Redflush not paying me my winnings details inside

raul1

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Location
Mexico city
Redflush not paying. They claim I play against their terms and condition.

I checked their terms before I played all I did was not anything even close to bonus abuse as they claim.

I played Blackjack Flat bet more than 1000 hands if I remember well, never changed the bet.

Redflush refuse to pay more than 1700 USD.

They changed their website recently and they also changed a small part of their terms.

The max bet was reduced from 30% to 25%.

I told live chat , whats going on, how can you apply new rule on me, they said we have another term, that the casino may apply new terms whenever we want.

I asked for a script of the live chat to my EMail, they refused, so sorry I can´t show you in their words what they said, if they gave me the script I would show their words
 

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
Unfortunately, most casinos DO have this in their terms and conditions and they will also state that it is up to the player to periodically check for these updates.

This is the first line in their T&Cs...
1. 1.The Player becomes party to and agrees to abide by all of the rules, terms and conditions specified by the casino, including any revisions that may take place periodically. The player specifically agrees to abide by the rules of eligibility as set out above.

Have you tried to contact their rep and "talk" things out first? It may be a simple miscommunication. Next, if you have and things just aren't working out, you MAY have grounds for a PAB (pitch-A-bitch). Make sure you read all the rules for the PAB if you decide to go that route. Either way, good luck in your endeavors.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
Unfortunately, most casinos DO have this in their terms and conditions and they will also state that it is up to the player to periodically check for these updates.

This is the first line in their T&Cs...
1. 1.The Player becomes party to and agrees to abide by all of the rules, terms and conditions specified by the casino, including any revisions that may take place periodically. The player specifically agrees to abide by the rules of eligibility as set out above.
However, changing the T&C applicable to a bonus while the player is trying to satisfy the WR is very rogue behaviour.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Timing is important. The op should state when the original terms were in place. Were they there when he signed up and he only played weeks later when it is possible the terms had changed or did he read the terms and played almost immediately. More details should be divulged. It would also help if the op could state the amount per hand he was betting and the bonus amount he obtained. In case there is a dispute on the time frame of the change of terms the casino could well pay the op his winnings on a pro-rata basis ie if the player were playing a bet limited to 25% max instead of what he was playing. That could mean he could be paid winnings of say around 1400.
 

threescatters

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Location
UK
This is in non bonus forum so I guess you won without a bonus, why would they care how much you were betting without a bonus?
 

raul1

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Location
Mexico city
I thought bonus complaint is problems with getting bonuses and not payment issues

Since the account is closed and casino would not answer my request for live chat transcript, I assume I have to use my memory only, I am 99% sure I placed 30 a hand in Blackjack for around 1000 hands never changing the bet while the deposit was 100 and the bonus was 111

This was according to terms I read, in the terms they wrote, cant bet big and then small or small and then big, cant play marginal bet, can´t do that and can´t do this, I did not play like that.
 

bAdSmoker

Experienced Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
USA
Yea, I hate when I walk into a casino and have to read over their terms and conditions all the time, before I get ready to play some black jack at a table, very frustrating.

Ohhh wait...
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I thought bonus complaint is problems with getting bonuses and not payment issues

Since the account is closed and casino would not answer my request for live chat transcript, I assume I have to use my memory only, I am 99% sure I placed 30 a hand in Blackjack for around 1000 hands never changing the bet while the deposit was 100 and the bonus was 111

This was according to terms I read, in the terms they wrote, cant bet big and then small or small and then big, cant play marginal bet, can´t do that and can´t do this, I did not play like that.

If the 25% rule was in place when you claimed the bonus, your bets would have been against the terms. If the 30% rule was in place, you did NOT violate this term.

The standards for an accredited casino here are that in situations like this they should pay your winnings that were made within the bonus terms, and THEN bonus ban you or lock your account.

If you are sure your bets did not violate the terms when you claimed the bonus, you should submit a PAB next week after contacting the Red Flush rep right now with a more detailed case including your account number and your memory of how you were betting.

