RESOLVED: Please help!!! re: CasinoMax

420honey777

Newbie member
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Location
USA
First I'd like to thank all of you who offered support and Karolina for her timely response.
However I am entirely shocked by her response and really not sure what to say.
Some things that stood out to me were the responses to my use of the word 'glitch'.

Upon reflection, clearly this was not a software 'glitch' but rather a design that promotes breach of the max bet rule when playing on a bonus.

Clearly, I made an error here by not realizing the game had reset to a wager over $10 by reverting to the maximum number of lines.
Second, I believe there must be some misunderstanding here and this may have been caused by the focus on the word glitch.
Aside from use of the word, we are in agreement that due to system oddities (which, by the way, are not listed anywhere in the game rules or elsewhere), I made ONE spin that was over the limit and contacted support immediately.
I just cannot believe that the management of a respected casino and their casinomeister representative would believe that this is a reasonable decision. Therefore I request that CasinoMax reconsider their decision and that my balance be restored in full.
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
...I'm afraid that terms are terms and OP breached those, therefore we didn't have a choice as to follow casino rules.

Kind Regards,
Karolina

Of course you have a choice, who isn't giving you a choice? Would the international terms and conditions police come throw you in jail if you paid this guy? Like the sentence doesn't mean anything. You chose not to grant leniency on a term violation and you chose not to pay the player. At least own up to that, don't say you didn't have a choice.

Especially weird how casinos serving grey market legal jurisdictions all of a sudden have supreme reverence for the written word being followed to a T when it comes to their own terms and conditions. Meanwhile their own existence relies upon a very flexible interpretation of the law (and sometimes outright violation of laws to process credit cards). Not that I'm complaining since I like people having the freedom to gamble if they so choose.

In any case, Karolina's other post mentioned - sort of offhand, that "Adding to the story there was also general Terms and Conditions breach as the OP has a similar account where high % welcome offer bonus was also used."

Is that meaning to say that the poster had created multiple accounts at this single casino? That seems like a far greater claim against the player if true than a single mistaken bet. While in my opinion it's ridiculous to invalidate an $8k win due to a clearly accidental oversize bet - (seriously even try to come up with a hypothetical scenario a player is going to risk an $8k win to make a $25 bet and then immediately contact support to tell on himself - i'll wait), it's a different matter if the player used multiple accounts to rapidly claim bonuses. But somehow this got kind of glossed over even though (if true) it's probably the most important detail in the specific case.

I still think the more general principle of throwing out a player's winnings due to a very clear mistake is poor and ethically questionable behavior though.
 
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laneace44

Newbie member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Location
USA
I’d also like to know how this general T&C breach played into the final decision. One accidental click voiding an entire jackpot is hard to swallow as an outsider and avid player at Casino Max.
 

FAZI1

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Location
Punta Cana
So Karolia Just confirmed under their groups ( Casino Max - Roaring21 and Chery Casino )

If player play with their bonuses and make single bet over max bet then they voided all customers winings

So if customer make single miss click bet over max bet and noticed this - stop play – reported this to casino – decision will be still - winings voided for broke max bet rule.

Its clear example of not player friendly casinos it’s different situation when player play with bonus – finish bonus wagering and during revieved game history casino see several bets over max bet
  • And situation where player make 1 or 2 single spin over max bet by mistake / miss click stop play and reported this to casino - things like this happen from time to time for every customers
But yes they can do this they have this rule on T&C - So all is clear - Karolina just send clear message for all players playing in one of this casinos – even single mis click -mistake spin over max bet – When player stop play and reported this to staff = 100% confiscated winings for broke terms and conditions

at least players know what to expect when playing in one of their casinos - ( Based of her answer for them situation when player make one single miss / mistake click bet over max bet - pause on play and reported mistake to casino is same like situation when player playing with bonus finish wagering and casino find several bets over max bet.
 
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Karolina-CasinoMax

Accredited Casino Representative
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Location
UK
First I'd like to thank all of you who offered support and Karolina for her timely response.
However I am entirely shocked by her response and really not sure what to say.
Some things that stood out to me were the responses to my use of the word 'glitch'.

Upon reflection, clearly this was not a software 'glitch' but rather a design that promotes breach of the max bet rule when playing on a bonus.

Clearly, I made an error here by not realizing the game had reset to a wager over $10 by reverting to the maximum number of lines.
Second, I believe there must be some misunderstanding here and this may have been caused by the focus on the word glitch.
Aside from use of the word, we are in agreement that due to system oddities (which, by the way, are not listed anywhere in the game rules or elsewhere), I made ONE spin that was over the limit and contacted support immediately.
I just cannot believe that the management of a respected casino and their casinomeister representative would believe that this is a reasonable decision. Therefore I request that CasinoMax reconsider their decision and that my balance be restored in full.

