Whine and Moan Random!

[flatflood]

<div class="bbWrapper">Hi all from down under . New member well sort of , definitly new writer. I figure the reason for the meister is mainly complaints , so why not join in and have a good old fashioned moan.<br /> I am an everyday punter , and oh boy have i taken a bath this year to date . Im in my third year at the what i now label as &#039;Grim palace&#039;. Along the way ive had the odd collect , however its not something i would be recommending to make new friends in life.<br /> Is it just me or does it seem that random outcomes seem to be a little randomly selective? I have found in my years there is a definite lean to the casino on high stakes wagers on slots both in general gameplay and features outcomes and the odds seem to change dramatically when the wagers are lowered.<br /> Maybe its just my account and its difficult to work out to the exact mark. However as an example playing &#039;Leagues of Fortune&#039; seems to get in the average area of (40-60)-1 on features pays with wagers of $4 or less but with wagers over that amount it seems to be more like an average of (20-30 )-1. <br /> Im told constantly that this is not true , even though my stats suggest otherwise and it may well be its just my seemingly constant run of &#039;bad luck&#039; on these larger wagers rather than what i suspect.<br /> The reason i have finally written something on here was down to this occurring on a daily basis for the past 10 days. Now normally i take the bad with the the mostly bad on the chin, but ive had the year from hell at the aptly named place and 10 months of losing at a 98% daily basis, playing every single day was suppose to turn around at some point....well in my mind it was. This then came to a head as some wagering beyond anything id ever done before was thrown up at them.I decided the only way was to fight fire with fire and i led with a barrage of wagers at $33.50 per spin. The game of choice was &#039;bobs bowling&#039; and predictably i was bleeding pretty quickly as i had only around 33 rounds of ammo plus any wins along the way. It quickly came to my last spin as there was only a tick over my chosen amount left..... what do you know finally the FEATURE.... this would be it, my heartache of 10 months of toil was about to be repaid....I thought after the year ive had and the past 10 days there was no way i would be denied this time- the amount was $700.00, and my hopes were in pieces over the bedroom floor and i was shattered. Random? or Randomly selective, who knows but ill be back for another showdown tomorrow, its cant be badluck all the time or can it?</div>

 

[KasinoKing]

<div class="bbWrapper">It CAN be bad luck all the time. The big problem is trying to prove it. The only way to do so is to throw VAST amounts of big bets at a game and record your overall stats and total RTP. I&#039;m talking 25,000 spins plus and well over 100 bonus features to even begin to get any sort of accurate picture.<br /> <br /> I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve heard this before, but there is absolutely no reason for a casino to run a rigged game, even if they did have the ability to do so (which MG casinos like Spin Palace do not). The long-term house-edge of their games guarantees that in the end, the house wins. Whereas getting caught cheating their players would have a VERY serious impact on their reputation - possibly forcing them out of business.<br /> <br /> Sorry about your luck, but Welcome to the best gambling forum on the net! <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/thumbsup.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":thumbsup:" title="Thumbsup :thumbsup:" data-shortname=":thumbsup:" /><br /> KK</div>

 

[randomiam]

<div class="bbWrapper"><b>takes a few goes</b><br /> <br /> hit them at smaller bets till you get the feel for the variance of each game <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/smile.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> try other casino groups to <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/smile.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /></div>

 

[dunover]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="flatflood" data-source="post: 648957" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=648957" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-648957">flatflood said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Hi all from down under . New member well sort of , definitly new writer. I figure the reason for the meister is mainly complaints , so why not join in and have a good old fashioned moan.<br /> I am an everyday punter , and oh boy have i taken a bath this year to date . Im in my third year at the what i now label as &#039;Grim palace&#039;. Along the way ive had the odd collect , however its not something i would be recommending to make new friends in life.<br /> Is it just me or does it seem that random outcomes seem to be a little randomly selective? I have found in my years there is a definite lean to the casino on high stakes wagers on slots both in general gameplay and features outcomes and the odds seem to change dramatically when the wagers are lowered.<br /> Maybe its just my account and its difficult to work out to the exact mark. However as an example playing &#039;Leagues of Fortune&#039; seems to get in the average area of (40-60)-1 on features pays with wagers of $4 or less but with wagers over that amount it seems to be more like an average of (20-30 )-1. <br /> Im told constantly that this is not true , even though my stats suggest otherwise and it may well be its just my seemingly constant run of &#039;bad luck&#039; on these larger wagers rather than what i suspect.<br /> The reason i have finally written something on here was down to this occurring on a daily basis for the past 10 days. Now normally i take the bad with the the mostly bad on the chin, but ive had the year from hell at the aptly named place and 10 months of losing at a 98% daily basis, playing every single day was suppose to turn around at some point....well in my mind it was. This then came to a head as some wagering beyond anything id ever done before was thrown up at them.I decided the only way was to fight fire with fire and i led with a barrage of wagers at $33.50 per spin. The game of choice was &#039;bobs bowling&#039; and predictably i was bleeding pretty quickly as i had only around 33 rounds of ammo plus any wins along the way. It quickly came to my last spin as there was only a tick over my chosen amount left..... what do you know finally the FEATURE.... this would be it, my heartache of 10 months of toil was about to be repaid....I thought after the year ive had and the past 10 days there was no way i would be denied this time- the amount was $700.00, and my hopes were in pieces over the bedroom floor and i was shattered. Random? or Randomly selective, who knows but ill be back for another showdown tomorrow, its cant be badluck all the time or can it? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> <br /> This effect has been spoken about before. Now, if you open a game and play indefinitely at the same stake you WILL over a period of time get their TRTP say 96.12%. This has been proven by people (including myself) getting &#039;cheat&#039; programmes which play ten spins a second say and recording the results over several hundred k or a million spins in free play.<br /> I did actually wonder about your point myself. At the same stakes we know they DO pay TRTP. I did suggest to the kktmd and others who had the time and set-up to do these experiments to play say a 100k spins, record current RTP and then multiply the stake and see how it changes the RTP curve/graph. I.E. does this have an effect short-term on the games algorithms?<br /> If a set of random outcomes on a low-variance game at the same stake was proven over a million spins (due to reel maps/win spread) say to stay within 80 and 120% on the RTP curves, then you changed your stake upwards by say 10x and knew certain wins at this stake would /could put you over the 120%, would it happen? I think that&#039;s what youre getting at here. This isn&#039;t foil-hat stuff, because without any doubt the biggest and quickest way to affect your current RTP (either up or down) is to dramatically increase stake.</div>

