Bonus Complaint Red Flush missing and predatory(?) T&C

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
I'm filing this under a bonus complaint, simply because it's regarding a bonus. I was going to sign up there before this happened, but have decided not to.

1: There are no terms and conditions for the 100% match bonus listed on
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, nor
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(I thought only Roguish casinos did this?)

2: When I went to live chat, I asked for the link to both the details and terms for the promotion. I received neither. Rather than going on about the chat, you can read it for yourself, and be the judge.

3: Get ready for this: NEW PLAYERS = 7.5X MAX CASHOUT! With a sticky bonus!!! This is worse than RTG. And exactly what constitutes a loyal player? 2 deposits? 5 deposits? 10... ?

4: Needless to say, there is NO MENTION of ANY OF THE TERMS on their website that Gary told me about! These are quite HIDDEN (Again, Roguish?)

Chat InformationPlease wait for a site operator to respond.

Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Gary'

Gary: Welcome to Red Flush Casino. How may I assist you?

Brian: Hello, I was trying to find the terms for your 100% match bonus, but I can't locate them, nor any details about it on the promotions page

Brian: do you have a link I could use?

Gary: Please log on to www.redflush.com for all of the T's and Cs

Brian: I did that, and I'm on
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right now

Brian: there is no link for the 100% match bonus terms or details

Gary: Great, you'll notice that there is a term for "promotional money" the max you can cash in on free $ is $750 regardless on how much you win [Where?]

Brian: wow, so you're saying if I sign up, deposit $100 and take a bonus, I can only cash out $750, even if I hit a jackpot?

Brian: that's worse than real time gaming casinos

Brian: and what are the wagering requirements for this promotion?

Gary: Indeed, there is a way around that though, simply make a purchase with the casino and become a loyal player [What makes you a loyal player?]

Gary: Wagering is usually 30x the bonus but it depends on which games you play

Brian: sorry, but why would I even become a loyal player if I were to get burned on a max cashout rule....thanks for your help
 

dambusted

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Location
Arizona
Imagine That!

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/dambusted-response-time-appreciated.26225/

Wonder what the sticky is on the $100(No Deposit bonus ) is then?

All I can say is GoodLuck even if you do get to cashout. As you can see by my threads it was a bumpy road.
Another update--I still have had NO response regarding paying for services the Casino says they provided! I don't really think they give a rats *** about keeping long term players!
 

dambusted

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Location
Arizona
Loyal Player

Forgot...I believe Loyal Player= A player that keeps depositing and doesn't cash out...:thumbsup:
 

kmay87

Meister Member
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Location
England
Forgot...I believe Loyal Player= A player that keeps depositing and doesn't cash out...:thumbsup:

Probably, in casino terms, one who deposits without a bonus. Although I think with the above restrictions, I wouldn't want that bonus anyway!
 

sdaddy

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Arizona
Yep, I'm troubled by their T&Cs also. Found this:
12. Observations of playing patterns such as the playing for deliberate minimum risk, equal, zero margin or hedge betting may not be considered as playing in the appropriate spirit for the purposes of meeting bonus wagering requirements. Should the Casino deem that these practices have been utilized for the specific purpose of meeting wagering requirements, the casino reserves the right to withhold any cashins and/or confiscate all winnings.

Like with all similar "bonus abuse" rules, it's too vague. I'll just stick with MG casino groups that don't have such language.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Here's another predatory term:


If the casino deems that the autoplay feature has been used for the purpose of meeting bonus account wagering requirements, Red Flush reserves the right to void winnings.


So, if a player uses autoplay instead of sitting there clicking 'spin' every round, they're a bonus abuser?


Again, these terms are not linked, nor is any information about the 100% SUB listed on their "promotions" page. To get to the terms, you have to go to the bottom (very very very bottom, near the 'affiliates' link, etc) of a page and click on "Terms and conditons." Get real people, have your terms linked from EVERY page on the site in CLEAR view!


FWIW, it shows that the $750 cashout is the max for a ND BONUS, not the SUB. These support operators really need to get their shite together.
 

LaHutti

Sr. ÜberUnter Ass. Man.
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Location
East and West
Here's another predatory term:





So, if a player uses autoplay instead of sitting there clicking 'spin' every round, they're a bonus abuser?


Again, these terms are not linked, nor is any information about the 100% SUB listed on their "promotions" page. To get to the terms, you have to go to the bottom (very very very bottom, near the 'affiliates' link, etc) of a page and click on "Terms and conditons." Get real people, have your terms linked from EVERY page on the site in CLEAR view!


FWIW, it shows that the $750 cashout is the max for a ND BONUS, not the SUB. These support operators really need to get their shite together.

lol...they do...and they need to have the autoplay buttons removed, if you're not allowed to use them. That has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard,!
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Sorry, forgot a thought I had.....


What really irks me is that (Gary) the support operator couldn't just give me a link to the terms and conditions page and let me read it for myself. Instead, he gave me information on something totally different (ND Bonus rules vs. Match bonus rules.) How could I have made it more clear that I was talking about the Match bonus?

