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Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by HUNTS!!!!!, Feb 7, 2008.

    Feb 7, 2008
  1. HUNTS!!!!!

    HUNTS!!!!! Dormant account

    Occupation:
    another
    Location:
    UK
    ive been flicking through this forum for a while now im a low roller that plays poker quite a bit and often spends poker winnings in the casino to try and get one of those lovely screenies i see all the time!
    theres 1 thing i still dont understand about online slots (small brain sry) is the random part.in a casino (B&M) the slot is'nt random it will pay the jackpot when it has received the amount of money it needs to drop in the big 1?
    so casino's (B&M) state on there slots 78% ecpected payout e.t.c
    this is the bit i dont get........
    online casino's state 94% ish for there slots?
    why do i keep reading online slots are random when surely if u have a % payout it cant be?
    ive had a 1200 win on dinomite (i think its called) on ladbrokes i left the slot straight away over 18 months ago...i load the slot up on laddies now and the win is still in view does it have a memory? have you still got exactly the same chance of hitting a feature on the next press?
    personally i dont think you have
    could someone try and explain in simple english sorry if i sound thick but it has bothered me for ages!!!!
    thx in advance
     
  2. Feb 7, 2008
  3. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    I'm not sure I can deal with this again!!!!!!!

    Joking, sorry there Hunts - it's just this question is asked and disputed and discussed and deconstructed and debated over and over again - when the truth is really really really simple and straightforward.

    There are a number of combinations possible that a slot can display, each relating to a randomnly generated number. The more commonly occuring combinations pay the lowest amounts, the rarest combinations paying the highest amounts. Which number randomnly comes back from the server dictates what is displayed and how much you win or lose.

    The "payout percentage" is based on the OVERALL play on a particular slot, which in turn is based on the expected delivery of random numbers over any given period of time. There is no 'memory', there is no functionality to adjust the slot to meet the expected percentage.

    The shorter time you play a slot, the more variance in payout percentage you'll experience. Play one consistently for ten years every single minute of every single day and -- guess what -- you'll end up bang on the 95% (or whatever) it's supposed to be.

    Check out the conspiracy arguments about play that relates to how much you've won or lost... or how a slot or table or wheel has performed in the past (or most recently video poker)

    CASINO'S ADMIT THAT THERE IS A CONSIDERABLE HOUSE EDGE ON THEIR GAMES. AS A RESULT THEY MAKE MONEY. PERIOD. FULL STOP. THEY MAKE LOTS OF MONEY BASED ON THE GAMES PERFORMING AS THEY ARE DESIGNED TO.

    That's it. :D
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Feb 7, 2008
  5. solarrocker

    solarrocker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Customer Support Manager
    Location:
    Netherlands Antilles
    Like somebody on this forum said before.

    Real casino slots designed to take your money

    Online casino slots designed to take your money.

    Both if lucky you make some out of it, kinda the 1 in 10 effect. 10 people play 1 person walks out with slightly ticker wallet, 9 others try again to get their chance. If you look at pay out percentages it then based on those 10 people they might not all get the same pay out percentage but overall they do.

    Even shorter, if real or online casinos didn't make money they just wouldn't exist. So there's always a dis advantage.

    And what Slotster! says is right, the shorter you play, the more variance in payout percentage you'll experience. Casinos don't need to adjust slots based on your play as it is already a proven money making technology.

    Spin spin, money goes in, spin spin, did I win?
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Feb 7, 2008
  7. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    What Slotster said hit the nail on the head. The long-term payback % is calculated by adding up the cumulative payouts for every possible combination of the reels, and dividing that payout by the total number of combinations.

    For example, if the five reels have the following number of symbols:
    Reel 1: 45
    Reel 2: 36
    Reel 3: 37
    Reel 4: 48
    Reel 5: 49

    The total number of combinations is 45x36x37x48x49 = 140,978,880. If the sum of the payouts of each such combination totals 133,929,936 then the long-term return of the game is 133929936/140978880 = 95%

    Regarding the Dino-Might game and "memory". The only thing the software remembers is the state of the game when you last left it. So yes, if you haven't played any more spins since your big win, every time you go into the game you will still see that big win as if it just happened. But this has nothing to do with the server "remembering" your last win and adjusting your future payouts accordingly - that does not happen. Remembering the state of each game IS important, however, most notably with bonus rounds. Suppose you exit a game half-way through your free spins. When you go back into the game, you would like to play your remaining free spins, right? This is why it saves the state of the game.
     
