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Rant about instant withdrawals...

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by johnsteed, Nov 15, 2005.

    Nov 15, 2005
  1. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
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    Hello Casinomeisters,

    Obviously, I would assume that 99.99% of the online gaming community (closer to 100% than to 99.99%, but there are crazy people out there:p ) would prefer to have instant withdrawals as opposed to waiting for even a day. While it certainly feels great knowing that you can get your wins instantly, I think there's something just as... if not more important than collecting wins.

    Personally, I have these strong feelings about how I know I'm not going to win after playing for a few minutes. Lately, I generally make $100 deposits at MG casino's (whereas I used to make the majority of mine in the $20-50 range). The problem when you know you're going to lose (as I'm sure some of the other posters would share these same feelings), while you can withdraw, you have to wait a day or two to get those funds back. Sure, it's not that long of a wait, but sitting there while playing, you're more than likely to keep playing through JUST because you'd rather be occupied (with futile hopes of winning) than to have to wait another day. When you're at a casino, you can go grab a drink, and switch tables.

    For me, the best game at figuring out IF I'm going to have a winning session or a losing one is BJ. To many people, my reasons are likely to appear as fruitless. But I know I'm not going to be doing much winning IF:

    - The dealers bust cards routinely end of being 20's and 21's.
    - The player draws bust cards (less than 6) on the majority of doubling up situations WHILE the dealer is showing a bust card. For eg. I have 2 and a 9, and the dealer is showing a 4. I double-up and draw a 3, and the dealer draws a 10 and a 6. Either way, I would have lost.
    - The dealer routinely puts together 19-21's with 4-5 cards, while the player generally busts on 3 cards (and can't ever have similar luck as the dealer).
    - When the rare BJ's that the player gets results in a push, ditto on 21's.
    - When hitting on anything equal and higher than 12 results in drawing a face card, yet hitting on 8-10's results in drawing low cards.
    - Splits on A's and face cards consistently result in either a loss or a draw (or even money, let's say a win AND a loss).



    When you see these things occuring after a short amount of time in succession, it's not likely to change over the course of a full-session (at least in my long-term experience).:( So, ideally, if this is happening at Capital Casino for example, I'd love to take what's left of my credit and go over to Spin Palace and try my luck there.:thumbsup:

    I accept losing, generally expect to lose, when I win, that's super (that's why I play BECAUSE that's the fun in it). But for me, my instincts tell me when I'm not going to win somewhere, and that this particular casino has dried-up for me for the time being (generally after making 1-2 substantial withdrawals). I know MANY people who'll disagree with this, and that ALL MG's play-out the same way. That may very well be true, and there may be great statistics to back that up. I feel differently about that very subject though.

    Another note, I've often read about how some of the online gaming community prefers having the reverse-withdrawal option. I read 10% prefer having that option. Since when is 10% of anything in a poll, ENOUGH to keep an option around?:confused: These polls that are "really" done:

    - Who's voting?
    - Who REALLY wants the reverse withdrawal option?
    - And if that person REALLY wants that option, is that opposed to merely flushing or say, instant withdrawals? Because, that's a huge difference.


    If there is a faction of people out there in the world who would rather have reverse withdrawals as opposed to instant withdrawals, I'm finding that hard to believe.:what: Frankly, that doesn't even make any sense. If Phoenician can offer instant, if Extreme can offer instant, why can't this be the standard then? We hear all these wonderful reasons as to why it can't be done, but why are these smaller operations able to do it (I assume they WERE smaller operations PRIOR to offering instant)?:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2005
  2. Nov 15, 2005
  3. bpb

    bpb Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr PABnorogue PABnonaccred

    Location:
    Haverhill
    This seems more like a rant about your lack of belief in probability ....
     
  4. Nov 15, 2005
  5. DarthVader

    DarthVader Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Actor, tap-dancing...
    Location:
    Trying to get a sun-tan on planet LV-426...
    I'd like instant withdrawals whenever I'm losing.
     
  6. Nov 15, 2005
  7. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    bpb

    This seems more like a rant about your lack of belief in probability ....

    Hello bpb,

    In some ways, yes, you're correct.:) My main point though, was that while most online players would love the option for instant withdrawals when they win, I feel just as strongly to have that option for when one's losing. When I know I'm losing big, and I feel that I'm in a middle of a shit-storm, I would like to take what's left and go to another casino.:thumbsup: And.... do all of this in about 10 minutes time (withdrawal, and deposit).