1st line:

Brian: Hello, I was trying to find the terms for your 100% match bonus, but I can't locate them, nor any details about it on the promotions page


By the way:

It seems that a CD mailer is where one gets the ND Bonus offer. The last paragraph on
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leads me to believe that.

How in the world would you get their CD for a ND offer if you've never played there? Are they buying player lists from other casinos?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Sorry, forgot a thought I had.....


What really irks me is that (Gary) the support operator couldn't just give me a link to the terms and conditions page and let me read it for myself. Instead, he gave me information on something totally different (ND Bonus rules vs. Match bonus rules.) How could I have made it more clear that I was talking about the Match bonus?

1st line:




By the way:

It seems that a CD mailer is where one gets the ND Bonus offer. The last paragraph on
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
leads me to believe that.

How in the world would you get their CD for a ND offer if you've never played there? Are they buying player lists from other casinos?

Not directly, this would be done by buying names & addresses from a marketing company who has compiled targeted lists of people likely to fit certain profiles. They would themselves have received this information through various surveys, and statistics based on what these people have previously bought. These lists are more likely to be profiles, and not specific people, and may be generated from census data on age, salary, social category, and then worked to produce a list of those most likely to buy certain products and services. Anyone who has EVER expressed an interest in internet gambling is likely to be profiled on such lists. Naturally, there ARE unscrupulous casinos and casino employees that will DIRECTLY sell player lists to such marketing companies.

This seems to be yet another case of "poor training" of a CS operator, which has resulted in Red Flush being likened to the rogues before it becomes clear that the CS operator got mixed up between a DEPOSIT bonus, and a free chip. Many casinos, INCLUDING MG ONES, have cashout limits on these free chips, however these ONLY apply where a player NEVER deposits any of their own money. Ideally, one should claim the free chip, and then deposit for the match bonus, after which they should play "in the spirit of the offer" (eg, leave Blackjack & Roulette alone, and ideally just play slots).

While this should cause no trouble, I am now a little concerned given that another player has complained their DEPOSIT has been confiscated, as well as winnings, and without a bonus seeming to be involved. Quite possibly, this is yet another CS cock-up, and the deposit will be refunded, and only winnings held in dispute, which is more usual, although still puzzling where no bonus seems to be involved.

If Red Flush are suffering a fraud attack, they had better let Max know now, so that these complaints can be seen in context, and the "Dolphins" rescued from the "Tuna net" before Red Flush gets an adverse reputation.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
If Red Flush are suffering a fraud attack, they had better let Max know now, so that these complaints can be seen in context, and the "Dolphins" rescued from the "Tuna net" before Red Flush gets an adverse reputation.

IMO, they're already getting this reputation, if not for the other problems they're having, but for having such predatory T&C's. Only rogues stick a "no autoplay" term in their rules; not to mention the others.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
IMO, they're already getting this reputation, if not for the other problems they're having, but for having such predatory T&C's. Only rogues stick a "no autoplay" term in their rules; not to mention the others.

This is a "Casino Rewards" term, which is why I questioned whether this was a Casino Rewards related brand when they launched. They were also said to be a Grand Prive brand as they had "Agent Jane Blonde" slot, and Grand Prive themselves list this game as being "exclusive to Grand Prive"

They are listed here as an independent, but recent developments in the "no pay" thread have their CS admitting that they "share information with other casinos", in other words, there is a "central blacklist" that Red Flush subscribes to, which is shared between an unspecified group of otherwise independent casinos. Players seem to have NO RIGHT to see what this list holds about them, nor, or course, the right to have any incorrect information held about them corrected. If this were a UK based company, this would NOT be allowed, as we would have a right to see the information held about us, and have anything that can be shown to be wrong removed or corrected.

It seems there are a number of these blacklists around, which the software providers deny existence of, yet clearly they exist in some form - just that the software providers themselves do not operate them, thus giving them the ability to deny any knowledge of them.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
This is a "Casino Rewards" term, which is why I questioned whether this was a Casino Rewards related brand when they launched. They were also said to be a Grand Prive brand as they had "Agent Jane Blonde" slot, and Grand Prive themselves list this game as being "exclusive to Grand Prive"

Interestingly enough, casinorewards.com and redflush.com are both registered via the same registrar. AND use the same "privacy" cloaking service.

:rolleyes:


C'mon Red Flush.......if you're part of the CR group, admit it already.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Interestingly enough, casinorewards.com and redflush.com are both registered via the same registrar. AND use the same "privacy" cloaking service.

:rolleyes:


C'mon Red Flush.......if you're part of the CR group, admit it already.

This is probably just coincidence, however, it could indicate that Red Flush is the brainchild of a group of former Casino Rewards executives who have decided to launch a separate entity starting with one casino. They may also have teamed up with some ex Grand Prive executives. It certainly seems they are a combination of the two brands, perhaps seeking to merge the best (although maybe not for players) aspects of both.


