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Reef casino rigged?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Freudian, Jul 6, 2004.

    Jul 6, 2004
  1. Freudian

    Freudian Dormant account

    Location:
    europe
    Everything seemed normal. I was a bit up with 1/3 of the wagering requirements for the bonus to go. Then the most insane stuff started happening.

    In the next 96 hands I lost 55 betting units (out of 113 units betted). I lost 70 hands, pushed four and won 24. If I calculate everything correctly, I was -4.85 SD down for these 96 hands. The odds of having a 96 hand-session with as poor result as this is something like 1 in 200000 or more (im sure someone can calculate this exactly).

    Obviously now im up sh*t creek, still having to wager 1500$ at a casino I am convinced doesn't deal a fair game. Suggestions?
     
  2. Jul 6, 2004
  3. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    Hi Freudian, suggestion, take your lumps now and do not return to any casino that you suspect of running a rigged game. You'll be much better off in the long term. Have a good one.
     
  4. Jul 6, 2004
  5. Freudian

    Freudian Dormant account

    Location:
    europe
    I try to keep track of the bad ones and avoid them. But this is a sistercasino to Casino on Net, which I have tried previously and thought was dealing a fair game.

    Of course there is a minimal chance I just was very very very unlucky.:)
     
  6. Jul 6, 2004
  7. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    There is no such casino - you mean "Reef Club". It helps to have at least the name correct in the title. Without the CON reference I'd have been none the wiser.

    Assuming 4.8 SDs is 200,000 to one, then you's need a random sample of 200,095 hands to expect one such run of 96 hands. That's within spitting distance of my last two Gambling Federation experiences, and I'd say you have valid cause for concern.

    Oh no, hang on, silly me: take a look at the bottom right of the ReefClub homepage and lo and behold, what do we see? "Certified by Ecogra".

    So Ecogra, via PWC, have analysed the Cassava software and declared it "fair". And also bear in mind that, within ONE DAY of opening, two years ago, ReefClub tried to screw a bunch of players out of their winnings after their first play:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    What a joke Ecogra is. Crook casinos, probably crooked software, rubber stamped by Ecogra. I hope nobody invests that nonsense with any credibility.

    Freudian: have ReefClub issue you your game logs and post them here where they can be looked at by those posters who might be in a position to draw some meaningful conclusions.
     
  8. Jul 6, 2004
  9. Freudian

    Freudian Dormant account

    Location:
    europe
    I finished my wagering requirements and I did pretty well in the last hands. So I am in the strange position of being able to cash out more than I deposited (with bonus) despite suspecting everything isn't kosher with the software. But that doesn't change the fact that during my playing there I had a session that is highly unlikely to happen. And that is always a reason to be weary when we talk about online casinos. And even earlier my eyebrows were raised a bit by five straight blackjacks for the dealer. So basically we have a casino that was ok 85% of the time and insanely rigged 15% of the time. In a way I would be more comfortable calling them out if it felt rigged non-stop. But my wallet surely is grateful for those 85%.

    I'll get my money out and request logs. I just checked it through the in-program log function. The bad session ~100 hundred hands isn't such a big sample of course. But to reach almost -5 SD in so few hands the result has to be very extraordinary.

    (if the admininstrator want to change the topic to say Reef Club, it would be appreciated).
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2004
  10. Jul 6, 2004
  11. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Five consecutive dealer blackjacks? At ReefClub?

    That's a 4,000,000 to one shot. Assuming you're not exaggerating, PLEASE post those logs.
     
  12. Jul 6, 2004
  13. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    "I'll get my money out and request logs. I just checked it through the in-program log function. The bad session ~100 hundred hands isn't such a big sample of course. But to reach almost -5 SD in so few hands the result has to be very extraordinary."

    Yes, Freudian - please make all of your logs public and asap so that the genuine experts here can evaluate the situation. Some unbiased assessment and the facts will make a welcome change from Caruso's "the sky is falling" style posts.

    "What a joke Ecogra is. Crook casinos, probably crooked software, rubber stamped by Ecogra. I hope nobody invests that nonsense with any credibility."

    A typically irresponsible and inaccurate statement.
     
  14. Jul 6, 2004
  15. Freudian

    Freudian Dormant account

    Location:
    europe
    Some small corrections. The in-casino viewer is buggy so it doesn't always show 8 new hands when pressing "next" or "previous" (basically every even 25 it repeats the hands to make the page end on an even 25/50/75/00). So when going through them again it is just 87 hands. I am down 45 betting units in those hands. I noticed two errors I made (not hitting on 12 vs 3, and standing on 16 vs 7 once) so that probably would have brought the result down to -41. Sorry for the mistakes there, I didn't expect the in game log viewer to show some results twice on a few pages. Unfortunately it only extends back 750 hands so the five BJ in a row can't be viewed that way. Have to get them by normal log.