    I used BJ as an example of when (in my experience) I see things going sour. I can think of various sessions of Thunderstruck, not getting any bonus sessions in over 800 spins, and then getting little when the bonus round does hit.:eek: Same thing for Tombraider, going 300 spins with no bonus round OR aztec statues.:eek2: Or VP.:(

    When I feel that a casino is cold, I would much rather take that money out and deposit somewhere else than to continue playing at that specific place. I don't want to always sit around waiting for my faith in probability to play it's role. For me, when things are going South, they stay on course more often than not.:(
     
  8. Nov 15, 2005
  9. dickens1298

    dickens1298 Dormant account

    Location:
    LA, California
    My "definition" of instant withdrawals is not so much that it is "instant", but rather how many days the cash is unavailable to me (eg "in transit"). The distinction is important because those are funds that are unavailable to be "in play" - either earning interest, serving as investment capital, or for gaming purposes. Under that definition, I have found the Crypto casinos the best, with the "downtime" being merely a day. For instance, if I deposit Friday morning, and cash out later in the session, I would see the debit in my checking account on Monday, but the winnings credited to the account on Tuesday.

    For that reason, I have an aversion to Casino-On-Net and Bodog, both of which seem to have 5 day waiting periods.

    As for your earlier comments, they seem to deal more with a lack of discipline (which we all suffer from to some extent) than anything else. OF COURSE the casinos offer a REVERSE option - they WANT you to play out your winnings (or the remainder of your stake). Why become sucked into that particular maelstrom when you're already guaranteed money? In a similar vein, why continue playing if you "know" you're going to lose?
     
  10. Nov 15, 2005
  11. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Someone couldn't keep their accounts straight, methinks ... :lolup:

    You had to be here before the edit to know what I mean. :D
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Nov 15, 2005
  13. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    I guess I lack discipline...

    dickens1298

    For that reason, I have an aversion to Casino-On-Net and Bodog, both of which seem to have 5 day waiting periods.

    As for your earlier comments, they seem to deal more with a lack of discipline (which we all suffer from to some extent) than anything else. OF COURSE the casinos offer a REVERSE option - they WANT you to play out your winnings (or the remainder of your stake). Why become sucked into that particular maelstrom when you're already guaranteed money? In a similar vein, why continue playing if you "know" you're going to lose?


    Hi dickens1298,

    Well, yes, I for one lack a great amount of discipline. I've only stopped and withdrawn while in the red maybe 5 times. So in the end, I more often than not continue playing in hopes for the best (with futile results). And yes, the casino's obviously want you to stick-around, because MANY people will reverse the withdrawal and lose their funds (and let's not forget, perhaps winning much more :D ). I don't expect casino's to start changing their withdrawal periods, but it would REALLY please the player.
     
  14. Nov 15, 2005
  15. rudepete

    rudepete Dormant account

    Occupation:
    American Revolution truck driver
    Location:
    Michigan
    I agree with you 100%

    :D I too favor instant withdrawals. I have played at Extreme and see I am on a losing streak and want out of there fast and go somewhere else or take advantage of a bonus somewhere else and have more money to play with.
    It just doesn't make sense why some casinos offer it and some don't.
    Probably would have to have more people to man the lines.
    I hate reverse withdrawals and am glad that some casinos flush me instantly, so I Can't reverse it. Thus I have money to play another day.
     
  16. Nov 15, 2005
  17. schnozzy

    schnozzy Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Ohio
    I try to be logical about this stuff, but I'm not.

    If I'm doubling a win at Good To Go, I break out my lucky deck of cards, shuffle it up, then peel cards off the top of the deck to pick red or black.

    If I'm doubling at video poker, I take that same deck of cards, deal four cards face up, then I choose the highest one, and click the same one on the screen.

    Is it logical? Absolutely not. But y'know what... it's fun.
     
  18. Nov 15, 2005
  19. venetian

    venetian Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Corp Director for a College
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Johnsteed, I agree with you 100%. I play VP and you know in a very short time if it will be a winning session. I would love to get my funds back and go elsewhere. Bellerock did a survey recently to see if anyone would like to use the Bellerock Buddy to be able to transfer their funds between their many casinos. Yes that would be great. (But I am upset with them for now so I am not playing there currently). So if the large group casinos would do that I think that's great at least that would be a start. I have always felt...our money goes to them right away, why can't we get it back right away?
     
