Your Input Please Removal of Auto Spins with UKGC

Should Autoplay be removed?

  • Yes Completely

    Votes: 8 7.1%
  • No

    Votes: 97 86.6%
  • Reduce to 25 Auto Spin Batches

    Votes: 8 7.1%

  • Total voters
    112

Big Time Gaming

I-Gaming Industry Representative
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Location
Syndey
@Casinomeister and Meister Members,

This week the UKGC announced that all UK facing casinos have to remove autoplay from all games.

The reason for removal: "Autoplay - which can lead to players losing track of their play."

I've been building online slots for over 20 years and totally disagree with the reasoning on this. I want to gauge player opinion, as I think such an ill-informed move could lead to less controlled gameplay or dissuade players so much that they seek offshore unregulated options.

As set out by the current UKGC guidelines, Auto Spins allows players to count their sessions spins, especially when counting towards a feature average. Players can set up loss limits on the fly to keep their cash balance in check. Removing this functionality and just having a spin button with no measure of spend or spins played over time is far more predatory.

I've written a couple of pieces for the press, and I'm also considering creating a petition for players to cast their opinion. If there is a consensus from the poll below that this might be missed, I will create a petition and approach the UKGC and directly discuss it.

You are the players, and you should really have some say on this.

The other rulings for removal I totally agree with and are as follows:

· Features that speed up play or give the illusion of control over the outcome
· Slot spin speeds faster than 2.5 seconds
· Sounds or imagery which give the illusion of a win when the return is in fact equal to, or below, a stake

Other changes include:
· The permanent ban on reverse withdrawals – a function which allows consumers to re-gamble money they had previously requested to withdraw
· Operators must clearly display to the player their total losses or wins and time played during any online slots session.

Please vote accordingly

Cheers

Nik
 

TheAddict

Ueber Meister
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Location
Kent
Wheover voted to reduce to 25. Please reconsider your vote. When I go outside for a cig, or leave the slot running to make a hot drink or perhaps need to visit the loo, all of which divert my focus from the reels spinning. It's always nice to return with the knowledge that because I left it on 100 spins I might have a nice bonus waiting for me upon my return.
Don't take that little buzz away from me. At first it was 1000. Then it was 100. Now they want 0. Next it'll be a prompt every 20 spins for you to accept, alerting you that you've just clicked the mouse 20 times. It's a slippery slope. Don't compromise! ;p
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
@Big Time Gaming

Nik, just a couple of comments.
I completely agree that this is a bad move, and thank you for trying to change the minds of the UKGC. However, I think you need to be careful with the press. Certain sections of the media hate gambling, and even more so, casino gambling, so I think you might have a problem getting anything published from certain papers, Daily Mail, Guardian etc.
A press campaign might backfire, simply for the reason, you are arguing against removing autospins, yet you already do that with a lot of your games. Is it NYX served ones that have never offered autospins?

2021-02-04.png

It won't take them long to find out about that, so, at the very least, you are going to need a well thought out and reasoned answer as to why you removed autospin from some of your games, yet are now arguing that it is irresponsible to do so.
You also had feature buys on some games that could allow players to lose £1000's in under a minute, they would likely attack you for that.
You use irresponsible streamers to promote your new games.

If I was a journalist for the guardian I could destroy your campaign overnight using those facts.

I would seriously stay away from the mainstream press, most people don't care about gambling, most people want it banned anyway, so I do think it will backfire unfortunately.

That isn't meant to sound like I'm having a go at you, I'm not, not at all, as I completely agree they should not be removed. I just think you need to be very careful dealing with the press.

Would it not be possible to speak to casinos, as many as possible, see if they could integrate a survey into the site, or at the very least, link to a surveymonkey one, where you could undertake a largescale survey. I am almost certain that would return a massive majority who agree that they shouldn't be removed, and that by doing so, it is the opposite of responsible gambling. It wouldn't take much coding to have a pop up when someone goes to the homepage of a casino, or the slots/games section of a large site like say Coral, then have either a quick description and a checkbox like you have above, or a link to an external survey, where, again, it's quick. You could even incentivise players by giving them 10 free spins or something for completing the survey. This is obviously a negative for the casinos, so I am sure most would take part if given the option. If not, then you could add a screen at the start of all your games with it on, meaning the casino don't have to actually do anything.

If the questions are worded correctly, and the results come out with the massive majority I think they will, then you could use that to get the sections of the press on your side, that would normally be against you.

Any thoughts on that?
 

Davey86

They make things hard for us because they can
MM
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Location
Newcastle upon tyne
Talking to the casinos first as a few of them have recently added ex MP’s to their boards who could actually help is a brilliant idea from Colin I’d take that route first
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Nothing really to add than what's been said above: points been made that you guys are hardly in a position of strength to be arguing anything in terms of RG to be honest. If i was the UKGC it'd be liked shooting ducks in a barrel.

