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Realtime Gaming alert

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by cipher, Aug 31, 2004.

    Aug 31, 2004
  1. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    This morning I had a group of of folks over to my office for the purposes of getting our thoughts and information together on a couple of sports books that we might be using for the up coming college and pro football season.

    After kicking the football issue around for awhile, I was asked which casinos I felt were the most favorable for the player in playing Blackjack in addition to other console games. Naturally the subject of the Phoenician and Nostalgia casinos came up, in view of the instant withdrawals that are offered by that group. At that point I threw my two cents into the conversation by saying that I had become more than a little concerned as to some recent trends that I had noticed with regards all Realtime Gaming casinos in general, and particularly the fact that I had noticed an alarming amount of single wins for the player but a staggering amount of consecutive win clumps in favor of the house and that this pattern seemed to be getting worse rather than evening out or getting better. Additionally there seemed to be a strong indication that the players hands were in fact weighted as to the amount wagered.

    A couple of the people asked if we could go on-line and log-on for the purposes of taking a look at a Realtime Gaming session. At that point we logged on to the Phoenician casino and I've got tell you that I felt like a prophet and I'll let the attached Cipher strand speak for itself.

    This is exactly the type of thing that has been occurring on a regular basis with Realtime Gaming casinos and in point of fact I brought this exact issue to the attention of Brad, the manager of Bodog casino this weekend and in fact I sent him a rather lengthy Cipher strand in support of that opinion.

    Lastly, I brought this to the attention of Dean at the Phoenician casino even to the point of alerting Dean of the fact that I would be posting this post as well as the attached Cipher strand. I would be very careful about playing at any RTG casino as the data that I've recorded over the last month or so seems to have become the "norm" and that is not good for the player.
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2004
  2. Aug 31, 2004
  3. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    Attachments to above post:
  4. Aug 31, 2004
  5. bewitch

    bewitch Dormant account

    Home, sweet home
    Cipher, Thank you for the information. Hope your hard work will make things right again. HAVE A NICE WEEK!!
  6. Aug 31, 2004
  7. Black21Jack

    Black21Jack Dormant account

    Courier driver
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Well I must say that this is very disturbing, and disappointing as I was a proponent of RTG and would come to their defence whenever they were under fire. I too have come to this conclusion, based on what I have been noticing in my gameplay. I deposited money into 27 RTG's (rogues included) just to test the software today, nothing scientific but just to look at gameplay in many RTG's. It is unbelievable. I find that the worst casino's are those using the new multihand format and I would like ciphers input on this, and if you have ever tried to analyze the difference between the multihand BJ casinos and the single hand BJ casinos. I lost my money in every single multihand casino with an unbelievable amount of dealer BJ's and 21's to my 20's. In one of the casinos starting with the first hand played the dealer got 5 BJ's in a row and then pushed every hand 20, 17, 17, 19 after. I would like to know the probability of this if anyone can help. I am going to request my logs for the session from this particular casino and I will post them here you will be amazed.
  8. Aug 31, 2004
  9. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    Hi Black21jack; After you post those logs I'll covert them to Cipher strands and we can take a look at how they compare. Have a good one.
  10. Aug 31, 2004
  11. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Casino apologist
    The chances of five consecutive blackjacks is 3,200,000 to one. Then there was the Reef Club player (Cassava) who also witnessed five consecutive blackjacks. Both claims remain unproven of course, and an awful lot of blackjack is played, so it could happen. Although the location of the hands within the session makes no difference, to actually face down five dealer blackjacks at the very start is pretty spectacular.

    As always, to get a handle on the overall probability you need to look at the win / loss stats for the entire session (unless something EXTREMELY freaky happens along the way, like eight consecutive blackjacks), work out the SD and the probability thereof, add session hands played, and that's pretty much the total hands needed to see such a result in a fair game.
  12. Aug 31, 2004
  13. jerseyguy11

    jerseyguy11 Dormant account

    new jersey
    cipher, I have been saying this about RTG casinos from the very beginning. I'll reiterate, you win 30% of the time (if your lucky), house wins 70% of the time. I never play at RTG and never will after my experiences. If you think those strands are shocking, you should have seen my blackwidow/onluck/grand banks casino play in 2000. These trends do not show fair blackjack and havent since I played four years ago. Sorry for your losses cipher.
  14. Aug 31, 2004
  15. DeMango

    DeMango Dormant account

    Postal Clerk, Residential Contractor
    Englewood, FL USA
    I have two thoughts. There has to be a way to pay for all these bonuses. Consider the outrageous %'s or dollar ammounts at Connect to or American Grand! "Tweaking" the software just a tad would do it! Then how to pay for all the damage caused by The Pirate? Tweak the software some more! Doesn't have to be much, make the ev. 98% or so instead of 99.5% With their warped minds it really wouldn't be considered cheating, just changing the payout like changing the payout of a slot machine
  16. Aug 31, 2004
  17. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    Hi Jersey; in this business losses can be and at times, even should be expected as long as they are accumulated in a fair game. In this instance the losses sustained are more than worth it considering the lessons learned.

    After better than 7,000,000 hands of blackjack played and logged I think I've got a pretty fair idea of what is and is not being manipulated and in my opinion this RTG "BS" of late is being manipulated.
  18. Aug 31, 2004
  19. dominique

    dominique Dormant account

    The Boonies
    I tend to stay out of these threads as I am not skilled enough to make any observations regarding the honesty of BJ games.

    I have to say though that I, too, have noticed a change in RTG BJ. It has always been streaky and that can be played along with, but lately I have noticed something different, and it is exactly what Cipher says here:

    Thank you Cipher, for comfirming that.
  20. Aug 31, 2004
  21. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Just wondering, Cipher, what's your opinion of Playtech BJ?