    So -41 betting units in 87 hands (100 betting units wagered) gives us -3,82 SD (somewhere around 1 in 10000 chance of that happening), which is closing in on "really really bad luck" territory and away from astronomical. Anyway, I'll have the logs available in a while.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2004
  16. Jul 16, 2004
  17. Freudian

    Freudian Dormant account

    Location:
    europe
    When asking for logs I just got sent some summary statistics (and 50$ got credited to my account for some reason) and when once again requesting logs I got the following message.

    "Thank you for contacting Reef Club Casino.

    xxxx, to view your individual hands please go to
    "history" in the lobby. You can find the last 750 results of each game you have played there. This is the only records that we keep and it is very easy to access .

    xxxx, I hope this is helpful to you. If you have any specific
    enquiry we will be happy to check it for you if you give us the time and date
    and any other relevant information.

    Should you have any further comments or queries please feel free to
    contact us at any time. We are here for you 24 hours a day, everyday
    and are always happy to help."


    So they don't keep logs for your play, which is pretty unusual. I did grab screenshots of all the logs for this bad run if anyone wants it. It is a giant .jpg. Unfortunately the five BJs in a row for the dealer is forever lost since I didn't think of grabbing a screenie of the log when it happened and did play a few thousand hands since then.
     
  18. Jul 16, 2004
  19. murder1

    murder1 <a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar

    Dude don't go through the trouble of download and posting such a large file. Just take your money out and leave. You were fortune enough to survive the rigging. Now get to digging (out).
     
  20. Jul 16, 2004
  21. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Of course they have the logs, they just don't want YOU to have them - for obvious reasons. If they didn't have them, how the hell do they then supply them to PWC for the monthly "verification"? What a con job.

    Tell them if they refuse to supply them you're going to file an Ecogra complaint. Then, if they refuse again, file it and keep this thread updated. I'm sure Jetset can lend you a hand. It's your absolute right to access the logs of your own play, and they're absolutely trying to put one over you here.
     
  22. Jul 16, 2004
  23. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Do not accept a situation if you are not happy with the treatment you received at the casino. Reef Club is an eCOGRA seal holder as part of CON, and as such it is required to comply with eGAP requirements.

    If you have been unable to obtain satisfaction at casino level, then go to the ecogra site at You must register/login in order to see the link. and launch an online dispute. The Fair Gaming Advocate will investigate the issue and report back to you within a short timespan.
     
  24. Jul 16, 2004
  25. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    What he said.
     
  26. Jul 17, 2004
  27. hahacasino

    hahacasino Banned User - too annoying

    Occupation:
    enjoy life
    Location:
    us
    every casino is rigged, don't even play!

    play free games see if you can win.

    if not, why risk real money? are you a banker? or a broker?

    ic, ur a casino webmaster, make lots of easy $$$$$$$$$$, cool! :lolup:
     
  28. Jul 17, 2004
  29. Freudian

    Freudian Dormant account

    Location:
    europe
    After being lied to, they now sent me the logs. But with the players and dealers cards deleted. Do they think I am an idiot? The HTML they sent even had columns named "players cards" "dealers cards"...

    Im seriously flabbergasted about the treatment I am getting from this casino.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2004
  30. Jul 17, 2004
  31. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Occupation:
    Casino apologist
    Location:
    England
    Freudian, this was a rogue joint from the word go so don't waste your time being flabbergasted - do as has been suggested.
     
  32. Jul 17, 2004
  33. bethug

    bethug Banned User - Winner of the "<a href="http://www.c

    This is very sad, i will not play at casino on net, until reef club clear this up :(
     
  34. Jul 18, 2004
  35. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Freudian - before this goes any further lodge a complaint.
     
  36. Jul 18, 2004
  37. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    Hi Jet;

    Yes Freudian, I think this would be an ideal case for eCOGRA to sink its' teeth into and at this point I really do not think that any intervention on behalf of eCOGRA can hurt.
     
  38. Jul 19, 2004
  39. hahacasino

    hahacasino Banned User - too annoying

    Occupation:
    enjoy life
    Location:
    us
    This is very sad, i will not play at casino on net, until reef club clear this up
    __________________

    too bad you are just a sand on the shore, i hope this thread on yahoo news headline!

    ********* dirty casinos, group ****************** :lolup:
     

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