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[RESOLVED] New RED 32 customer beware

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by tick tock, Nov 10, 2007.

Thread Status:
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    Nov 10, 2007
  1. tick tock

    tick tock Dormant account

    Occupation:
    admin
    Location:
    felixstowe
    I should give i am not lucky enough
    Red 32
    What a joke


    Thank you for chatting with us.
    Feel free to review your transcript below.
    Close Window
    Chat Transcript


    Susan: Thank you for contacting us, 32xxxxxxxx. My name is Susan, how can I help?
    32re011:Hi I just signed up to you casino this morning and the system locked my account why?
    Susan: Your account has been locked as part of a routine security procedure, please check your inbox for details
    32re011:Right i have just sent that why was this not ask before i deposited?
    32re011:am i a high risk customer?
    Susan: security procedures are carried out when a customer makes a deposit and unfortunately we were unable to verify your details
    32re011:is my account still locked
    Susan: unfortunately your account will remain locked until we are able to verify your details
    32re011:how long before someone reads my email? If this is going to take a longer than 1 hour I request that you return my deposit throught the debit card i made it from and remove my account details from your system
    Susan: one moment please
    32re011:this is a fine way to treat a new customer thanks for theexperance
    Susan: our security team have recieved your email and are dealing with it now, they will be in touch as soon as this matter is resolved, I appreciate your frustration and I apologise for the inconvenience, thank you for the speedy response
    32re011:i want my money back and please close my account
    32re01575931:as i have not been allowed to use your sytem and i have not got what i paid for
    32re011:please can you confirm that my 50 has been deposited back to my debit card
    Susan: Unfortunately we will be unable to refund the 50 as the funds have already been spent, however if you please bear with us while security check your details your account should be reopened within the next hour
    32re011:how can i spend any money if my accont is not active
    Susan: Once again I am sorry about this, it is a necessary procedure for the safety of our customers, but I understand your frustration
    32re011:if i had won 200 you would not give it to me
    32re011:this is a joke
    32re011:I should have not allowed to deposit then this would not happen
    Susan: the balance will remain intact regardless of win or loss
    32re011:But you let me make a deposit and then you telkl me i cant us it
    Susan: can I reiterate that once security have verified your details, your gameplay will resume as before
    32re011:You should have not acepted the deposit
    Susan: this should be within the hour
    32re011:this is goning to be printed on the forum and your rep can respond
    32re011:anymore comments you would like to make
    Susan: I am very sorry that you feel this way, as previously stated the balance will remain in tact and our security team are currently looking into your account, they will email you within the next 30 minutes to an hour.
    32re011:the reason i feel this way is that i have paid for something that i cant use
    Susan: as soon as our security team have verified your details you will be able to continue with play as you were before
    32re011:not good enough as i have said why take the deposit ???????????????
    32re011:The deposit should have been declined until i could if i wanted to prove my id
    32re011:not after i have made the deposit that is what has upset me over this
    Susan: All detailed security checks are carried out once a card is registered to an account, we have to ensure that all details on the account can be verified for your safety as well as our own
    32re011:why take money from the card then
    32re011:again if i try to make a deposit you should decline until i supply proof that i am who i say i am
    32re011:i may not have had my details in pdf format then i may have my fund looked for weeks with no access to them
    32re011:as i said i will publish this so other new customwer
    32re011:as i said i will publish this so other new customers know what will happen if they deposit with your casino
    Susan: our security team have just emailed you regarding your account
    Susan: they have verified your details and your account has been reopened
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2007
  2. Nov 10, 2007
  3. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I would imagine that, due to the speed that the account was locked - before you could even play - this is a built-in security check in the software that for one or more reasons your sign-up details or deposit method triggered and the operator is required to make a manual check.

