Regarding Royal Vegas Casino and the Fortune Lounge Group

As a result of this thread we have now implemented a receipt process where players will receive a mail to confirm that their document have been received.

An improvement but you're still requesting personal information via unsecure email, so not much of an improvement for Players. :rolleyes:
 
None of the utility bills are in my name so I use my bank statement for verification. The reason for a utility bill is to just confirm that the person who's playing actually lives at the address given to the casino on registration, it's pretty standard.

I can understand the OP's frustration with being told that everything is ok and then being asked for something else, but the people who work on live chat for the most part don't know much about security. They can look and say "Oh yes, we asked for ID and a utility bill and you sent them, you're good to go." but then when it gets to security and verification department, they say ok wait a minute....

As I can see, there would be 2 red flags for the risk department, first is that your ID doesn't have a photo - which is why they need a picture of you holding it. If you look at what most casinos ask for, it's PHOTO ID and some casinos won't pay you without it. But some countries don't have photos on their government ID and so the workaround is a photo of the person actually holding the ID. But on top of that, the utility bill is in someone else's name, so I'm sure they had alarm bells ringing.

On a bright note though, now that it's all sorted out you don't have to worry about it again, and next time it will be smooth sailing. :thumbsup: You don't have to worry about FL trying to rip you off or keep your money if you won it legitimately, it's a drop in the bucket to them. As a matter of fact, they can probably just pay you from what I've lost there this last little while! ;)

Also you mentioned that you didn't have this trouble at other places - I'm not sure about the rest of them, but since you mentioned 32Red, they use a different process of verifying your ID. When I started playing there I didn't have to send any docs to them at all.


I think my first withdrawal from 32RED was about 2 years ago , the verification procedure went smooth .
I agree , if your ID does not have a photo , i think that for security reasons asking for a pic of a player hoding his ID is resonable . In my case my ID has a photo , no problems there , just saying ...

I know it`s just little over 100EUR . It`s still money though . I mean i would have done the same thing if we were talking about a 1000EUR withdrawal or more .

I guess i am ok now , and i won`t have to worry about future deposits / withdrawals . What matters is that we worked it out .

I would like to thank everyone for their contribution to this thread , and also Fortunelounge ( the REP ) for beeing helpful .
 
Cristian's withdrawal will be processed today and should be in his MoneyBooker's account by Friday latest.

I would like to explain why Player Support staff are not able to always give answers as to the status of documents received. For security purposes, all documents are received by our Player Security Department only as we need to contain the information in a controlled and secure environment. When these documents are received and evaluated, the Player Security staff note all these actions on the player's account and the support staff can only go by what appears on the account. Player Security do not communicate directly to players.

As a result of this thread we have now implemented a receipt process where players will receive a mail to confirm that their documents have been received.

I am curious as to why his mother had to be involved in all this. It's a big problem as many players keep this hobby to themselves, and do not want even their close family to know about it. There is nothing exceptional about the OP's arrangement, he lives with his mother, and she pays the bills.

It suggests that in cases such as this, players will be asked to send the personal information of someone they live with, even though this person has no casino account. I have only seen such requests before when more than one member of a household plays at the same casino, and the casino wants to see the documents of all players in the household when one of them requests a withdrawal.

Although CS only go by the notes, they imply in their answer that they know the documents are still being awaited, which players are understanding to mean not received, rather than just not noted on the account. Player security could help by ensuring that the account notes that CS see are updated as soon as the documents are received, and that in the case of non receipt, this is noted specifically rather than being implied by the lack of a note saying received. This whole thing is leading players to send documents multiple times, and complaining that each set gets "lost" until one finally seems to get through. Documents that are sent and then "lost in the system" make the player think that the systems in place are dangerously INsecure.

Would it be possible to automate the receipt process so that the CS can see also that Security have sent out the receipt to the player, so that at least CS can say "player security have received your email". Players should also be kept informed when the review process overruns the standard timeframe so that they don't think something has gone wrong.

Last question.