Hi 420honey777,

As we already established it wasn't casino glitch or error what has happened. When you claimed the bonus you exactly knew the rules of the bonus.

Bonus terms and conditions were breached which resulted in the balance being void.

Kind Regards,
Karolina
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
And yet again, my perfectly reasonable question is ignored.
Wonder why.....

It's a fair question but to be honest there's probably 100 things more worrisome when we're talking about US facing casinos and their software. Even games as simple as baccarat have had incorrect payouts (rival), so who even knows for sure if some of these more complicated slot games actually pay out how they're supposed to.

Regarding RTG, there was a period of like... 6 months? - where a lot of their games were spinning at hyper speed, it took a month for them to actually acknowledge the problem, and another 5 or so to actually fix it. For a problem as visually obvious as their games spinning at hyper speed at the slowest settings. (They did actually fix this, didn't they? I prefer to play at fast speeds anyways so I'm happy with it but I know others weren't.)

So when the absolute most blatantly obvious software problems don't get fixed, something as specific as games saving bet size but not lines played is not something I have high hopes for.

This is pretty much how things go at US facing casinos. You just hope you're getting a fair game and that it won't take longer than a week or two to get paid if you win, everything beyond that you just have to put up with. (I just waited a week and a half on ID verification at intertops, now just have to wait the two business day pending period and another (?) two business day estimated processing time after that to get a payout. You aren't even allowed to request the cashout and start clearing the mandatory two day withdrawal waiting period until they verify you. This on an account I've had for over a year and never won before. As annoying as this is, it's not exactly unusual in the US.) If someone were fortunate enough to hit a truly big win (say $20k+) I don't think there are more than a handful of casinos that would pay out without taking months, even with options like bitcoin available to ease US payment processing difficulties.
 

Karolina-CasinoMax

Accredited Casino Representative
Joined
Mar 3, 2017
Location
UK
And yet again, my perfectly reasonable question is ignored.
Wonder why.....

Hi colinsunderland,

I do apologize about the later reply, I didn't ignore your question. Just simply missed it, I'm sorry.

All games in our casinos are provided by RealTimeGaming. As well as the Slot Fruit Frenzy in question. The games are designed and set up by RTG.

It is out of our control how the games are designed or set up.

Kind Regards,
Karolina
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Hi colinsunderland,

I do apologize about the later reply, I didn't ignore your question. Just simply missed it, I'm sorry.

All games in our casinos are provided by RealTimeGaming. As well as the Slot Fruit Frenzy in question. The games are designed and set up by RTG.

It is out of our control how the games are designed or set up.

Kind Regards,
Karolina

Yes but do you not agree that resetting half of the user definable settings is setting up the customer to fail?
If it reset the whole game back to default, ie $1.25, fair enough. If it opened at the previous setting, 8 lines at $1 stake, fair enough. But leaving the $1 stake and resetting the number of lines to 25? I understand it isn't your fault it happens this way, but surely, after 1 spin, and the customer contacting support immediately, in a situation like this, and a losing spin. then you could be a little understanding?

The fact he has another account on your network where there was no 'bonus abuse' should be more proof he wasn't attempting to defraud you?

I know you have to be aware of bonus abuse and protect yourselves, but unless there is information you haven't disclosed, nor the OP, then I think the decision is a little harsh I'm afraid.
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
I mean can anyone of us who have been playing for years say that we HAVEN'T accidentally clicked some kind of max bet or overbet on rare occasion by mistake?

I have to think that 99% of people who have played at online casinos for a long time have done this in one way or another, often as a result of bad software design, but sometimes even a simple mistake. If you only screw up 1 in 1000 times, but you perform an action 10,000+ times in your life, the stupidest thing will eventually happen.

I had forgotten but I actually made the same mistake OP did at lucky club casino, which basically runs a spinoff version of RTG software. Was playing 20 lines on a 50 line game ($5 spin), the software required you to go to a new window and reload to check cashier, came back and clicked autoplay - shit, it's running at $12.50 a spin, cancel, cancel, cancel. While it was a much smaller win than OP here, I did contact support there right after and did end up getting paid. I know I've also made the mistake at least one other time where it didn't matter because I lost anyway.

