure ALL RG regulations are followed.

And it would be as follows. Any person who deposits and then claims they want a refund due to gambling issues, SE that was not honoroed as so on would not get any refund. Basicially the sale is final, with no possiiblty what so ever of claiming a penny back. This would stop people using SE as a way to claim back losses. As they would be no point because the rules would be clear. You deposit and you wont see that money again unless of course you win.

The casinos for there part if it is found that they were in breech of RG rules and it was found say for an example a player was allowed to deposit while on a SE would then be fined the total amount of that players deposits x by say 10 or 20 or even. Up to say a maximum of 100k . That would ensure ALL casinos would do EVERYTHING they could to ensure that they have robust fully compliant RG policies as to not do so would risk exposure of potentially huge fines.

Of course all money generated from the fines would go to helping those affected by problem gambling. So in the end it would be a win win situation for everyone.

Personally paying back a CG his/her deposit does not help. Just makes the situation worse. And CG Can not be trusted. Because of the illness they will lie, cheat and even steal in some cases out of sheer desperation. Same as any addict would.

If such an approach was taken it would in my view be a step in the right direction.
 

lockinlove

Staring into the sun
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Joined
Jan 17, 2014
Location
Canada
There is one way (for the UK anyway ) to stop all the BS of players loosing there shirt and then looking for a SE loophole as we have seen recently on this forum, and to ensure casinos DO have stringent procedures in place to ensure ALL RG regulations are followed.

And it would be as follows. Any person who deposits and then claims they want a refund due to gambling issues, SE that was not honoroed as so on would not get any refund. Basicially the sale is final, with no possiiblty what so ever of claiming a penny back. This would stop people using SE as a way to claim back losses. As they would be no point because the rules would be clear. You deposit and you wont see that money again unless of course you win.

The casinos for there part if it is found that they were in breech of RG rules and it was found say for an example a player was allowed to deposit while on a SE would then be fined the total amount of that players deposits x by say 10 or 20 or even. Up to say a maximum of 100k . That would ensure ALL casinos would do EVERYTHING they could to ensure that they have robust fully compliant RG policies as to not do so would risk exposure of potentially huge fines.

Of course all money generated from the fines would go to helping those affected by problem gambling. So in the end it would be a win win situation for everyone.

Personally paying back a CG his/her deposit does not help. Just makes the situation worse. And CG Can not be trusted. Because of the illness they will lie, cheat and even steal in some cases out of sheer desperation. Same as any addict would.

If such an approach was taken it would in my view be a step in the right direction.

I think players need to do their part too. When they come across a casino that does not have RG in mind, they should not deposit or close accounts.

I closed my fortune lounge accounts because I was busy with some stuff and I dont like my account left open that has a link to large deposits. They said they will close it but all that needs to be done is to ask to re-open it and they will. So whats the point. So I tried saying okay I need a cool off from gambling, to try and get them to lock it. They said they won't and the only way they will close an account is if I print out a form, read it, sign it and fax it back to them and then wait 48 hours for them to review it.

Immediately I was concerned. What if I was a chronic gambler with no control? You are telling me the only way you will close the account is if I go through all those hoops? They make people jump through all of them because they know most people will not go through all that to get an account closed. Plus by the time they get around to it, the ill person could have lost a few hundred thousand more.

So even though I was vip there, I closed my account. Why? Because I find it dangerous and insulting. You are treating the player like a cash cow and nothing else.

Im sure im just a small fish in a large ocean but i dont care. Im not putting up with casino's who act like that. So I closed my account and limited my deposit options to zero since all I need to say is re open my account and they would. But now I cant deposit so yeah. There are lots of casino's out there that treat the player like a person and not their own personal ATM. If there is one thing I despise with a casino, its a poor RG system.

Slotsmillion has impressed me with their system. They have a lock option on the cashier page so you cant reverse a withdraw until banking gets around to processing. This is what I love to see.
 

miso

Meister Member
MM
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Location
Ireland
Here's one for you, it happened a few years back but I thought it was a really cool thing to do. I was playing at accredited casino and had a WD pending over a weekend. I reversed a bit and played it back. That evening I went back and reversed another bit to save me a deposit elsewhere, when the live chat popped up with CS asking me whether I'm OK, apparently they noticed I reversed twice.