Is Fortune Lounge satisfied that email is a sufficiently secure means to send in these documents, rather than being a weak link in the chain as many of us think?
 
I have some issues with my ID, and I normally try to get my verification out of the way before I ever play at a casino. I find it's much easier to deal with all the back and forth requests for this and that if you're not stressing about "OMG I finally won and now I might not get paid!" stuff. :)

Anyhow, glad it's sorted, and congrats on your winnings. Oh and BTW I wasn't belittling the amount you won, I'd be happy with that withdrawal myself! I was just (unsuccessfully) trying to make the point that for any legitimate casino a cashout that size isn't going to break them.
 
Some MG casinos have a system , somewhere in the cashier where you have a form that lets you upload your documents . Can`t remember which ones but i believe that one of them is Lucky Nugget . At least it`s not sent via email which is a good thing .

L.E :

Yea , the Riverbelle group has it and i actually used it a couple of months ago ...
 
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An improvement but you're still requesting personal information via unsecure email, so not much of an improvement for Players. :rolleyes:

Baby steps;) At least players won't be wondering if the casino received their information or if it's floating around in cyberspace :) And the rep took it upon him/herself to get this implemented without one comment being mentioned from contributing members in this thread...

So, maybe for future ideas of what players would like to see implemented from this group, another thread should be started? It seems the rep is open to involvement (which is a rarity lately, JMO). BUT, keep in mind, my opinion here really doesn't matter since I can't play at this group even if I wanted to because of my location, and I stopped playing online awhile ago. Just think it's nice to see a rep becoming involved and taking some initiative.
 
I am curious as to why his mother had to be involved in all this. It's a big problem as many players keep this hobby to themselves, and do not want even their close family to know about it. There is nothing exceptional about the OP's arrangement, he lives with his mother, and she pays the bills.

As stated before, he could not supply us with a utility bill as he informed us he lives with his mother. Unfortunately I cannot elaborate on why we continued to insist on a copy of his mother's id and I did mention that we would only do this in extreme cases. Please trust me on this.

Although CS only go by the notes, they imply in their answer that they know the documents are still being awaited, which players are understanding to mean not received, rather than just not noted on the account. Player security could help by ensuring that the account notes that CS see are updated as soon as the documents are received, and that in the case of non receipt, this is noted specifically rather than being implied by the lack of a note saying received.

In the supplied chat the support agent does say that we have received the documentation. When documentation is received it is immediately noted on the account so an agent will be able to see that it has been received. What they cannot see is how far it is in the vetting process. When the documents have been verified another note is made and the agent can accurately answer questions regarding that. If additional documentation is required it is also noted and the agent can deal with it accordingly. An agent can only give speculative or incorrect answers if the notes are not read on the account.

Would it be possible to automate the receipt process so that the CS can see also that Security have sent out the receipt to the player, so that at least CS can say "player security have received your email".

The process will be automated and a note will automatically be placed on the account.


Players should also be kept informed when the review process overruns the standard timeframe so that they don't think something has gone wrong.

It is difficult to place a specific time frame on this process as time can vary according to the depth of the investigation. In most cases we need documentation due to licencing requirements and this process is quick. However, when we require documentation for fraud related investigations, this can take much longer.

Is Fortune Lounge satisfied that email is a sufficiently secure means to send in these documents, rather than being a weak link in the chain as many of us think?

We are, for the moment, satisfied that it is secure enough. The level of security on our e-mail is the same as internet banking - 128 SSL encryption. Players can also submit their documentation by uploading and submitting it via the casino software.
 
This still leaves players with a problem where they are not the head of the household they live in, and thus have nothing related to the household in their own name. Companies that supply the services do realise that all members of a household make use of, and somehow pay for, the service, but for billing purposes, there always has to be a nominated "head of household" on the account, and this is so that a contract can exist, with the nominated household member having the legal responsibilty for collecting payments and forwarding them to the company. It has nothing to do with ID or security, a building isn't a legal entity, so a service has to be billed to a person, even though it is often the collective responsibilty of a household. This means that anyone other than the head of household can only supply their own personal documents, they have nothing household related that has their name on it.