Funny how a company that expects us to deposit loads of our own money, and trust them to pay out if we win, has to use a cloaking service to hide behind. When I set up my website, I DIDN'T think to use a cloaking service since I was placing some affiliate banners up, and was expecting that some visitors would deposit their OWN money on the basis of my recommendations as to what casino was "safe to play at".
 

tristan727

Banned user - violation of <a href="http://www.ca
Joined
May 31, 2006
Location
London
OMG, that $750 max. rule is awful - I bet you 99% of the players play games with a top prize over that amount (slots, progressives, allowed table games etc.) & don't have a clue about this clause - as is undeard of for an MG casino....except for freeplay signup bonuses. They must be keeping almost every bloody penny deposited.
 

martynbeacon

Experienced Member
webmeister
Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Hi all,

Just spotted this post now and will alert RedFlushHost and get them to come in and clear up the original point, its seems to have gone off on a tangent again.

I would also like to put to bed (again) this theory that we are related to other casino groups, we're not. We are an independant and the people who started up RedFlush have been in the business for 10 years. The use of the registrar and privacy service is purely coincidental and nothing can be, nor should be read into that.

If you ran a casino would you have your name and address listed? :what:

I know I wouldn't.
 

fortunelounge

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 7, 2003
Location
South Africa
Max Cashout Rule

Hi Everyone,

Regarding our 750 max cashout rule, just to reiterate what has been posted previously, we are not the only MG casino to have a max cashout rule, for any no deposit bonus, most casinos have a max cashout, Redflush has set this to 750.

This is not an uncommon practice and I am sure you would agree that this is only fair, we are giving players the opportunity to win up to 750 with no risk to yourself. This has been a standard Term and Condition for years at most casinos. You are welcome to visit us at <
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
>, where you will find this clause under the " No Deposit Bonus (where offered) Terms And Conditions" section.

All other promotions at Red Flush have no max cashout rule, so I would encourage you to take us up on our current Freeplay offer, if you have not already done so.

Regards
RedFlush Host
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Interestingly enough, casinorewards.com and redflush.com are both registered via the same registrar. AND use the same "privacy" cloaking service.

:rolleyes:


C'mon Red Flush.......if you're part of the CR group, admit it already.

Just to add - many MGS powered domains are registered by an offshoot of MGS. It has always been this way - and it's common to use "domains by proxy" for dot coms. I do it all the time. :D

And the operators of Red Flush have nothing to do with Casino Rewards - they are on opposite sides of the globe - and I've known them for several years. You should have simply asked me :p
 

tristan727

Banned user - violation of <a href="http://www.ca
Joined
May 31, 2006
Location
London
Hi Everyone,

Regarding our 750 max cashout rule, just to reiterate what has been posted previously, we are not the only MG casino to have a max cashout rule, for any no deposit bonus, most casinos have a max cashout, Redflush has set this to 750.

This is not an uncommon practice and I am sure you would agree that this is only fair, we are giving players the opportunity to win up to 750 with no risk to yourself. This has been a standard Term and Condition for years at most casinos. You are welcome to visit us at <
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
>, where you will find this clause under the " No Deposit Bonus (where offered) Terms And Conditions" section.

All other promotions at Red Flush have no max cashout rule, so I would encourage you to take us up on our current Freeplay offer, if you have not already done so.

Regards
RedFlush Host

I quite agree - however it seems clear therefore that the OP was given incorrect information by your customer support, who confused the 2 promos - so the fault & public damage of this misunderstanding is down to lack of training at your end.


Could I just ask please what kind of play would
 

tristan727

Banned user - violation of <a href="http://www.ca
Joined
May 31, 2006
Location
London
Hi Everyone,

Regarding our 750 max cashout rule, just to reiterate what has been posted previously, we are not the only MG casino to have a max cashout rule, for any no deposit bonus, most casinos have a max cashout, Redflush has set this to 750.

This is not an uncommon practice and I am sure you would agree that this is only fair, we are giving players the opportunity to win up to 750 with no risk to yourself. This has been a standard Term and Condition for years at most casinos. You are welcome to visit us at <
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
>, where you will find this clause under the " No Deposit Bonus (where offered) Terms And Conditions" section.

All other promotions at Red Flush have no max cashout rule, so I would encourage you to take us up on our current Freeplay offer, if you have not already done so.

Regards
RedFlush Host

I quite agree - however it seems clear therefore that the OP was given incorrect information by your customer support, who confused the 2 promos - so the fault & public damage of this misunderstanding is down to lack of training at your end.


Could I just ask please what kind of play at your casino would my funds be safe from confiscation, were I to play with a bonus? I'm really kind of stuck as to which type of player is left, after you eliminate minimum riskers, equal, zero margin or hedge bettors, autoplayers, and majority balance wagerers? I can't remember the last time I didn't use autoplay on an MG slot. Nor, if table games & video poker/roulette etc. require btwn. 60-1500x bonus wagering.... how any hedging, margin or minimum risk (whatever these are) strategy is going to give me a decent chance of any profit.

And also - why I shouldn't choose another MG like, say, Unibet - who have no such terms, none at all that I can see? How would your product be so superior over their's, that one could overlook these terms? I would suggest, although I'm no industry expert - that the Unibets & 32red's of the world see bonuses more as an acceptable marketing expense than others, who maybe see it more in terms of getting deposits & cash in....to which my opinon on, regards to your casino, is open currently- as you're new.
 
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