Now this was years ago and they might not have the same measures in place anymore, but at the time I thought it was rather nice from them to contact me.
 

MaltesePlayer

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Location
Neverland
Here's one for you, it happened a few years back but I thought it was a really cool thing to do. I was playing at accredited casino and had a WD pending over a weekend. I reversed a bit and played it back. That evening I went back and reversed another bit to save me a deposit elsewhere, when the live chat popped up with CS asking me whether I'm OK, apparently they noticed I reversed twice.

Now this was years ago and they might not have the same measures in place anymore, but at the time I thought it was rather nice from them to contact me.

I still do something similar but I do it via email as most customers tend to get annoyed when you try to contact them via live chat :)
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
And it would be as follows. Any person who deposits and then claims they want a refund due to gambling issues, SE that was not honoroed as so on would not get any refund. Basicially the sale is final, with no possiiblty what so ever of claiming a penny back. This would stop people using SE as a way to claim back losses. As they would be no point because the rules would be clear. You deposit and you wont see that money again unless of course you win.

The problem with that is that then they would have to pay out any winnings, in which case why bother with any self exclusion at all?

Immediately I was concerned. What if I was a chronic gambler with no control? You are telling me the only way you will close the account is if I go through all those hoops? They make people jump through all of them because they know most people will not go through all that to get an account closed. Plus by the time they get around to it, the ill person could have lost a few hundred thousand more.

Completely agree, and I closed my account with 32red last year when they made the changes they did.

In my view any casino that puts hurdles in the way of self exclusion should have license sanctions. Especially FAX the form over ffs. Who has a fax machine these days? Even printing a form off is bad enough. Not everyone has a printer, or computer, if the account isn't locked immediately then there is no responsible gaming measure going on, as happened recently. The OP in this thread has stated exactly what should happen, the opposite of what 32Red did.
 

lockinlove

Staring into the sun
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Location
Canada
The problem with that is that then they would have to pay out any winnings, in which case why bother with any self exclusion at all?



Completely agree, and I closed my account with 32red last year when they made the changes they did.

In my view any casino that puts hurdles in the way of self exclusion should have license sanctions. Especially FAX the form over ffs. Who has a fax machine these days? Even printing a form off is bad enough. Not everyone has a printer, or computer, if the account isn't locked immediately then there is no responsible gaming measure going on, as happened recently. The OP in this thread has stated exactly what should happen, the opposite of what 32Red did.

That's exactly what I thought. How many people own either of these things. I have a printer somewhere but I dont have a fax machine. But lets be realistic here, they dont care about any of these things or the fax back form. It was a few higher ups sitting in a room talking about how they can delay self exclusions without it looking too scummy.
 

Deeplay

New World Order
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The biG Eu
The problem with that is that then they would have to pay out any winnings, in which case why bother with any self exclusion at all?



Completely agree, and I closed my account with 32red last year when they made the changes they did.

In my view any casino that puts hurdles in the way of self exclusion should have license sanctions. Especially FAX the form over ffs. Who has a fax machine these days? Even printing a form off is bad enough. Not everyone has a printer, or computer, if the account isn't locked immediately then there is no responsible gaming measure going on, as happened recently. The OP in this thread has stated exactly what should happen, the opposite of what 32Red did.


Simple any winnings are either not paid or taken as part of the fine. Harsh measure all round but it would stop the utter crap I have seen as of late .... its pathetic a person looking for a loophole and trying to play the system and it went the way I thought it would CGs are compulsive liars and will do anything and everything to claw it back. Until they get help. So hard measure would be needed and personally call me harsh but I have zero sympathy as a person has to take responsibility for there own actions.
 

Mark_32Red (retired acct)

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May 23, 2008
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32Red Marketing Dpt
The OP in this thread has stated exactly what should happen, the opposite of what 32Red did.

Hi Colin,

I hope you are well.

Sorry, I just had to ask - are you aware of the steps taken by 32Red with regards to that particular player's complaint? You seem to know more that what has been shared publicly. I can only assume the OP from that thread has given you further details?

Thanks
Mark
 

MaltesePlayer

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Location
Neverland
Hi Colin,

I hope you are well.