Main Press? They won't care - Joe Bloggs on the street, even if they spend 10 quid a week on the Ponys, isn't going to give 2 hoots. On the theme of horses, that's a complete non-runner and i wouldn't even touch it.

This is the same UKGC who don't think things like max bets at 2 quid will see high rollers play elsewhere so i wouldn't hold out much hope and even having a cursory glance at consultations, with casino responses etc....they don't care.

You could literally sit down with Neil McArthur with hard data as to your position and it'd be pushed aside. Look at how easily he dismissed the PWC findings re offshore gambling.

Worth a punt i guess but, like Millionaire, even if you think you've a 99% audience agreement, it'll be the 1% that wins out.
 

bamberfishcake

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
Essex
Voted No but think 25 spin limit could be a compromise.

If players losing time and focus is the apparent issue then maybe 25 spins is better. Hard to lose focus or count over 25 spins.

Personally think its a good idea and thank you @Big Time Gaming

Anything done to help is better than nothing at all. It might raise awareness, at worst. I cant see the mainstream media being bothered to be honest.

Didnt care about Ladbrokes Coral ripping off millions so i dont see them being bothered about a game provider carrying out a survey and a counter proposal.
 

lewisnadasurf

Experienced Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2008
Location
Earth
All the UKGC need to implement (remember other players we can already only do 100 auto spins at a time, and are forced to put a loss limit in before the auto play starts!) is;

At the end of the auto play (25/50/100 spins)

The game tells you:

During your 100 spins
Your profit / loss is +£22.20
You have been playing for 23 minutes

That’s it. That’s all. That covers their “losing track” bollocks.
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
Isn't this already a done deal? I was reading up the other day and the consultation phase is already long gone and completed, and the UKGC decided autoplay still had to go.

(If you read the papers they've published on their website, the reasoning is really shaky and I don't agree with it at all.)
 

bamberfishcake

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Location
Essex
Think your right and its pretty much done.

Still think sometimes people stay quiet about their grievances when they should stand up and shout. Just because its done doesnt mean you have to give them your apathy and accept it laying down.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I moved Playford's derailing criticism to the Attic. It is unacceptable to attack someone and derail a thread. He has also been banned from participating in this thread as well. Just so you know.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
In my opinion, this is a slippery slope - and it's probably too late. The Nannies in the UK have taken over. They don't realize that every player has the tools to control their wagering. And this is a decision for the player to make. Some players use the auto spins to control their wagering (50 spins and I quit this game). You can also limit your losses and wins in auto spins. It goes to show the lords that be have no clue what they are doing.

All those casinos in Curacao have free spins. What do you think is going to happen?
 

Masquerade67

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 10, 2018
Location
South
I voted to keep them in - purely because I don't like having choices taken away from me when I'm capable of making them myself. If someone wants to gamble then they will. If slots become so tedious, then players will fall into the hands of the rogues that allow free-play or just go and lose more on table games.

Just use Autoit with a random inter-press delay (to avoid some sub-clause in the ToC that may outlaw automatic play)

:)
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
@Casinomeister and Meister Members,

This week the UKGC announced that all UK facing casinos have to remove autoplay from all games.

The reason for removal: "Autoplay - which can lead to players losing track of their play."
You do realize that they will never go back on this. :D

That is the unfortunate truth. The UKGC would rather push UK players to the offshore casinos instead of listening to them, asking them - the players - what they want.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
You do realize that they will never go back on this. :D

That is the unfortunate truth. The UKGC would rather push UK players to the offshore casinos instead of listening to them, asking them - the players - what they want.
If they get a backlash in the press then they might.
Autospins isn't a major thing, and if the press attack them for causing irresponsible gambling they might change it. Unlikely, but on this one, with the right form of attack and the right publicity, then it could change.
 

gonzo fonso

Full Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2020
Location
lincolnshire
i voted no,i know there are a few sites that havent got auto spins on btg games,i think ENERGY casino is one of them,if its already a done deal then nothing we can do,certainly myself i would not really enjoy it anymore,with covid19 and the world changing for me its all about CONTROL of human beings
 

Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
@Casinomeister and Meister Members,

This week the UKGC announced that all UK facing casinos have to remove autoplay from all games.

The reason for removal: "Autoplay - which can lead to players losing track of their play."

I've been building online slots for over 20 years and totally disagree with the reasoning on this. I want to gauge player opinion, as I think such an ill-informed move could lead to less controlled gameplay or dissuade players so much that they seek offshore unregulated options.

As set out by the current UKGC guidelines, Auto Spins allows players to count their sessions spins, especially when counting towards a feature average. Players can set up loss limits on the fly to keep their cash balance in check. Removing this functionality and just having a spin button with no measure of spend or spins played over time is far more predatory.