  20. Nov 15, 2005
  21. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    venetian

    Johnsteed, I agree with you 100%. I play VP and you know in a very short time if it will be a winning session. I would love to get my funds back and go elsewhere. - I have always felt...our money goes to them right away, why can't we get it back right away?

    rudepete

    I too favor instant withdrawals. I have played at Extreme and see I am on a losing streak and want out of there fast and go somewhere else or take advantage of a bonus somewhere else and have more money to play with. It just doesn't make sense why some casinos offer it and some don't.

    Hi venetian and rudepete,

    Thank you kindly.:)

    Again, I have to trust my instincts as to when things aren't working for me, and there'd be nothing better than to pack-up and hit another casino altogether. Just like Atlantic City, Monte Carlo or in Vegas (or of all places, Winnipeg, Canada... :what: esoteric reference :D ).

    I know there are tons of reasons WHY they don't want to give us our money back promptly, but if they truly want to be as close-to-authentic as they get, they should allow instant withdrawals. To write off the entire industry as not being able to do it, well we know that both Casino Extreme and Phoenician (RTG & MG softwares) do this. They aren't the biggest names in the industry (at least Casino Extreme isn't), and as far as I know, they aren't land-based casinos either (like Ladbrokes as an example), which to the best of my knowledge (as explained to me by operators at both Mapau/Sunny Group as well as Ladbrokes) can offer much more in terms of payment options (although I'm not so sure I agree with that).

    venetian continued...

    Bellerock did a survey recently to see if anyone would like to use the Bellerock Buddy to be able to transfer their funds between their many casinos. Yes that would be great. (But I am upset with them for now so I am not playing there currently). So if the large group casinos would do that I think that's great at least that would be a start. I have always felt...our money goes to them right away, why can't we get it back right away?

    I'm a bit skeptical about Bellerock's customer service problems over the past year or so, but that does sound like a great idea!:thumbsup: I hope that idea comes into fruition. Hey, most sportingbet casinos have transfers on funds to different sectors, as do various MG casinos from Bonus Account to Real Account, I think it could be done. And above all else, it's not like the affiliates would be suffering too much from this, as you would still be using their casinos. Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I never heard about that.
     
  22. Nov 15, 2005
  23. schnozzy

    schnozzy Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Ohio
    I have to thank Grand Hotel for their Reverse Withdrawal "Feature".

    Without it I would have lost 1 buy-in. Instead I won 20.

    The thing I really don't understand, is that poker rooms and sports books seem to get plenty of business without resorting to the four day hold. PartyPoker pays in less than an hour, same with PinnacleSports. So far, none of the (five) casinos I've tried have been that friendly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2005
  24. Nov 16, 2005
  25. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I really don't care if my withdrawals take a week - as long as it's not longer.
    So I must be the 0.01% = crazy! :D

    What I don't understand is why people who don't take regular bonuses bother to withdraw at all (unless they hit a MEGA win ;) ).
    Unless you've decided to give up gambling for ever - why withdraw?
    You're only going to re-deposit it again - so why not just leave it in the casino? :confused:
     
  26. Nov 16, 2005
  27. venetian

    venetian Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Corp Director for a College
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    KK I don't know what you mean by mega win, but if I get up over $600 or so I will take it out and leave my original deposit in and keep going. What I have noticed is that if you do hit something big (over $1000) most generally I go into a long losing streak at that casino. I would rather withdraw and 1) send it to my bank (I play to win and prosper) or 2) deposit at another casino and try to see if my streak will go on elsewhere or 3) go to Vegas. I'll be there in six days!!! Wish me luck :D
     
  28. Nov 16, 2005
  29. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    My favourite place on the whole planet! You lucky bugger! :cheers:

    Have a good time, lots of good luck, and come back RICH! :thumbsup:
     
  30. Nov 16, 2005
  31. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

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    KasinoKing

    What I don't understand is why people who don't take regular bonuses bother to withdraw at all (unless they hit a MEGA win ).