Far from being an exceptional circumstances, the chances are that a player is more often than not a person who is not regarded as head of household, but someone who lives there, a spouse, adult child, or even someone in a rented room. These players are destined to have more problems as they don't fit the idealised picture that the casino has of their player base. The problems they face seem almost unique to the casino industry. In the real world, government and business knows full well that most potential clients are not the head of household, so they will take personal documents as well as household related ones for any checks. Although casinos can be persuaded to follow suit, the concession sometimes has to be dragged out of them.

To the ordinary player, it appears they are being presented with a system that is designed to catch them out simply for living a "normal lifestyle", rather than occupying a property all on their own.

One reason I seem to speak strongly about this, yet never suffer the problems myself, is because I am a "greedy pig", occupying a 3 bedroom house all on my own, with of course every conceivable service billed to me in person, and no other household member who could be also gambling where I play, but keeping it from me. Despite this ideal setup, I have STILL had my credentials doubted and my account "investigated" by a few online casinos. I don't just think the current system screws up, I KNOW it does from personal experience. If the system was perfect, I would never face any doubt from any casino, so clearly it is imperfect, and as such, innocent players ARE getting screwed, and often not being able to find out why they keep getting flagged up as frauds.

I suspect the OP feels the same, he lives with his mum, so what, every casino he has played at so far don't have a problem with it, then right out of the blue, one casino's security department treats him like they are convinced there is something wrong. With no obvious difference between the last casino and the ones before, the player is bound to feel the problems have simply been conjoured up to wriggle out of paying. Often, players are being asked for documents that simply don't exist, and thus face pretending it does exist via photoshop, or walking away from money they won fair and square.

Every casino that tells a UK player to send in their "National identity card" will incur my wrath as there is no such document. In fact, the UK do not issue ANY photo bearing document on a universal basis. The driving license is only available to those qualified and medically fit to drive, and the passport is only issued to citizens who can demonstrate they are a UK citizen, and have a need to use it for the purpose for which it was intended. When I applied for mine in 2006, I had to say why I wanted one, they didn't just say "OK". I wonder what would happen if UK players told the clerk "this online casino needs me to scan it and send them a copy by email before they will pay me my money". Fortunately, I had won a trip to Berlin from an online casino, so I just told the clerk I had "won a weekend in Germany in a lucky draw", and I got the passport.

The main problem I have about the asking for the documents from the head of household is that this is a privacy issue. Players have the right NOT to tell friends and family what they do, yet to supply the documents of someone else means either asking for it and face them finding out their spouse or adult child gambles on the internet, or taking a copy and sending the document without consent. The casino gets their document, the player gets their money, but privacy is put at risk, or trust within a family is broken, not to mention possible legal consequences were something to go wrong in the process, such as the document leaking out and being used fraudulently, and it's owner wondering how the hell it can happen to a document that has sat in a draw since before the internet was invented, and never been seen outside the family, let alone copied.

People's details are leaking out everywhere, and they wonder how come. It seems every call centre in India knows who I am, where I live, my phone number, and sometimes even more. Somewhere, my details have been leaked on an industrial scale, but I have scanned and sent a hell of a lot of this over the internet to one industry in particular since 2005. For me, this is the glaringly obvious source of the leak, even though it is far more likely that the leak has come from a big UK corporation, or even the government itself.

Casinos may be paranoid about fraud, but players are getting paranoid too, about their personal details leaking everywhere no matter what is done to stop it.

A recent forum thread asked the question "How could Liberty Slots know so much about me, I have never played there, they just launched, and they say they are nothing to do with the former English Harbour group". To this day, they are sticking to this story, even though nobody believes it. Can players REALLY trust this industry to keep our details secure, and to themselves, after all, any operator can SAY they are the most secure in the business, yet when they were operating, English Harbour were making these same claims.

Just as casinos now seem to regard many players with a degree of suspicion, players regard many casinos with an equal measure of supsicion, so when something out of the ordinary happens, it is easy to jump to the conclusion "I am going to get screwed", and react accordingly.
 