    I've been playing at some of their casinos recently & have to adopt a varied staking pattern just to have a chance of surviving all the losses and making something from the very occasional runs in favour of the player.

    Might ask for logs at one casino, but was able to get the last 92 hands from the history button - Played 92, won 33, pushed 7, lost 52. Longest winning run for the player - 2 hands, which occurred 5 times. The dealer twice had 6 wins in a row, and 18 times won 2+ in a row. I wouldn't mind so much, but this wasn't the worst session I had this morning!
  22. Aug 31, 2004
  23. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    Hi Vesuvio; To be honest I've not had much play at any of the Playtech casino recently. But I will say that a year or so ago I made a pretty good chunk of change, mainly with Aspinalls, Golden Nugget, Del Rio, Carnival and New York casinos.

    It wasn't until I noticed some real funny things going on with Casino Fortune and Miami Beach casino that I totally stopped playing Playtech. Have a good one.
  24. Aug 31, 2004
  25. chucho

    chucho Bonus Pimp

    I would be curious to see Playtech results as I feel that their BJ play is the least "natural" Gold Club is in a close second, I mostly lose at GC but when I win I win big. Last week for example at Gold Club the dealer had 15 BJ to 0. By the time I zeroed out, I had 3 BJ's to a dealer 18. I also played at Gold Club and managed to lose a $200 starting balance in about $300 of play doing $10-$15 bets. I also managed to win $900 at Gold Club the other day, won probably 70% of the hands including some $100+ splits and doubles. Moral of the story, the switch is ON ON ON, it is finally OFF one day and I am rich! Is it too much to ask for a "natural" game? In my opinion, the only place you can get a game simular land based play is at Crockfords, but it is too slow.
  26. Aug 31, 2004
  27. jerseyguy11

    jerseyguy11 Dormant account

    new jersey

    i have to disagree, I dont think this RTG BS is "of late". My first or second post on this board codemned RTG casinos. This is nothing new to me.


    "Basically any RealTimeGaming Software Casino is bad."

    Of course losses can be expected cipher, but I too have played probably
    2,000,000 hands of blackjack or more. When I consistently lost nearly 70-75% of my hands or more on RTG casinos (especially when I bet higher which makes me believe certain RTG casinos can impose a "limit", "switch" or whatever you want to call it), I stopped playing them. I really wish I had logged my play from 2000.
  28. Aug 31, 2004
  29. jerseyguy11

    jerseyguy11 Dormant account

    new jersey
    I want to stress that I believe no matter what software a casino has (playtech, MG, Boss etc) it really depends on which casino chooses to "fool around" with the software and which casino doesnt. Anyway thats my opinion. So while there may be some good RTG casinos out there, I havent encountered one yet and im not about to go out of my way to look for one.
  30. Aug 31, 2004
  31. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    Hi Jersey; Ya know I think you can still reguest those log data files through the casinos that you played at. Additionally, my reference to "of late" was in reference to the fact that I'm now aware of the fact that there are quite a few players (not unlike yourself Jersey) that have in fact lost in the tens of thousands of dollars up to and including hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    Have a good one.
  32. Aug 31, 2004
  33. jerseyguy11

    jerseyguy11 Dormant account

    new jersey
    regardless of how much someone loses, what matter is did they lose it to fair gameplay (when i say fair i mean vegas fair, not "antigua rules" fair lol). And i have a lot of sympathy for those who've lose so much money. I have even more sympathy to those who've lose it to crooked blackjack.
  34. Sep 1, 2004
  35. Phoenician

    Phoenician Dormant account


    From my position and my groups position we do not believe that there is anything wrong with the real time gaming software and we have and always will take up serious player issues ( like issues cipher and others have raised in the past ) with real time gaming. we have a significant investment in the industry and it is as important to us as it is to our players that the software does play true. the distribution over millions and tens of millions of hands is well and truely in line with expectations.

    These are some of the facts for other players to consider and to take into consideration when reading ciphers posts.

    - overall cipher is winning at our casinos - he is a good blackjack player
    - the session data that cipher posts is selective - he also has winning sessions
    - overall all our games are playing within house expectations
    - we dont have any control over the game play of the software and in my opinion neither would rtg or any other major software supplier - think about it , if there was a 'switch' it only takes one disgruntled employee to blow the lid and they would be out of business - the fact is all casino games have a house edge that is why casinos exist online and offline!
    - we are not a rogue casino group , we pay our players , we sort out any issues ( not that there are ever many ) , if we were corrupt then why would we bother to participate in forums , pay our players timely , pay our affiliates timely.
    - there are many many players who post and / or lurk on these forums that have won some very decent amounts from us and have been paid without problem and promptly

    i also play blackjack ( not very well mind you ) at some of RTG casinos as well as others and i also play blackjack at land based casinos - i am generally a flat bettor , i just flat bet a little more when i am winning :). i have experienced sessions like the ones that cipher has posted online and offline as i am sure many of us have. i have also experienced winning sessions which would be the exact reverse of what cipher has also posted. i am not sure that 23 hands of blackjack in conclusive evidence that our casino or our software providor has done something wrong.


  36. Sep 1, 2004
  37. lanidar

    lanidar Dormant account

    Avenel, New Jersey
    I've been saying that ever since I started playing Blackjack over two years ago.
    AND...I play about 700 hands per day.
  38. Sep 1, 2004
  39. Lurkio

    Lurkio Webmaster


    Heres a FACT from a webmaster/affiliate who knows..


    I have 2 very close friends who work for operators and I have seen the back end in detail too...and No, its not the Phoenician.

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