    Personally I thought the CS op herself handled it pretty well and they seemed to get you verified pretty quick - I've always been a 32Red fan so take that as you will, but you were clearly very frustrated and it is annoying when you just want to play and find you can't. If I were in CS I'd lose my job within the week I'm sure :D

    The problem is these days, the honest and good players have to put up with crap like this because of a few idiots who open up accounts with false information, abuse bonuses, launder funds, use stolen credit cards etc etc. That's just the way it is unfortunately and why there are so many security checks.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Nov 10, 2007
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The problem is that new players are not told of how these checks might affect them in advance, and each casino does things in their own way.
    This leaves players like this one feeling they have been accused of something, as the casino is using the stalling tactics that are generally used for suspected fraud. The problems stem from those casinos that lie to players, pretending there are "technical" issues, and asking them to wait a bit longer, then a bit longer again, and a couple of weeks later the player finds that all along they had been flagged for fraud.
    This was not my experience with 32Red when I joined, I was able to deposit and play, and documents only became an issue when withdrawals above a certain amount were requested.
    The CS rep was struggling to convince this player that it really WAS just a brief verification procedure, and by now I expect this player is happily (or grumpily) playing with their 50. It is perhaps inflammatory to refuse to allow the player to withdraw from the contract after finding out it was not as advertised, and there should have been no security issue just sending it back to the card it came from, which can be done for a UK debit card, as well as UK VISA Credit cards.
    What would be interesting would be to hear back from this player whether the CS lived up to the promise, and either cleared the account for use, or agreed to refund the deposit and close the account as initially requested.
    Casinos in general should make sure that "security" checks remain just that, as some seem to have double standards, and only make security an "issue" where players have used a bonus, yet not really bothered with those that just play with their own (or stolen!) money.
    Some casinos then seem to go to the extreme, using rather obscure and illogical rules to mess players around. While these may be in the terms, they can be buried, and in more than one place, meaning that players who use "common sense" still find they get hit by odd terms.
    Some terms have cropped up as "security issues" but seem nothing more than "policy", and these casinos never seem to explain why the term is needed from a SECURITY point of view. One recent problem has been choice of currency, this is NOT a "security" issue, it is POLICY, and is down to bonus abuse where casinos are too lazy to introduce a bonus system that weights bonuses in relation to the relative strengths of the currencies offered.
    Recently, we have had cases of players having trouble when they have NOT claimed bonuses, and this seem to be a case of the casino using a term designed to prevent bonus abuse being extended to help them make more money by seizing winnings from players own funds.
    Many players see these tales, and it gives us an impression that this industry likes to "play dirty", as do quite a few real world businesses. This then leads to a tolerance of "Player fraud" as it is just seen as a clever player giving the casino business a taste of their own medicine. With player fraud gaining a bit of acceptance, it will increase, with a lot of "petty" fraud to do with taking advantage of loopholes in procedures taking place. This adds to the hardcore serious fraud, where organised crime gangs are involved in moving stolen money around through the online casino network so that it can't be easily traced.

    This has now lead to the current situation, where new players are viewed as guilty until verified as innocent. Once new players have played for a while, they will realise that this problem of verification can come out of the blue at ANY time, and often without any obvious justification. Worse, casinos will not explain WHY it is happening, they will just use the generalisation of "security checks", and once these checks are done, often the player is given the OK, but no explanation of what the hell happened that made them a "victim of the system" when they had done nothing wrong.
    In fact, casinos should go even further, documents should be requested as soon as accounts are registered, it should be part of the process for players to log on to the account hand upload their documents if they have them as files, and then they should be sent an activation code to release the banking page so they can then deposit in the full knowledge that now they are verified they can play, and if they win will get paid promptly.
    This would benefit players in the long term by introducing a cooling off period between the urge and ability to bet, and how long this cooling off period is will be down to the efficiency of the casino in processing the documents and granting approval, and I bet this will be much quicker than when the process is done at the first withdrawal.
    It is in the industries interest in getting players first deposit through as fast as possible, but to hang on to any withdrawals for as long as the players will tolerate.
    32Red pay withdrawals more quickly than the industry in general, and next day receipt to a web wallet is the norm. There are a handful that pay out quicker, but often this involves special arrangements, such as requesting a manual flush each time.

    New players should ensure that they have as JPEG images copies of the common documents, such as Drivers Licence, Passport, and arecent Utility Bill (which should be updated every time a more recent bill comes in if billed quarterly). If they are missing one or more of these, they should make arrangements in advance with the casino to be verified by other means, which might be a card statement for any card used, and an alternative proof of address of similar standing to a utility bill. Those who rent their accommodation are most likely to have a problem with verification, especially if they don't drive or travel abroad.
    Curiously, those who take up the environmental challenge and have signed up for online management of everything will find they have nothing physical to make a JPEG image of in order to prove their identity and address. Some companies will supply a paper copy on request, but will probably charge as they are not in the business of proving the identity of their customers, but of supplying the service. It is possible to get a letter for the purpose of proof of identity, but this means admitting to your bank, gas company, doctor etc that you play online casinos. Currently, there is no "citizen card" scheme run by the online casino industry that will allow players to prove themselves once and for all and then use this for all casinos they play at. In the real world, such schemes are increasingly common, as they have been proved to make it easier to take part in restricted activities, such as buying alcohol, or entering a casino. The idea of such a scheme has been suggested before, when these verification problems became a real burden on players, but the industry are not interested it seems, all they care about is releasing ever more products, upgrading existing ones, and making up ever more convoluted rules to patch up a failing security and bonusing system.
     