To the ordinary player, it appears they are being presented with a system that is designed to catch them out simply for living a "normal lifestyle", rather than occupying a property all on their own.

I suspect the OP feels the same, he lives with his mum, so what, every casino he has played at so far don't have a problem with it, then right out of the blue, one casino's security department treats him like they are convinced there is something wrong. With no obvious difference between the last casino and the ones before, the player is bound to feel the problems have simply been conjoured up to wriggle out of paying. Often, players are being asked for documents that simply don't exist, and thus face pretending it does exist via photoshop, or walking away from money they won fair and square.

Good points, this is where a rating system comes into play for approved player documents.

If the OP's documents had already been approved by X number of casino's and FL could have seen this data, Example: Players document approved by (6) sites, therefore diminishing the need for such additional requests.

If the OP were to remove, or alter the rated doc., they'd lose their rating and start over again thus triggering a higher level of investigation..
 
Every casino that tells a UK player to send in their "National identity card" will incur my wrath as there is no such document. In fact, the UK do not issue ANY photo bearing document on a universal basis. The driving license is only available to those qualified and medically fit to drive, and the passport is only issued to citizens who can demonstrate they are a UK citizen, and have a need to use it for the purpose for which it was intended. When I applied for mine in 2006, I had to say why I wanted one, they didn't just say "OK".
You don't need to give a reason why you want a British passport.
 
As stated before, he could not supply us with a utility bill as he informed us he lives with his mother. Unfortunately I cannot elaborate on why we continued to insist on a copy of his mother's id and I did mention that we would only do this in extreme cases. Please trust me on this

Now, I can think of pretty much only one reason why they requested the mother's ID. I'm sure you can also, but I guess there's no copy in that is there.

Why do you keep going on about it?

The OP provided what was required and the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. The casino explained why they requested the mother's ID in the amount of detail that they were able to do in a public forum.....do you think that every casino should lay every single detail out in public just to satisfy your curiosity? Just because the precise details are not posted, it does not mean that there was insufficient grounds for making the request.....unless there is a legal angle that you're coming from :)D)

The OP was happy to provide what FL wanted. Whether it was with the permission of his mother or not is between him and his mother.

every casino he has played at so far don't have a problem with it,

Do you think that might possibly be because his mother doesn't have accounts with those other casinos? It appears the issue was not with the OP's documents being fraudulent or dodgy in any way, but rather that they were somehow connected with another person/player. In a case like this, a rating system would be worthless.

In my experience, FL are and always have been a stand-up operator with a history of fairness. When the FL rep tells me the circumstances were "extreme", I tend to take their word for it. If it were an error or something that should not have happened, experience dictates that FL would have admitted such and apologised.

IMO some are just continuing to kick a dead horse.

With regards to UK photo ID......if it is possible to obtain one (and it seems it is), then UK residents who want to play online should obtain one. It isn't the player's fault that these are not issued as standard, but neither is it the operator's fault. If it is going to save a whole lot of hassle and possibly even confiscated winnings, then surely it is worth the (relatively small) outlay....the argument I have heard about "it is too expensive to expect players to purchase" is ridiculous, since they are obviously gambling, so have money to spare it would seem.

It is also important to note that just about every casino states in their terms and condition that photo ID is required for withdrawal of winnings. So, any UK player who reads the terms would know that they need to get some. It's not like they don't tell you until afterwards. It is one of those issues where individuals need to take some responsibility for themselves, and either a) get some photo ID, or b) don't gamble online. I just don't see the problem.
 
I don't have any utility bills in my name either, but I've been a verified player at FL for years. When I first sent in my docs, if I'd sent in a utility bill in Ray's name I certainly would have expected the security department to do some doublechecking too.

Interestingly though, I use a bank statement to verify my address, and one of my bank accounts is a joint account so it has another name listed with mine and nobody has a problem with that at all.
 
It doesn't appear to me that this was anything more than verifying the OP/Player address. The OP sent in a doc. showing proof of address which reflected his mother's name, obviously no fraud intended. They asked for proof of address and it was provided, then questioned due to moms name.