I've written a couple of pieces for the press, and I'm also considering creating a petition for players to cast their opinion. If there is a consensus from the poll below that this might be missed, I will create a petition and approach the UKGC and directly discuss it.

You are the players, and you should really have some say on this.

The other rulings for removal I totally agree with and are as follows:

· Features that speed up play or give the illusion of control over the outcome
· Slot spin speeds faster than 2.5 seconds
· Sounds or imagery which give the illusion of a win when the return is in fact equal to, or below, a stake

Other changes include:
· The permanent ban on reverse withdrawals – a function which allows consumers to re-gamble money they had previously requested to withdraw
· Operators must clearly display to the player their total losses or wins and time played during any online slots session.

Please vote accordingly

Cheers

Nik
Just a suggestion for you. If Autoplay is removed by UKGC, which is most likely. I recommend you instead can pre-buy up to 100 spin.
 

geordiecolin

Meister Member
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm4
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Location
Near Newcastle
If they get a backlash in the press then they might.
Autospins isn't a major thing, and if the press attack them for causing irresponsible gambling they might change it. Unlikely, but on this one, with the right form of attack and the right publicity, then it could change.
I believe that the UKGC appointed gamblers to their board to garner their input. How many of those are members of the many gambling forums out there?
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Just a suggestion for you. If Autoplay is removed by UKGC, which is most likely. I recommend you instead can pre-buy up to 100 spin.
I don't understand that?
They wouldn't be allowed to spin automatically so whats the point?
It's forcing a player to play a set amount of spins, which if he wins a big win on spin 1 he might want to stop and withdraw?
If you mean prebuy 100 then they play out automatically then I guarantee the UKGC will get it removed within a month.
Unless I've misread what you mean?
 

Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
I believe that the UKGC appointed gamblers to their board to garner their input. How many of those are members of the many gambling forums out there?
Yes they did, but mostly players with problems. The facts are not enough players that dont have problmes are reaching out to UKGC to express their concerns. Mostly when players reach out to UKGC is to complain on operators.
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
I believe that the UKGC appointed gamblers to their board to garner their input. How many of those are members of the many gambling forums out there?
I would love to know who these gamblers are who they speak to, as they have no idea what the majority want most the time.
 

Mr Wild

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2015
Location
Malta
I don't understand that?
They wouldn't be allowed to spin automatically so whats the point?
It's forcing a player to play a set amount of spins, which if he wins a big win on spin 1 he might want to stop and withdraw?
If you mean prebuy 100 then they play out automatically then I guarantee the UKGC will get it removed within a month.
Unless I've misread what you mean?
Its a big difference to pre-buy 100 spin for a selected amount then to have autoplay. Then you know what to spend, as long as its within same cost as maximum bet per spin. Basically you do it in away so its considered as 1 spin and not 100 spins.
 

geordiecolin

Meister Member
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm4
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Location
Near Newcastle
Yes they did, but mostly players with problems. The facts are not enough players that dont have problmes are reaching out to UKGC to express their concerns. Mostly when players reach out to UKGC is to complain on operators.
I was not aware that they are mostly made up from those with gambling issues. I would have hoped that they had found gamblers from a wider spectrum.
The UKGC seems to have become so large that it appears to me almost akin to a casino's live help in as much as only major issues filter up to the top so the top rarely get to know what the basic problems are
 

Davey86

They make things hard for us because they can
MM
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Location
Newcastle upon tyne
@Casinomeister now is the time to get in discussion/negotiations with a curacao casino getting accredited for when the time comes U.K. based players end up their,

what’s the point in casinos added ex member of parliaments to their boards? They don’t seem to be helping much?
 

geordiecolin

Meister Member
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm4
Joined
Jun 5, 2015
Location
Near Newcastle
@Casinomeister now is the time to get in discussion/negotiations with a curacao casino getting accredited for when the time comes U.K. based players end up their,

what’s the point in casinos added ex member of parliaments to their boards? They don’t seem to be helping much?
Lobbying and the pay offs from it is what career politicians are in the game for. It is what has protected the big UK based Casinos for decades.
I bet the likes of Videoslots look at the likes of Paddy Power with envy
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
webmeister
MM
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Its a big difference to pre-buy 100 spin for a selected amount then to have autoplay. Then you know what to spend, as long as its within same cost as maximum bet per spin. Basically you do it in away so its considered as 1 spin and not 100 spins.
Sorry but I completely disagree with that approach. Attempting to circumvent regulations never ends well, either they will ban that option within weeks, or they will respond with even tighter regulation.

The whole ethos of the UKGC recently seems to be massively limit players

Ban bonus buys
Loss limits on auto spins
Max 100 auto spins
Cash separate to bonuses

then the rumored changes

£100 mandatory loss limit per month
A limit on time spent playing
£2 max stake

There is no way on earth they will allow you to tie a player into a 100 x stake up front buying spins, and even less likely, allowing them to auto play.
 
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