Remember, even if only ONE bet (the first one, for example) violated the terms, you have still broken the rules whatever style of play followed.

It is unwise to try to beat bonus offers with Blackjack play, as this strategy is one of the oldest, and would immediately draw attention to your account, indicating that you were unlikely to carry on playing after beating the welcome bonus.

It is far better to play a welcome bonus through on slots, you can STILL win, but the casino will find it next to impossible to accuse a slots player of "abusive play". Some operators have tried this on in order to void a slots win, but they tend to get a battering on this forum for this kind of feeble excuse.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
So if I am not mistaken you thought you are only allowed to place a bet of no more than $33.3 for the game ie 30% of $111 whereas they are now claiming the bet should be no more than $27.75. Well, you should have made it clearer so we could understand. I still believe the timing is important. If you read the terms long before you deposited and didnt revisit them before playing its really your fault for not ensuring you complied with the terms. On the other hand, if you played right after you read the terms and it still stated 30% then they cannot argue that the terms have now changed. However, if the dates are confusing and both parties cannot come to a concensus as to when the terms were changed etc. then you could come to a compromise by applying the following formula: winnings x 27/30 with $27 being the max permissable bet and $30 being your actual bet size. The casino should understand that if the terms are altered right after or just before the player started playing they are bound to have grievances. You cannot simply state that a player must abide by any changes in the ts and cs especially after players have commenced betting.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
Sorry max, I thought there may have been a language/translation mixup
(was dealing with a headache yesterday and was going to PM this person a link to the rep and forgot, I hope they got it straightened out.)
 

raul1

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Location
Mexico city
this is the issue ,please see carefully

The casino replied that the term was changed before I played
: I claim I saw in my own eyes 30%
: They agree the terms were changed, how can we move from that point, I say I saw 30% casino say you should have seen 25%, I checked the terms, I am not blind, the difference is around 2 per hand in blackjack, is that a reason to close an account , to conficscate winnings in full ? this behavior is a behavior of a rogue casino, why didnt they ask me what terms did I see ?
: How can we proceed from that point that casino say not true, say terms were changed AFTER I played
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
The casino replied that the term was changed before I played
: I claim I saw in my own eyes 30%
: They agree the terms were changed, how can we move from that point, I say I saw 30% casino say you should have seen 25%, I checked the terms, I am not blind, the difference is around 2 per hand in blackjack, is that a reason to close an account , to conficscate winnings in full ? this behavior is a behavior of a rogue casino, why didnt they ask me what terms did I see ?
: How can we proceed from that point that casino say not true, say terms were changed AFTER I played

How about showing a little respect and waiting for the casino rep to address your issue.
 

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
@raul1, did you contact wayneredreturns or the redflushhost? maxd has supplied the links to them in his post, just click on them. I'm sure they will work with you to get this straightened out. please be patient as it now the weekend and some of the reps don't come here on the weekend.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
The casino replied that the term was changed before I played
: I claim I saw in my own eyes 30%
: They agree the terms were changed, how can we move from that point, I say I saw 30% casino say you should have seen 25%, I checked the terms, I am not blind, the difference is around 2 per hand in blackjack, is that a reason to close an account , to conficscate winnings in full ? this behavior is a behavior of a rogue casino, why didnt they ask me what terms did I see ?
: How can we proceed from that point that casino say not true, say terms were changed AFTER I played

This is pure bickering over an issue both parties cannot agree on. The least you could do is state when you saw the 30% and the date of your deposit. If the casino can prove the terms were changed to 25% before you deposited and played you can say goodbye to your $$$$.
 

raul1

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Location
Mexico city
i did wait , I put in the forum the reply i sent the host in private msg

[I show respect, I already got an answer from the redflush casino host by private message, so why you say I dont wait, I waited and I got this answer which I dont accept
 

catcat941

catcat
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
sofia
think of Redflush as SOMETHING THAT

you took home with you somethings that when you look back , you would rather

flush it in a particular place . why did you got involved with them in the first place ,

if you look carefully at the casino you will notice a very small bonus , and not easy terms . they used to have a 50 plus 200 when they were new , now you buy 100 get 100 ,

than you win , than you dont get payed . Plenty of casinos arround that wouldnt give you that 2 % thing when you cashout .
 