Post #49 clearly states: Cristian's withdrawal will be processed today and should be in his MoneyBooker's account by Friday latest.

VWM made a valid point as to why 3rd party documents are required. BTY - Rating systems do work or CM just wasted a lot of time, JMO.

I'm sure this is a fine group but email isn't secure and I'd be happy to debate it elsewhere.

We are, for the moment, satisfied that it is secure enough. The level of security on our e-mail is the same as internet banking - 128 SSL encryption.

Fact is email must be encrypted by the sender and recipient. ;)
 
Now, I can think of pretty much only one reason why they requested the mother's ID. I'm sure you can also, but I guess there's no copy in that is there.

Why do you keep going on about it?

The OP provided what was required and the issue was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. The casino explained why they requested the mother's ID in the amount of detail that they were able to do in a public forum.....do you think that every casino should lay every single detail out in public just to satisfy your curiosity? Just because the precise details are not posted, it does not mean that there was insufficient grounds for making the request.....unless there is a legal angle that you're coming from :)D)

The OP was happy to provide what FL wanted. Whether it was with the permission of his mother or not is between him and his mother.



Do you think that might possibly be because his mother doesn't have accounts with those other casinos? It appears the issue was not with the OP's documents being fraudulent or dodgy in any way, but rather that they were somehow connected with another person/player. In a case like this, a rating system would be worthless.

In my experience, FL are and always have been a stand-up operator with a history of fairness. When the FL rep tells me the circumstances were "extreme", I tend to take their word for it. If it were an error or something that should not have happened, experience dictates that FL would have admitted such and apologised.

IMO some are just continuing to kick a dead horse.

With regards to UK photo ID......if it is possible to obtain one (and it seems it is), then UK residents who want to play online should obtain one. It isn't the player's fault that these are not issued as standard, but neither is it the operator's fault. If it is going to save a whole lot of hassle and possibly even confiscated winnings, then surely it is worth the (relatively small) outlay....the argument I have heard about "it is too expensive to expect players to purchase" is ridiculous, since they are obviously gambling, so have money to spare it would seem.

It is also important to note that just about every casino states in their terms and condition that photo ID is required for withdrawal of winnings. So, any UK player who reads the terms would know that they need to get some. It's not like they don't tell you until afterwards. It is one of those issues where individuals need to take some responsibility for themselves, and either a) get some photo ID, or b) don't gamble online. I just don't see the problem.

In fact, many state "Government issued ID" as their criteria, and in the UK there is no "Government issued photo ID" because the UK has stuck to using the forms of ID it has relied on for years. We have birth certificated, National Insurance cards, health cards, etc. None of these have ever been issued with a photo. They are being phased out now and are being replaced by electronic databases, rather than a more robust ID card. The electronic databases are considered better than a physical ID card because they are dynamically updated, and can provide far more in depth checking because a physical card can only hold a limited amount of data, whatever can be printed on it is all you get. There is more info on a full birth certificate. A photo is largely pointless for a casino in any case, they are never going to SEE the player in person like a land based establishment, so can never know if the photo is a true likeness or not. They have to use other clues and checks, and these can just as easily be done on the document information with or without a photo stuck on it, therefore it shouldn't be a problem that UK players have paper ID rather than a Euopean style national identity card.

As for the passport, I WAS asked why I wanted it, so there has to be a reason behind it, and I am assuming that the home secretary has the right to deny a passport to anyone who gives a bad reason for having it. Whether it actually happens is a different matter, maybe it's a case of the government asking for information just for the sake of it, rather than it being necessary.

Once you HAVE a passport, it's much easier to keep it current, and although expensive, they are valid for 10 years. The big problem is getting your first one, it is not simply a matter of nipping down the local government offices, handing over your documents and the money, and getting the passport in a few days. It can be a lengthy process, and now involves travelling to one of around 6 centres in the country, getting a reference from a "professional person", and then waiting 6 weeks for it to arrive. Most UK players who don't go abroad will not have one, they will first need one when they withdraw, and in many cases it's "why now, I have never needed one in the 6 years I have been playing so far".