    Hi KK,

    For me, it depends on how big my bankroll (NeTeller allowance for gambling :D ) is for that month. I generally make $100 deposits. I usually place low/minimum bets, and once I hit $300, I almost always cash-out $200 ("the grey AND white meat") while leaving $100 in to "play" with. I see what you're saying about it being pointless redepositing in the casino I just won from... but I almost never do that (which is why I leave $100 back when I withdraw). If the account that I won in is still in LUCKY-mode, well, I have $100 in credit to find out. I prefer spreading it around a bit more, various casino's (AND generally different affiliates).

    I know some of my limitations and one of the big ones is leaving too much in my casino account. I tend to increase bets and make more high-risk plays that I wouldn't normally do, knowing that I have so much in that particular account. Historically, I've burned myself by doing this.

    On that point about redepositing into the same casino, I find that amusing myself. I've read prior threads about those who want to redeposit WHILE waiting for their withdrawal to be completed in the same casino. Why wouldn't you just leave a little change behind to keep going?

    KasinoKing cont...

    I really don't care if my withdrawals take a week - as long as it's not longer. So I must be the 0.01% = crazy!

    Hahaha, I think that 0.01% applies to those who DO care, AND those who would prefer the reverse option over instant withdrawals. I would never classify THE KasinoKing, nor even hint that he is crazy. :D Around here, his postings speak volumes. :notworthy

    On a sidenote, sorry to hear about your luck in October. I was personally hoping that the streak would have taken you through all of 2005. Next year...

    venetian

    What I have noticed is that if you do hit something big (over $1000) most generally I go into a long losing streak at that casino. I would rather withdraw and 1) send it to my bank (I play to win and prosper) or 2) deposit at another casino and try to see if my streak will go on elsewhere or 3) go to Vegas.

    Hi venetian,

    Similar approach... ;)

    Have a blast in Vegas! I miss the free drinks while placing $1 bets ALL-NIGHT-LONG with friends. Great times. :thumbsup:
     
  32. Nov 17, 2005
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Redepositing

    I have come across many casino promotions where a token deposit has to be made for each promotion if one wants to take part. In this situation, it is possible to want to deposit while a previous withdrawal is still pending. Such promotions also prohibit a reversal from qualifying for the promotion.
    A second reason for withdrawing and redepositing is it makes it harder for the automated audit to plant the "bonus abuser" label on your account. By depositing without bonuses from funds just withdrawn you establish a pattern of depositing without bonuses as well as depositing when a bonus comes along.
    A final, and controversial, reason that I like the ability to get my cash instantly from Phoenician is I have found the "Wheel of Cash" is not as random as they would have me believe. It seems that it will trigger copiously if frequent deposits are made, but when I had a big win (before they had instant payments) I played for over a month on what was left, and guess what - not one SINGLE "Wheel of Cash"; but deposited a grand in Aztec Riches and had 5 in ONE SESSION while playing in their tournaments (not just once - I can reliably get more of these "wheels" by altering my pattern of depositing and wager volatility - if they were really random lucky dip every half hour as advertised they would depend on length of play, not play style, losses and deposits).
     
  34. Nov 18, 2005
  35. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
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    Vinylweatherman

    I have come across many casino promotions where a token deposit has to be made for each promotion if one wants to take part...

    A second reason for withdrawing and redepositing is it makes it harder for the automated audit to plant the "bonus abuser" label on your account. By depositing without bonuses from funds just withdrawn you establish a pattern of depositing without bonuses as well as depositing when a bonus comes along.

    Hello Vinylweatherman,

    Yes, I guess some here have in the past been flagged for bonus abuse patterns so this all makes perfect sense. And, I guess it's a great way to get around it.

    Not that I actually do this, but I wondered that IF you were to withdraw for a large amount (eg. $1,000) that was won with a bonus, would it be in the players best interest (to not be labelled a bonus abuser) to make a couple deposits of just $20 and dump it? I generally never play with bonuses (except a couple of monthly match bonuses) anymore, but would it look better on the players record if they did so? I haven't a clue... just something that's crossed-my-mind.

    Thanks for the response. :thumbsup:
     
  36. Nov 18, 2005
  37. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    Me too! :D
    I was hoping to get close to, or beat my record of 26 consecutive winning months, but I've blown that now. Mind you - I'm still quite happy with 10 in a row! :thumbsup:

    November looks good so far, as a start for another run - I'll let you know if I make it in or before January 2008! :cool:
     

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