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
you took home with you somethings that when you look back , you would rather

flush it in a particular place . why did you got involved with them in the first place ,

if you look carefully at the casino you will notice a very small bonus , and not easy terms . they used to have a 50 plus 200 when they were new , now you buy 100 get 100 ,

than you win , than you dont get payed . Plenty of casinos arround that wouldnt give you that 2 % thing when you cashout .

I'm not sure how you are helping? :confused:


raul1... you may want to consider a PAB. You've done the first step by contacting the rep. Now you need to read the FAQs...
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

Then follow these steps for the PAB (pitch-A-bitch, the free service offered here)...
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

Remember, if you decide to PAB, do NOT post further. Good luck!
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I'm not sure how you are helping? :confused:


raul1... you may want to consider a PAB. You've done the first step by contacting the rep. Now you need to read the FAQs...
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

Then follow these steps for the PAB (pitch-A-bitch, the free service offered here)...
https://www.casinomeister.com/player-arbitration-pab/

Remember, if you decide to PAB, do NOT post further. Good luck!

Credit to you for actually understanding what the post was about.
 

Maverick

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Location
Australia
Hi Raul1, I believe most casino's and most companies in general always have an option in their terms and conditions, that their terms and conditions can change at anytime. I Know you believe they may have changed while you were playing, if this is the case then you would have grounds to proceed with a complaint, but if it's just your word against the casino, then it's going to be difficult to prove either way. Are you able to ask the casino when their terms may have changed? I wouldn't be going at them gun ho so to speak, but a little investigation may assist you. Hope it all works out well for you!
 

raul1

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Location
Mexico city
I start now ecogra and pitch bitch, I can say the following

1. My eyes saw 30 rule not 25

2. The casino use any scary rule in his terms in order not to pay players, the casino reply with nice answers prouding of him being Ecogra accredited and Casinomeister accredited, I could see it is not the first time they try not to pay a player, sometimes they are being successful especially at time like now that casinos dont pay player even without bonuses, so nobody care.

3. Redflush put rules and change them and dont give specific dates of when they changed it

Redflush casino did a dirty trick to me, EVEN if the max bet was 27 and I placed 30 , is that a reason to close somebody account in a panic and bad and evil move, what did I do wrong to you Redflush for such a behaviour, what ? that I trusted your casino ? the terms, I trusted your casino, I am ur customer, shame on you


And where are you hiding REFLUSH, why you dont come and respond in the forum here and say when exactly did you change the rule, THE WEBSITE WAS CHANGED, where are you hiding

Also those max bet rules are there yes but they should just be there to scare people and not to apply them, if you want to apply them change the software so I cant be more than a specific amount, why to use an aggressive and violent act of not paying winnings won at your tables, the standards I expected from you are much much higher and you behave like a child flashing a rule for 1,2 cents above a scary rule that was changed after I played, where are you hiding
 

novanmarie

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 29, 2010
Location
NWT
redflush pay the player!!!

I understand where you are coming from. Have you heard any replies from the casino on this issue?

when we deposit funds into our accounts - its instant... when we withdraw, it takes days... all online casinos should have the same respect as to a deposit. why have a 48 hour hold of funds!!! if I could, I would do away with all online gaming!!!

I hit a big win finally of 3800.00... but... when playing afterwards no wins, not one from redflush in a one week period - by then I was down to 200.00, played major millions and hit 500.00, thankfully I cashout 700.00. that was so awkward period... responsible gaming, haha... responsible casinos!!!
 
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