Rather than being in the terms, this information should be spelled out in big print on the welcome email after joining, with a passage covering what players need to do NOW if their government has not issued them a photo ID as routine. It should add that if in doubt as to whether their documents will be deemed suitable, players should get themselves verified before making their first deposit, rather than face disappointment when they withdraw. It should be done properly, not just some CS agent saying "Oh, that'll be fine" and then the player finding out later that it is NOT fine as far as the cashier's office is concerned.

All this STILL only covers you if you are head of household with responsibilty for the bills. If not, it involves concocting a means to get an acceptable letter from an approved source to show to the casino, and this is not always made clear in the terms. It says "utility bill" without saying why, so players take it literally, and will send the household bill, which is useless if it isn't in their name.

If players had more guidance, the first lot of documents they send will be the right ones, and they wont keep getting asked for more and more.

There is also this problem of players being told their document is "unclear" or "blurred" and to send it again. This can be frustrating because the player pops it into a scanner, and the machine scans it. All the user does is click a button or a mouse, and out comes the document ready to send. If it is "unclear", what are they meant to do, click harder when scanning it:rolleyes: Better feedback is needed, such as suggesting what may have gone wrong in the scanning process, and how they might make it better. The other one is "can't open it". Of course this has scorn poured all over the casino that claims it can't even open an image file to look at it when this is a native ability of a Windows or MAC OS. Players need to know WHY, or maybe what software they are using so that they can try it themselves.
 
I can confirm that i received my winnings today without having to make another deposit . I feel alot better now that they finally verified my documents . And once again id like to thank the REP for beeing helpful and everyone here that shared their point of view .
 
It doesn't appear to me that this was anything more than verifying the OP/Player address. The OP sent in a doc. showing proof of address which reflected his mother's name, obviously no fraud intended. They asked for proof of address and it was provided, then questioned due to moms name.

Post #49 clearly states: Cristian's withdrawal will be processed today and should be in his MoneyBooker's account by Friday latest.

VWM made a valid point as to why 3rd party documents are required. BTY - Rating systems do work or CM just wasted a lot of time, JMO.

I'm sure this is a fine group but email isn't secure and I'd be happy to debate it elsewhere.



Fact is email must be encrypted by the sender and recipient. ;)

I'm sure the point was valid........chances are when you make hundreds each day that some will be.

FL stated they only request such things in extreme cases, and in my experience they are pretty reliable. We don't know exactly what the issue was with the mothers ID I.e. whether she had her own account etc, but obviously something set alarm bells ringing.

FWIW, I didn't say ratings systems were worthless in general, just in cases like this I.e. the player's ID might be faultless, but if they're connected to other accounts or players it makes little difference.

@VWM

If a UK player needs to tell the issuing authority WHY they want a passport (and I doubt they actually do), then they just need to say "I'm thinking of going abroad". Unless one believes they're going to monitor your every move for the next ten years to make sure you go, then I think you're pretty safe. It's a total non-issue. If UK players want hassle-free cashouts, then they should do what everyone else has to do and get photo ID....like a passport. If it costs money, then it costs money. My drivers licence isn't free.

If the forum was clogged with UK players being refused winnings based on insufficient ID, then maybe there would be a case for exploring other avenues.....but it isn't. The issue appears maybe a couple of times a year, and often turns out to be a fraudster anyway. It is, as I said, a non-issue.

Are you sure that you didn't volunteer why you wanted the passport, so that you could tell them about your fruitie wins? :D

Anyhow, the case is closed and the OP is happy. I'm off to find issues with more relevance, like the price of fish.
 
I'm sure the point was valid........chances are when you make hundreds each day that some will be.

FL stated they only request such things in extreme cases, and in my experience they are pretty reliable. We don't know exactly what the issue was with the mothers ID I.e. whether she had her own account etc, but obviously something set alarm bells ringing.

FWIW, I didn't say ratings systems were worthless in general, just in cases like this I.e. the player's ID might be faultless, but if they're connected to other accounts or players it makes little difference.