I think I'm pretty careful over all but these things will simply happen on rare occasion if you gamble enough. Sometimes when we play we might be tired or even just lose focus for a second and slip up, so it's kind of unfortunate if some casinos are completely inflexible, you're doing something for fun but somewhere in the back of your mind you have to be on edge that a single slip up could cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars. So I can understand why some people just avoid bonuses altogether.
 

slotmaster

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
PABinit
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Location
Ontario
the casino pays the Random jackpots, as they are local. RTG would pay any network ones.
but PLAYERS funded all but the seed money $1K I believe. This jackpot should be reinstated, I do hope Karolina will inform us once it is.

I was told different actually by this rep unless something has changed the last few years, They submit all jackpot wins to RTG who releases the funds. So if that is still the case they can pay this person if they want too.
 

FAZI1

Full Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2011
Location
Punta Cana
Im have exacly same situation 2 month ago but in good quality casino - Playing with bonus after few h with good balance over 1k e im make mistake 40e bet spin - noticed this stop play and send email to casino and got this answer

KCYxvk6.png


After person from payments team revieved my game history and see all my bets beetwen 2-5e and only one single last bet over max bet 40e - Im recived answer " you can continue play as the 40e bet was cleary mistake"

In same situation in this casino OP recived answer - " we didnt have a choice we need take your money.

I'm afraid that terms are terms and OP breached those, therefore we didn't have a choice as to follow casino rules.

Kind Regards,
Karolina

So same situations and 2 different casinos - one site say - cleary mistake you can continue play and secund site tell you - we dont have choice we need take your money - This is very clear example what you can expect in good quality player friendly casino vs not players friendly casino .

This time they confiscated winnings for this customer but next day same story can happen for every customers playing under this group with bonuses - They have big bonus wagering so if player got lucky and slowly build balance spend often few h or more making small - medium bets under 10$ and if some point during sesion customer lose concentration and make 1 miss click or mistake spin then - is done - bonus abusing with 1 mistake spin - casino voided winings .

It's not help you that you know site bonus T&C - one mis click and they will confiscate the money.

Playing in casino should be fun enterteiment? Im dont know how can be fun playing with bonuses in casino when customer know one single mis/ mistake click during long session with bonuses will cost him confiscated money.
 
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Jessica Littlefield

Dormant Account
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Location
Los Angeles
I play slots online, I enjoy it. I don’t live near a casino. I’d like to think that I am getting a fair deal when I play slots online. This is anything but. This is beyond disgusting and I cannot imagine any real casino doing anything remotely like this. In fact in Los Vegas, which is the closest casinos to me, if a casino ever did something half as underhanded as this, the regulators would certainly punish them harshly TO PROTECT THEIR INDUSTRY. Not even for the gambler but for the industry, itself.
I would like to continue playing slots online, it is quite fun. But, I can’t unless I know which casinos treat their players fairly. I’m just glad that there are sites like this one that enable a player to figure that out.
 

rena35

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Location
cyber space
Oh well i figured it. I have a prediction that i will keep to myself.Just call me Mrs. Cleo . Please if you live in the USA read what other players are saying and understand that the USA facing casinos are very different then other casinos that are regulated. We do not have a leg to stand on. As posted above about Omni slots that was a grand gesture and very nice. Humans make mistakes. I have always felt like the bonuses are a trap. Sometimes even with no bonus play, some casino's find ways to not pay (not saying this is the case here) . I have seen every excuse under the sun . Deposit until you hit big and all of a sudden you are a multi account fraudster . Also the stall tactics from some casinos will get you frustrated and possible cause you to play it back. It is up to each player to figure out if the hoops are worth it in the end. I am down to playing at 2 casino's right now. Both pay with out hassle and do not have the 6 page bonus terms. The only problem is the slots are high variance and very hard for a penny roller to roll onto anything decent to cash out. Since i had a bit more money to spend i have played a bit more. No luck. I would quit but i do enjoy spinning when i can and would love to find a slot that actually likes me . As in everything else, it is up to you as the player to educate yourself as to where to play and where not to. No one forces anyone to play anywhere but it is not that serious that you keep going back to somewhere that will deny a player a winning over a mistake. I am very sad for the player because i know how i would feel.
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
Oh well i figured it. I have a prediction that i will keep to myself.Just call me Mrs. Cleo . Please if you live in the USA read what other players are saying and understand that the USA facing casinos are very different then other casinos that are regulated. We do not have a leg to stand on. As posted above about Omni slots that was a grand gesture and very nice. Humans make mistakes. I have always felt like the bonuses are a trap. Sometimes even with no bonus play, some casino's find ways to not pay (not saying this is the case here) . I have seen every excuse under the sun . Deposit until you hit big and all of a sudden you are a multi account fraudster . Also the stall tactics from some casinos will get you frustrated and possible cause you to play it back. It is up to each player to figure out if the hoops are worth it in the end. I am down to playing at 2 casino's right now. Both pay with out hassle and do not have the 6 page bonus terms. The only problem is the slots are high variance and very hard for a penny roller to roll onto anything decent to cash out. Since i had a bit more money to spend i have played a bit more. No luck. I would quit but i do enjoy spinning when i can and would love to find a slot that actually likes me . As in everything else, it is up to you as the player to educate yourself as to where to play and where not to. No one forces anyone to play anywhere but it is not that serious that you keep going back to somewhere that will deny a player a winning over a mistake. I am very sad for the player because i know how i would feel.