    2 people like this.
  8. Feb 7, 2008
  9. HUNTS!!!!!

    HUNTS!!!!! Dormant account

    Occupation:
    another
    Location:
    UK
    thanks guys did'nt realise i had to be a mathmetician to work it out lol:eek:

    B&M slots DONT work this way though do they?
     
  10. Feb 7, 2008
  11. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!

    Yep... Exactly like that! What DO NOT work that way are UK fruit machines where, exactly as you describe, they take a pre-determined amount of money before giving some back.

    There is an influx of random percentage video slots into the UK now, the likes of "Rainbow Riches", "Holy Grail" etc - this is a good thing (not least because fruit machines of old are borrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring!!)
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Feb 7, 2008
  13. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    B&M video slots probably do.

    Reel slots are slightly different, both online and in B&M's. Usually, instead of having repeat occurrences of each symbol on a reel strip, they will be there once but the probability of it appearing is weighted accordingly.

    For example, in a video slot, suppose there are a total of 6 symbols repeated with different frequencies such that there are 30 stops on the reel. Suppose one of those symbols only appears twice out of the 30 symbols, it's probability is 1/15.

    On a 3-reel weighted version, the symbol would appear once but instead of having a 1/6 chance of appearing, it would be weighted so that it has a 1/15 chance of coming up.

    Regardless of whether using a single weighted symbol on a small reel strip, or spreading the weight out over a longer reel strip, they're both still random.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Feb 7, 2008
  15. HUNTS!!!!!

    HUNTS!!!!! Dormant account

    Occupation:
    another
    Location:
    UK
    do u think total stake has anything to do with a slot then or would it play just as "random" if u was playing .10 cent or 50 bux spins?
    ive noticed when playing at low stakes it seems to be "hot" so i up stakes and i get "cold turkey":D
     
  16. Feb 7, 2008
  17. SlotsWizard

    SlotsWizard Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    I currently work for the Wizard of Odds
    Location:
    North of Antarctica
    That's been debated. It's hard to say, but I think with most online casinos you get the same probabilities across the board.

    In land casinos, however, the lower-denomination slots tend to have a larger house edge than larger-denomination slots. Which I find interesting since you can bet $20 or more a spin on a penny slot. :rolleyes: In a B&M casino if you want to bet that much you're probably better off playing a larger-denomination machine but with fewer coins per bet.
     
  18. Feb 7, 2008
  19. TDTAT

    TDTAT Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Poker
    Location:
    Gambleville
    :thumbsup:Thank you Slotster. My thank you button does not work or I have
    not figured out how to use it. Also thank you for letting me paste
    it on my site. I added this at the end in regards to the highlighted text:

    "If the bottom part makes you want to quit gambling like it did me
    here is a link: You must register/login in order to see the link. " :lolup:
     
  20. Feb 7, 2008
  21. NASHVEGAS

    NASHVEGAS Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,

    Occupation:
    LOL
    Location:
    MERS
    FWIW, BandM slots are in the initial stages of all becoming server based rather than individually chip based. Prolly good for the BandM's overhead wise and changing payouts on the fly will be much simplier but regulation (whatever that is) will be more burdisome. Would not surprise me as BandM slots all move to a server based system that the same "online conspiracy theories" arise for BandM's. That said, casino executives believe the BandM slot customer is so unsophisicated that the trustworthiness of server based slots will be accepted. Unfortunately, the casino executives are probably correct!
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Feb 7, 2008
  23. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I don't think these new 500 video slots are totally random - not in the same way as online slots are.
    I recall VinylWeatherman saying they work on some sort of 'bingo' system or something....?

    Hopefully he will contribute to this thread soon...

    KK
     
  24. Feb 7, 2008
  25. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    Yeah... I meant that they're not "collect money then return" like fruit machines... I read somewhere about the system being slightly different for selecting the outcome.
     
  26. Feb 8, 2008
  27. paul02085

    paul02085 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Fishing :)
    Location:
    USA
    The exact reason casinos are filled with 50 line 1 cent video slots with payouts in the upper 80's. They are a license to steal and the casinos know it.
     
  28. Feb 8, 2008
  29. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    Oh, you sillies and your reel stop threories. They don't put stops on reels anymore. The computer determines where it stops and what symbols are displayed....you know the ones that make you say, oh yeah!...or oh, sh!t! ;)
     

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