@VWM

If a UK player needs to tell the issuing authority WHY they want a passport (and I doubt they actually do), then they just need to say "I'm thinking of going abroad". Unless one believes they're going to monitor your every move for the next ten years to make sure you go, then I think you're pretty safe. It's a total non-issue. If UK players want hassle-free cashouts, then they should do what everyone else has to do and get photo ID....like a passport. If it costs money, then it costs money. My drivers licence isn't free.

If the forum was clogged with UK players being refused winnings based on insufficient ID, then maybe there would be a case for exploring other avenues.....but it isn't. The issue appears maybe a couple of times a year, and often turns out to be a fraudster anyway. It is, as I said, a non-issue.

Are you sure that you didn't volunteer why you wanted the passport, so that you could tell them about your fruitie wins? :D

Anyhow, the case is closed and the OP is happy. I'm off to find issues with more relevance, like the price of fish.

They DO if you have a beard and go to certain countries.
 
I'm fairly sure that you aren't on any kind of watchlist......save for the "Excessive use of forum space" one.

The UK citizens are the most watched in the world. CCTV is everywhere, vehicles are tracked wherever they go by ANPR cameras mounted on all major roads, and London has it's "Ring of Steel", which is really a ring of intense remote surveillance so that NO-ONE enters or leaves the city without that fact being recorded.
 
The UK citizens are the most watched in the world. CCTV is everywhere, vehicles are tracked wherever they go by ANPR cameras mounted on all major roads, and London has it's "Ring of Steel", which is really a ring of intense remote surveillance so that NO-ONE enters or leaves the city without that fact being recorded.

Yeah I know all that.....my point was that they won't be watching someone specifically who just applied for a passport and said they were "thinking of going overseas soon" to make sure they actually go.

I didn't say they couldn't track you, just that they wouldn't.
 
Yeah I know all that.....my point was that they won't be watching someone specifically who just applied for a passport and said they were "thinking of going overseas soon" to make sure they actually go.

I didn't say they couldn't track you, just that they wouldn't.

They WILL, but the data will only be looked at if there is reason to. Highly unlikely they will worry about not leaving the country, it is travel to certain countries and stays beyond what can be regarded as an annual holiday they are looking for.

What is not at all clear is this whole issue of passport scans being sent around the world by email. They are issuing some strong warnings about letting hotel staff take a copy of a passport, or keep it behind the desk for "safe keeping in their own secure safe". They also warn that under no circumstances should passports be handed over as a "deposit" for equipment hire after a scam related to the hire of jet skis.

This attitude doesn't seem consistent with them feeling there is no problem sending copies to offshore businesses via email.
 
They WILL, but the data will only be looked at if there is reason to. Highly unlikely they will worry about not leaving the country, it is travel to certain countries and stays beyond what can be regarded as an annual holiday they are looking for.

What is not at all clear is this whole issue of passport scans being sent around the world by email. They are issuing some strong warnings about letting hotel staff take a copy of a passport, or keep it behind the desk for "safe keeping in their own secure safe". They also warn that under no circumstances should passports be handed over as a "deposit" for equipment hire after a scam related to the hire of jet skis.

This attitude doesn't seem consistent with them feeling there is no problem sending copies to offshore businesses via email.

You know what I meant about "track" :rolleyes:

If you tell the passport office you're going overseas and you don't go, they won't be sending the boys 'round.

I think you and I could have some very fruitful discussions, if only you would accept that conceding that someone else has a point, admitting an error and giving others credit is not a sign of weakness or intellectual inferiority.

Anyway, apologies for the derail peeps. Carry on.
 
As I am awaiting the account details, I am not able to accurately comment on this specific case.

However, I can assure you that there has to be a very good reason why he was requested to supply his mother's identification. She had to be linked to the account in some way - either by him using her credit card or something else.

As soon as I hear from Cristian I will report in the forum.

Regards

Wim

So, any news about this matter?
This is something I am quite interested to know about, given the notoriety of the group.
Cheers
 

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