I was curious which two casinos you might be referring to but didn't want to derail this thread, so made a new one here if you or others wanted to share your thoughts on your most preferred casinos in this often frustrating USA market:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/your-favorite-usa-facing-casinos.90566/
 

420honey777

Newbie member
Joined
Jan 16, 2020
Location
USA
Thank you all for the fabulous support I have been shown here in the forum. A few thoughts:
While I have now stated that it was not a 'glitch' but an error on my part due to the odd way the machine resets only the number of lines, the casino representative continues to allow that word to be a distraction rather than practicing reasonable common sense and good customer service values. Irrelevant emphasis on the word 'glitch' takes away from the main point;
after returning from the cashier, I played ONE SPIN over the allowed amount, did not win anything, immediately contacted support, and was informed that a note would be made and that I should continue to play. That is really insult to injury considering the amount of time I played with no chance of a cashout.

The casino representative stated the casino had “didn’t have a choice” when it came to voiding these winnings. As ZREB stated, of course the casino has a choice in this matter, and given that I immediately contacted them and was told to complete the rollover, clearly even the chat operator believed this to be the case.

Also note that I do not have duplicate accounts. The account the casino representative was referring to is from Roaring21, which I now see if one of their sister casinos. On that same response where KAROLINA lists the sister casinos, it states “accredited casinos” yet I did not find them on the accredited list. If they are accredited, does the forum administrator or site operator believe their ruling is in line with what an ‘accredited casino’ would decide?
I am very open to any sort of compromise solution that might include further rollover or some sort of payment plan over time. Does anyone have any ideas on this? Would CasinoMax be open to a compromise solution?
If CasinoMax and Karolina really believe what they are doing is right, maybe they should just state the following:

We at CasinoMax agree that the player played ONE SPIN over the $10 maximum bet rule, contacted support and was informed to finish the rollover and a note a made on the account. In spite of this, we have chosen to void the entirety of said players winnings. As an accredited casino, we believe this to be a fair and equitable decision.
If they say this, I guess there is not much else I can do, unless anyone here can offer any other ideas. I’m open to doing anything necessary to positively resolve this issue. As slotmaster had a similar problem positively resolved, I hate to think casinomax is only making this remarkably stringent decision based on the amount of the winnings. I’m just horrified that my most happy gaming day has turned into an total nightmare.

Thanks again to everyone who has offered such supportive comments on this thread!
 

Cocochanel

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Location
Denmark
Thank you all for the fabulous support I have been shown here in the forum. A few thoughts:
While I have now stated that it was not a 'glitch' but an error on my part due to the odd way the machine resets only the number of lines, the casino representative continues to allow that word to be a distraction rather than practicing reasonable common sense and good customer service values. Irrelevant emphasis on the word 'glitch' takes away from the main point;
after returning from the cashier, I played ONE SPIN over the allowed amount, did not win anything, immediately contacted support, and was informed that a note would be made and that I should continue to play. That is really insult to injury considering the amount of time I played with no chance of a cashout.

The casino representative stated the casino had “didn’t have a choice” when it came to voiding these winnings. As ZREB stated, of course the casino has a choice in this matter, and given that I immediately contacted them and was told to complete the rollover, clearly even the chat operator believed this to be the case.

Also note that I do not have duplicate accounts. The account the casino representative was referring to is from Roaring21, which I now see if one of their sister casinos. On that same response where KAROLINA lists the sister casinos, it states “accredited casinos” yet I did not find them on the accredited list. If they are accredited, does the forum administrator or site operator believe their ruling is in line with what an ‘accredited casino’ would decide?
I am very open to any sort of compromise solution that might include further rollover or some sort of payment plan over time. Does anyone have any ideas on this? Would CasinoMax be open to a compromise solution?
If CasinoMax and Karolina really believe what they are doing is right, maybe they should just state the following:

We at CasinoMax agree that the player played ONE SPIN over the $10 maximum bet rule, contacted support and was informed to finish the rollover and a note a made on the account. In spite of this, we have chosen to void the entirety of said players winnings. As an accredited casino, we believe this to be a fair and equitable decision.
If they say this, I guess there is not much else I can do, unless anyone here can offer any other ideas. I’m open to doing anything necessary to positively resolve this issue. As slotmaster had a similar problem positively resolved, I hate to think casinomax is only making this remarkably stringent decision based on the amount of the winnings. I’m just horrified that my most happy gaming day has turned into an total nightmare.