Sorry, I just had to ask - are you aware of the steps taken by 32Red with regards to that particular player's complaint? You seem to know more that what has been shared publicly. I can only assume the OP from that thread has given you further details?

Thanks
Mark

Hi Guys,

Please don't start an argument on this thread. This thread was a general one to discuss CS perspective on RG, not any specific casino's method. People are free to mention casinos but I'm not using this thread to attack any casino nor any ongoing complaints/threads directly.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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MM
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Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Hi Colin,

I hope you are well.

Sorry, I just had to ask - are you aware of the steps taken by 32Red with regards to that particular player's complaint? You seem to know more that what has been shared publicly. I can only assume the OP from that thread has given you further details?

Thanks
Mark

I dont want to continue that discussion in another thread, and probably should have stated a recent case rather than 32red, even though everyone would have known who i meant. One question though, was his account locked by live chat when he first mentioned he had a gambing problem, then im happy to chat by pm about general rg matters rather than a specific case which presumbly you cant get into in any detail anyway :thumbsup:
 

Deeplay

New World Order
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CAG
mm1
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Location
The biG Eu
Hi Guys,

Please don't start an argument on this thread. This thread was a general one to discuss CS perspective on RG, not any specific casino's method. People are free to mention casinos but I'm not using this thread to attack any casino nor any ongoing complaints/threads directly.

Dont think anyone is attacking anyone ;-) but this thread does come right on the back of a long post about this very issue. So its kinda hard that people wont at times be tempted to mention that ... I know I am but I better keep my gob shut :D

Suffice to say that for me online systems / support and so on are all well and good and part of a person trying to battle and over come gambling addiction. In the end though its not about social responsibility or self exclusion or what a casino or bingo hall or bookmakers offers in the way RG ... it comes right down to personal responsabilty. And if a person truly wants to take the (at times) brutal steps needed to address and learn to live with the addiction but not act upon the impulses that addiction will give.
 

interlog

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Just have a button the player can click on to self exclude. Once that button is pressed there is no going back and the player is automatically excluded from the casino.

If a customer asks to be excluded via chat then the CS person just closes that account.

If the customer afterwards complains, then it is really bad luck on his part. Shouldn't have pressed that button or asked to be self excluded via chat.

Most casinos do this. Some don't and those casinos should just implement it. It is not difficult - it will literally take a competent web developer 2 minutes to programme (a bit of html and a couple of SQL queries). If casinos don't, then they find themselves open to potential self exclusion abuse and I will have no sympathy for them if they are forced to refund any deposits if they did something wrong.

If a customer circumvents the self exclusion (by for example making another account) then the casino should not be held responsible unless all of the details are the same as the self excluded account.
 

MaltesePlayer

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Location
Neverland
Just have a button the player can click on to self exclude. Once that button is pressed there is no going back and the player is automatically excluded from the casino.

If a customer asks to be excluded via chat then the CS person just closes that account.

If the customer afterwards complains, then it is really bad luck on his part. Shouldn't have pressed that button or asked to be self excluded via chat.

Most casinos do this. Some don't and those casinos should just implement it. It is not difficult - it will literally take a competent web developer 2 minutes to programme (a bit of html and a couple of SQL queries). If casinos don't, then they find themselves open to potential self exclusion abuse and I will have no sympathy for them if they are forced to refund any deposits if they did something wrong.

If a customer circumvents the self exclusion (by for example making another account) then the casino should not be held responsible unless all of the details are the same as the self excluded account.

We agree on the last part but on the "button pressing", most of the work behind the scenes is still done manually by a CS agent so it's up to the Casino to then get its records straight ;)
 

interlog

Meister Member
webmeister
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We agree on the last part but on the "button pressing", most of the work behind the scenes is still done manually by a CS agent so it's up to the Casino to then get its records straight ;)

Why would it need customer service intervention? I have locked accounts before at numerous casinos for periods time by simple button pressing - no customer service intervention was needed.
 

MaltesePlayer

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2017
Location
Neverland
Why would it need customer service intervention? I have locked accounts before at numerous casinos for periods time by simple button pressing - no customer service intervention was needed.

Misunderstanding here :) Yes granted, from your end you're pressing the button. But from the CS POV, all that happens is that an email is sent out to all CS agents that person X has requested Y Exclusion. And it's their job to actually input it onto the system, leave notes, etc.
 
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