  6. Nov 10, 2007
  7. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    They did mate - while the conversation was going on, the account was verified and opened. See the last line of the chat.



    PS. Actually I have to admit I didn't read all your post as I struggle reading long paragraphs - lose my place - so apologies if you realised further down it was sorted :D
     
  8. Nov 10, 2007
  9. Mousey

    Mousey Ueber Meister Mouse CAG

    Occupation:
    Pencil Pusher
    Location:
    Up$hitCreek
    Personally, I feel that these 'security checks' should be done on the front end. But as VWM mentioned, it would save a bit of grief if players were informed before they signed up.

    Doing these security checks only after a player requests a withdrawal, perhaps after s/he has deposited and perhaps lost numerous times having played many times, smacks of incompetent or greedy or even marginally corrupt business practices.

    IMHO players don't like it either way. I feel vulnerable turning over personal, financial, confidential information to an unknown entity thousands of miles away.

    Example... when Acropolis was owned by Stanley (was it Stanley? my memory is awful), I was required to send a copy of DL and bank statement for my initial WD. It didn't bother me as I trusted them. Now, that casino has gone through some weird management/ownership changes over the last couple of years and I have no way in hell of knowing who or what has all my info.
     
  10. Nov 10, 2007
  11. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Did anyone notice this?

    The guy blew his 50 quid, THEN he wanted it back because his account was locked?
     
  12. Nov 10, 2007
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I thought that meant they were "spent" because they had merely been deposited, and the OP went on to protest how they couldn't spend the money because the account was locked.
    I would not have expected such impatience just to unlock an EMPTY account!
    At least they are now verified, and can have a go with the 32 monthly in December to see if their luck changes.
     
  14. Nov 10, 2007
  15. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    I can't buy that. I don't see any way that funds can be considered "spent" just because of a deposit - and it's not like Susan has any problem communicating in English. IMHO, any person would've said "we can't return funds which have been deposited" rather than saying "can't refund because the funds have been spent".
     
  16. Nov 10, 2007
  17. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    I don't know how their bonus system works... she is refering to a 'balance' that will remain intact, that confuses me. To give both sides the benefit of the doubt I would guess he deposited expecting a bonus, spent his initial deposit, couldn't acces bonus as the security check was in progres... this is the only thing that makes sense to me:what: but again, i don't know how their boni work.
     
  18. Nov 10, 2007
  19. ugaboga

    ugaboga Casino Addict

    Occupation:
    Information Technology, Day Trader
    Location:
    Australia
    I don't see how 32Red are in the wrong here. If anything they deserve credit for having well mannered and respectable customer service representatives. :thumbsup:

    One of those Carribean bookies would've told the customer to go jump if he took this line of discussion with them :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Nov 11, 2007
  21. paul02085

    paul02085 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Fishing :)
    Location:
    USA
    Sounds to me like he is just trying to be a hard a..
    Like Simmo said, i wouldnt last a week either putting up with this bs.
     
  22. Nov 11, 2007
  23. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    The OP was talking about a different casino anyway, "Red 32". I've never heard of them. Since they are doing business under a name similar to a reputable casino, I would avoid them.

    :D
     
  24. Nov 11, 2007
  25. tick tock

    tick tock Dormant account

    Occupation:
    admin
    Location:
    felixstowe
    here is what happened

    I depoit 50 the had the 50 bonus =100
    I was half way playing when the account was locked
    Booted first then when trying to logon told my account locked
    I took 45 mins of chat for them to activate my account
    If i went into a shop and they had a sale on 50% off so I pay 50 for a 100 coat on my debit card then they say but you cant take the coat away with you how upset would you be and would you also ask for your money back????
     
  26. Nov 11, 2007
  27. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    Yeah, I'd be a little miffed, but would also be glad I was shopping at the 32Red coat store where I would be sure to be taken care of.