Thanks again to everyone who has offered such supportive comments on this thread!


Hi there.

I feel so sorry for you and I dont think its fair that the casino will not pay you.

They have tons of cash from all the loosing people and a litlle mistake and they take all the money.

I have tried it myself. Went to chat rigth away and told them, no mercy there either, so that was goodbye casino for me. Never went back.

I do hope they change their minds.
 

laneace44

Newbie member
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Location
USA
Thank you all for the fabulous support I have been shown here in the forum. A few thoughts:
While I have now stated that it was not a 'glitch' but an error on my part due to the odd way the machine resets only the number of lines, the casino representative continues to allow that word to be a distraction rather than practicing reasonable common sense and good customer service values. Irrelevant emphasis on the word 'glitch' takes away from the main point;
after returning from the cashier, I played ONE SPIN over the allowed amount, did not win anything, immediately contacted support, and was informed that a note would be made and that I should continue to play. That is really insult to injury considering the amount of time I played with no chance of a cashout

I stand with you OP! Actions speak louder than words and I am abstaining from making any more deposits at CM unless they resolve this matter in a fair and equitable way. I hope others join me as our power comes from numbers and showing we will not condone this kind of behavior towards fellow players.
 

reda

Senior Member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Location
HOUSTON
I hve acccidenally wagered a spin or maybe two by mistake over the limit. it was on a game that was new and I was not familiar with the buttons. don't know how I manged to bet 12 dollars a spin as in my play history from yrs back that's not how I play. I immediately contacted live chat. and sent a email to casino as welll . I explained to them that if they go back and look at my play history they will know it was accidental. with in a day or two the casino did email me back. and they did give me my winings. since then I try to be double careful. but I was lucky I guess they paid me and also I think being a long time casino player making yrs of deposits showed I was there for the long haul. it turned out well for me. and the casino is accredited here on casinomeister. good luck and I hope all works out
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
Can you PAB? I have a hard time believing Max would be ok with this result. Taking a players win because of one accident. Get a grip. Totally disgusting.

Wonder if anyone can recall precedent on how such a case has gone before? You'd think the situation would have come up several times before but maybe not publicly.

Regarding max's philosophy for such decisions, it seems to be that the terms are the terms and unless they are blatantly predatory or unfair, you agreed to abide by them and live with the consequences:

From a previous thread regarding a different issue:

Question - Grande Vegas terms
As much as this sucks the bottom line is that you violated the Terms, no?

Why they have that term is not really the point. The fact is that you accepted it in order to play and then -- inadvertently or not -- broke it.

I can fully understand where one might say "that's a crappy Term and I'm not going to play there any more" and that of course is totally a valid choice to make. BUT, if you accept the Term(s) and proceed then generally speaking you are bound by them, and violations have consequences.

Just to be clear, I'm not defending the logic of the Term, only whether it is blatantly unfair to the player. And that I don't see here.

So the question is whether the enforcement of the term for an accidental bet would be viewed as predatory or blatantly unfair by Max.

I don't know if he feels like reading the whole thread but it might help if we knew how he views the situation in general of winnings being confiscated due to a bet that was clearly placed in error yet violated the max bet term.

@maxd
 

zreb

Experienced Member
PABaccred
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Location
currently in US
There's still the additional issue of a supposed general term violation due to multiple accounts.

Could @Karolina-CasinoMax clarify if these are multiple accounts at the SAME casino, or if players are not allowed to take a welcome bonus at casino max if they took one at a sister casino?

I could not find any term saying you can't take a welcome bonus at both casino max and one of its sister casinos, but the player claims that these accounts were at separate casinos within the group. Karolina's original post did not really make it clear what the player is accused of.

It would be good to know in general if casinomax does not allow players to take bonuses -or welcome bonuses in particular - at more than one casino in the group, because as I said I couldn't find that anywhere in the terms at a quick lookover.
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
For me, the main thing is that the bet size increased between closing the game and then re-opening it, I think that should be a factor in what happened too. If the game is reset when its closed and re-opened then everything should be reset not just part of it. While it's not the casinos fault it does that, it does go someway to explaining the mistake, especially as he contacted live chat immediately.
 

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