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Randomness of RTG software

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by BigSD, Oct 18, 2009.

    Oct 18, 2009
  1. BigSD

    BigSD Dormant account PABnononaccred3

    Occupation:
    Accountant
    Location:
    Australia
    I was wondering if some of the experts here could answer a question for me.

    I mostly play table games and only occasionally slots. I have always liked RTG software for some reason but lately I have had some really really bad results at 2 or 3 of the smaller RTG casinos. My question is it possible for RTG software to be fair but some dodgy operators installing some sort of a biased RNG to increase their house edge?
     
  2. Oct 18, 2009
  3. TOC

    TOC Dormant account

    Occupation:
    x
    Location:
    Earth
    Again, the million dollar question, Is RTG rigged? Honestly who really knows if RTG or any other software provider or even casino operator can manipulate what a player wins? If you search the threads you'll see lots of input concerning the issue and many conspiracy theories but who knows? My personal opinion, I've expressed it before is that to what benefit would a software provider such as RTG have by allowing their license holders to change the payouts? Why have RNG? ((RNG) has been tested and certified by Technical Systems Testing, guaranteeing you absolute fairness in every game.) I think that everyone should focus on the company that certifies the software for answers. They should be able to confirm or deny whether the payout % can be changed in the software since fairness is certified by them. This goes for any other software/casino that anyone would think is unfair. If it's true and we do find out that payouts can be manipulated I'm going to start betting low when they have me in looser mode and I'm going to own the casino when they mess up some night and I'm in win mode! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
  4. Oct 18, 2009
  5. skiny

    skiny Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas

    Occupation:
    Doing everyone else's job.
    Location:
    Canada
    I'm quite certain that RTG software is 100% random.

    And I randomly lose 99% of my spins.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Oct 18, 2009
  7. Mavin1

    Mavin1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Caregiver/homemaker
    Location:
    Arizona

    So true!!!!
    RTG is only fun mode or free bonus for me anymore. I won't deposit with any of them because for the most part the only one having any fun is the casino!
     
  8. Oct 18, 2009
  9. aceking123

    aceking123 Ueber Meister CAG PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    chippy
    Location:
    uk
    trg

    pffffff
     
  10. Oct 18, 2009
  11. aceking123

    aceking123 Ueber Meister CAG PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    chippy
    Location:
    uk
    rtg

    hello i would safely say that rtg is on the whole pointing to biased table games i play a fair ammount of table games roulette & cards , my card play after a audit with one rtg casino was as follows 379 losing hands 302 winning hands 43 pushes , now i know lots are going to jump in to point out that i needto play 100000s of hands as to see wether there fair but , if i give you flat out audits on all my gaming with rtg it would still be around 69% returns on roulette & cards. dont know wether this helps you in anyway , but just a little guide from another player, im sure that different casinos change the payouts some how & it always points to when you using larger bets aswell meaning 50+ bets, so best of luck to you either way you play.
     
  12. Oct 19, 2009
  13. DaveG39

    DaveG39 Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Disability
    Location:
    Glendale,CA,USA
    Actually 700+ hands is a relatively good sample (for once), but, umm, your win/loss/tie ratio is only 42/52/6, certainly well within normal variance. FWIW I play almost exclusively table games as well, at an RTG casino, and, while I am still up for the long run, my last two sessions have taken a big bite out of my profits.
     
  14. Oct 19, 2009
  15. BigSD

    BigSD Dormant account PABnononaccred3

    Occupation:
    Accountant
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks for all your replies. The point I'm getting at is maybe we shouldn't look at all RTGs as a group. My results at all RTGs as a group is quite good but my results at two individual small newish RTG casinos are bordering on the impossible. I will never play at these two casinos again but I'm curious to know how an individual RTG operator could mess with an RNG thus making some RTGs fair and some rigged.
     
  16. Oct 19, 2009
  17. nisosbar

    nisosbar Ueber Meister PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    Right here
    In terms of Blackjack or Casino Hold Em, my experience mirrors the threatstarter's. It just doesn't seem random at RTG. Consequently, I don't really play table games for normal stakes at their casinos - just for peanuts ($0.05 or $0.10) just as a way of passing time or for something different.

    Microgaming seems fair, as does Rival. But I admit, there's really no way to be absolutely sure. I just prefer heading to Atlantic City when I'm in the mood for Bonus Hold Em. I actually prefer online for slots play, not bricks & mortar casinos.
     
  18. Oct 20, 2009
  19. balcjkcak

    balcjkcak Newbie member

    Occupation:
    IT Manager
    Location:
    Switzerland
    some statistics...