    If someone breaks my stride, it pisses me off, but things happen. I'm sure you'll be well taken care of in the future if you choose to play there. The CS rep seemed competent and professional, which is more than can be said for many online casinos.

    It would be hard to ask for any compensation for your troubles as you already had a bonus, but they should at least give you the same opportunity again if that was a once-off sign up bonus... they broke your stride and are quite fair, so I expect they would allow it if you asked.

    Good luck.
     
  28. Nov 11, 2007
  29. tick tock

    tick tock Dormant account

    Occupation:
    admin
    Location:
    felixstowe
    do you work for 32red

    You seem to have nothing but praise for them your Americain you people complain if the tomato sauce is to warm at MacDonalds
    Everyone missed the point they should not take a deposit
    and should not take funds if you cant have or use service/items
    I don't care if its for an hour or 6 weeks
    What if I had not had my documents and had no way of PDF ing my ID and did not have access to a fax (some people don't even know what a PDF is)
    Would I had my fund held for ever more
    They and I mean all online casino should say right next to that 600% deposit bonus sign (on the download here screen) that documents are required before play
    or maybe this would put to many people off ?
    If I had been warned I would'nt have signed up
     
    2 people like this.
  30. Nov 11, 2007
  31. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    There's no 'one kind' of american any more than one kind of felixstowian, People everywhere bitch and moan :)

    I assumed you were referring to 32Red, of which I've only heard good things... but they would never offer 600%, you were kidding, right? NEVER deposit at a 600% casino, they are all rogues and nefarious scoundrels.

    But I agree 100% with your point; all systems should be 'Go' when I lay my money down, and I would guess that yes, it would put some people off. But now you've learned, and if you are going to play online, talk to the people first - many good casinos would be glad to have your action, but you have to initiate the conversation.

    Best of luck to you.
     
  32. Nov 11, 2007
  33. tick tock

    tick tock Dormant account

    Occupation:
    admin
    Location:
    felixstowe
    32RED

    Hi



    I am disappointed to read (at Casinomesiter) of the difficulties that you have experienced when joining us here at 32Red.


    We undertake a number of background checks at the time a new account is opened and the first deposit is made. These checks are undertaken for a number of reasons which are all aimed at protecting both the player and our business. Indeed we are also required under the terms of our operating licence, that we perform know your customer checks and verify the age of all players who make a deposit with us.

    These checks are undertaken automatically and behind the scenes at the time a deposit is made. Without giving away trade secrets, each purchase made on a credit or debit card provides us with certain information that will match the card details to the details registered on the account. This information is returned to us by means of a code, from the issuing bank, that matches elements of the information on the card (3 digit security code and name and address details). Any discrepancies here would give us cause for concern that it was potentially not actually the card holder who had performed the transaction. In such cases we would suspend the account until such time that we were able to verify these details. This was not the case with your account.

    We also undertake independent verification checks (using software called URU provided by GB Group Plc) again at the point of the initial deposit. These checks are performed so as to verify that the new player is of the legal age to be using our gaming software. Where we are unable to establish that the player is of legal age then we will suspend the account until such time that we can verify these details. This was the case with you Alec, and hence we asked for the documents that we did. As with any automated system, there can be some erroneous results returned for a variety of reasons. We always ensure that all accounts opened are further scanned by a pair of human eyes so that any inconsistencies in account details and results from these programmes can be rectified. Again, where we cant be certain of the age, or indeed identity of a player, then we will suspend the account.


    I hope that explains why we do what we do and how you fell foul of these checks. In cases where we fail to successfully verify a players age, then we will return any funds deposited back to the card where the deposit originated.

    You raise some interesting points about the information, or lack of it, that we have on our site in respect of these verification processes; Ill review these with my team and see what we can put into place.

    I hope that this experience hasnt spoiled your impressions of 32Red and I hope that we can look forward to you continuing to play here.

    Please dont hesitate to contact me should you have any queries on the above and in the meantime enjoy a few spins on the house with the free chips that are now in your account.



    Kind regards,

    Pat Harrison
    Operations Director
     
    4 people like this.
  34. Nov 11, 2007
  35. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Now you can see why 32Red are generally well supported here. Every casino has it's critics and no casino has perfect operating procedures, but they are among the better ones TT.

    Actually 32Red should give Susan some chips too - perhaps of the edible variety :D
     
    1 person likes this.
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