 

[Tirilej]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="dunover" data-source="post: 649083" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=649083" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-649083">dunover said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> This effect has been spoken about before. Now, if you open a game and play indefinitely at the same stake you WILL over a period of time get their TRTP say 96.12%. This has been proven by people (including myself) getting &#039;cheat&#039; programmes which play ten spins a second say and recording the results over several hundred k or a million spins in free play.<br /> I did actually wonder about your point myself. At the same stakes we know they DO pay TRTP. I did suggest to the kktmd and others who had the time and set-up to do these experiments to play say a 100k spins, record current RTP and then multiply the stake and see how it changes the RTP curve/graph. I.E. does this have an effect short-term on the games algorithms?<br /> If a set of random outcomes on a low-variance game at the same stake was proven over a million spins (due to reel maps/win spread) say to stay within 80 and 120% on the RTP curves, then you changed your stake upwards by say 10x and knew certain wins at this stake would /could put you over the 120%, would it happen? I think that&#039;s what youre getting at here. This isn&#039;t foil-hat stuff, because without any doubt the biggest and quickest way to affect your current RTP (either up or down) is to dramatically increase stake. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> But since he will not play all those spins at one session, he could just as well continue to lose, no matter how many spins he makes.<br /> Then I go in making one single spin and win it all at once. That&#039;s random <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/smile.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> Stop chasing!</div>

 

[Googobucs]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="flatflood" data-source="post: 648957" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=648957" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-648957">flatflood said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Hi all from down under . New member well sort of , definitly new writer. I figure the reason for the meister is mainly complaints , so why not join in and have a good old fashioned moan. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Hello &amp; Welcome<br /> I have to strongly disagree with your assessment of what the Meister is all about. Sure there are complaints, but there is also a lot of positive interactions. <br /> It&#039;s a place to come and meet people that have a similar interest as you.<br /> It&#039;s a place to learn and hopefully make you a better player<br /> It&#039;s a place to share your good times - winning screen shots &amp; Video&#039;s<br /> <br /> It&#039;s so much more than a place a to complain. I&#039;m sorry that you see it this way. I hope you will stick around and see what it really has to offer.</div>

 

[petro]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="KasinoKing" data-source="post: 648963" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=648963" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-648963">KasinoKing said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Whereas getting caught cheating their players would have a VERY serious impact on their reputation - possibly forcing them out of business. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Yes, that reason makes it less likely that a casino would cheat/rig games. They have too much to lose if they are caught.</div>

 

[dunover]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="Tirilej" data-source="post: 649087" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=649087" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-649087">Tirilej said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> But since he will not play all those spins at one session, he could just as well continue to lose, no matter how many spins he makes.<br /> Then I go in making one single spin and win it all at once. That&#039;s random <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/smile.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> Stop chasing! </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> It doesn&#039;t really matter how many sessions he has, what I&#039;m saying is that if he makes a million spins whether in one session or over 100, he WOULD see a return of the TRTP set for that particular game, as the law of large numbers takes effect. My point has nothing to do with &#039;random&#039;.<br /> The reason why there are those with RTP&#039;s pathetically low and those like you refer to winning in a single spin and thus having a high RTP is the fact that most players <i>think</i> they have played &#039;millions&#039; or &#039;hundreds of thousands&#039; of spins when in fact they have played thousands or a few tens-of-thousands and are nowhere near &#039;levelling out&#039; their long-term RTP. This is due to the fact that the huge majority of play in online-casino world is by players taking bonuses at different casinos and trying their luck and then moving on, so seldom do they experience the exact TRTP of the games they play because they simply aren&#039;t there long enough and either cash-out a profit (because their short-term RTP is &gt;100%) or lose their deposit for the opposite reason, that they are on the down-curve.<br /> The effect I describe above is exponentially increased if the new player chooses HV games.</div>