    Hi,

    having played quite a bit online blackjack since my first post at Casinomeister (http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...embers/32471-first-blackjack-experiences.html) I think, that the following comparison of the behaviour of the win/loss ratios of RTG's and Playtech's blackjack games might be helpful to understand, why it's so hard, to beat RTG:

    [​IMG]

    The graphs show at each datapoint the percentage of lost hands during the previous 100 hands after removing pushs for some 4.000 hands played in an RTG and a Playtech casino. Roughly you can say that you will almost always loose during "phases" where the percentage is mostly above 55% and win during "phases" where the percentage is mostly below 50%. Anything in between depends ;)

    From the graphs it's quite obvious, that the RTG game delivers fewer but longer "phases" of both kind than the Playtech one. Typically it is not as easy to win during a long winnig "phase" as much as one (at least I) looses during a long loosing "phase". This is for me the simple explanation, why I don't like RTG's blackjack.

    During the above playing, I lost about $1.000 at the RTG game and won about 1.200 at the Playtech game... despite the fact that the total push/win/loss percentage was 8.4/43.6/48 with RTG and 8.3/41.8/49.9 with Playtech, showing an overall "better" ratio for RTG. That's of course quite annoying and means clearly for me: Never ever again RTG blackjack...

    To come back to the threads question of randomness: Obviously both games are somewhat random... but on the other hand, they lead to a different gaming experience which seems strange to me. Another observation is that Microgaming shows the same graph type as Playtech: So, one can at least rise the question, why it is possible that the "randomness" of the RTG game leads to another gaming experience than the randomness of at least two other games... the singularity is obviously on RTGs side which might be a little bit suspicous ;)

    Cheers, Juergen
     
  20. Oct 21, 2009
  21. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    For me the days of going into an RTG and betting $1 per spin, starting with a $100 and ending up anything more than broke have been over for a long time. It seems these games went to a higher variance a year or two ago. In other words, if you are losing it doesn't seem to turn around as fast anymore.


    Playing slots there, I've found that sometimes the longer you play the tighter they get. Fewer bonus rounds, lower payouts on the bonus rounds, etc.

    I only play for the biggest bonus, ie., 200% when I can get it. I will deposit $300 and add $600 in bonus. I will then go to a slot that I like, set it to 20 or 25c and put it on autoplay, stop when jackpot is hit, do not stop on feature, etc. I don't care if it takes a week or two, I will not raise that bet until I have met playthru, even if that means the machine plays while I sleep. I will admit I've awakened to some nice surprising wins. Still the bet stays down for the most part until I either meet playthru or have a significant win.

    Getting thru the playthru is easy if you have patience to stay down on the bet size long enough. You will not go broke playing 25c per spin on a high paying game like T-Rex, as example, with as big of bankroll as I hit it with. I've had several times when I've met playthru, then raised the bet and started to collect some nice wins. Funny also how the machines seem to loosen up a bit once the bonus terms are met. Call me loony but that's been my experience.

    Ive gotten up over $5000 doing it this way, several times, but by the time I'm hitting like that I have plenty of cushion for $1 and up bets. It can still be done. I guess what I'm saying is that depositing $500 and betting $5 a spin is usually not going to work. Start low and play the crap out of the machines until you meet your playthru and or hit a good one.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Oct 21, 2009
  23. marshy

    marshy Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Security
    Location:
    Australia
    I hate reading these threads.

    I like to think the major software companys are dealing an honest game or i wouldn't deposit my money. Having said that these types of threads put seeds of doubt in my mind. I know casinomeister is a watchdog for casinos paying up, just wish there was a site that would just test casino randomness for us.
     
  24. Oct 21, 2009
  25. balcjkcak

    balcjkcak Newbie member

    Occupation:
    IT Manager
    Location:
    Switzerland
    I agree, I also hate this kind of threads. But on the other hand, I realize that there is a behaviour in certain online games that is different from what I expect or what I experience in brick and mortar casinos. Taking into account that, as far as I found, RTG based casinos are more often named in context of different behaviour than others and that this confirms my own observations, I think, it's well worth discussing it. My statistics primarily had the purpose to explain my very own playing experience and to try to link these to the generic term of randomness... sorry, if this seeds doubts!

    As mentioned by some other poster in this thread, nobody can really know if it's really random or not, but typically casinos shouldn't have any interest in rigging the games, as they have there house advantage anyway. And from the statistics I made, there is nothing pointing to any non randomness. But... RTG's blackjack games still are just what I say: Different :rolleyes:
     
  26. Oct 21, 2009
  27. Mavin1

    Mavin1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Caregiver/homemaker
    Location:
    Arizona
     

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