Random? I think not....

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
I went in and played for real just to satisfy my curiousity...(I do seem to blow a lot of money to prove something but ahh well...that is just me) and I found that the RTG games have been wieghted so heavily..that it will be like finding a needle in a haystack to win there anymore.

I played Caesars for hundreds of spins and this is the pattern I got (no bonus now in all the spins)

I also tried the Honeybee one since they are similar and found the same pattern..Yes, I know I will be ragged on but it seems mighty strange that many are seeng and complaining a lot about what I predicted is happening a long time ago when I was pretty much put out to pasture then saying I was wrong and that wouldn't happen etc etc.....but it has come to pass all my warnings, and you guys are now complaing of what I pointed out over a year ago when I was poohed poohed and told I was "dreaming" cause casinos won't do what I said they were doing........and now I have another...for players..

I spun hundreds on both these games and this is what is happening..back to back...until I see the last reel trigger...

Caesars: When I say "no show" that means it didn't even pass the window, it was MISSING during these spins.

5 spins, a wild in each spin with a no show of colosseum passing in the window on the end for bonus trigger each spin

10 spins, a wild in each spin with a no show of colosseum passing in the window on the end for bonus trigger each spin

1 spin spins, no wild in each spin with a show of colosseum on the end for bonus trigger each spin

1 spin spins, no wild in each spin with a show of colosseum on the end for bonus trigger each spin

4 spins, a wild in each spin with a no show of colosseum passing in the window on the end for bonus trigger each spin

8 spins, a wild in each spin with a no show of colosseum passing in the window on the end for bonus trigger each spin

2 spin spins, no wild in each spin with a show of colosseum passing in the window on the end for bonus trigger each spin

These spins are listed as they happened continuously...no break in the spins..I wrote down each one as it was happening and this is what I got, and this pretty much repeated itself in both these games for hundreds of spins...

I would like others to start watching the bonus trigger reel on these games and count how many spins it takes to show in a window much less pas by on the reel while spinning. These triggers did not even PASS by the window while spinning on all these spins...

Yes, the casinos are definitely gotten to the point of scary in the ways they are changing these games...even the GOOD casinos are now doing it..and this one is from a GOOD casino...be wise in where you are spending your money...RTG's are not the ones to play at at this time IMO...there are a few good ones left where the money actually lasts....play them until RTG operators get back on the wagon of being fair again..

As we say, talk with you money...and walk .....when the time comes you realize it is no longer "right".

.

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vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
That could be an easy one to analyse.

What you should look for is a CORRELATION between the appearance or not of a wild, and the appearance or not of a colosseum. IF the game is random, there should be none. What passes by in the window can be discounted, the last reel on this slot is 100 or so symbols long!! What matters are the stopping positions.

If the game is "cheating", then the last reel will be weighted so as to tend to avoid the colosseum when a wild is shown on one of the others.

Using statistics, you can reach a "proof" of sorts by showing that there is a 95% or greater probability that your results are NOT merely down to chance, but demonstrate the validity of your starting theorem.

The small sample quoted will be far too small to do this, and will only convince those who already believe RTG rigs the games.

The current understanding is that RTG "cheat" players by varying the overall return of the slots between the range 91% and 97.5%. Prolonged poor results are more likely to be representative of the use of the 91% RTP setting, than an indication of a specific weighting against bonus rounds.

A drop of 4% in RTP (95% to 91% - the most likely thing RTG casinos are doing) is SIGNIFICANT, and regular players of a game will certainly notice the fall in playing time per unit of bankroll.
 

LonelyHearts

Banned User - racist bastard
Joined
Oct 18, 2009
Location
Mobile, AL
I went in and played for real just to satisfy my curiousity...(I do seem to blow a lot of money to prove something but ahh well...that is just me) and I found that the RTG games have been wieghted so heavily..that it will be like finding a needle in a haystack to win there anymore.

I played Caesars for hundreds of spins and this is the pattern I got (no bonus now in all the spins)

I also tried the Honeybee one since they are similar and found the same pattern..Yes, I know I will be ragged on but it seems mighty strange that many are seeng and complaining a lot about what I predicted is happening a long time ago when I was pretty much put out to pasture then saying I was wrong and that wouldn't happen etc etc.....but it has come to pass all my warnings, and you guys are now complaing of what I pointed out over a year ago when I was poohed poohed and told I was "dreaming" cause casinos won't do what I said they were doing........and now I have another...for players..

I spun hundreds on both these games and this is what is happening..back to back...until I see the last reel trigger...

Caesars: When I say "no show" that means it didn't even pass the window, it was MISSING during these spins.

5 spins, a wild in each spin with a no show of colosseum passing in the window on the end for bonus trigger each spin

10 spins, a wild in each spin with a no show of colosseum passing in the window on the end for bonus trigger each spin

1 spin spins, no wild in each spin with a show of colosseum on the end for bonus trigger each spin

1 spin spins, no wild in each spin with a show of colosseum on the end for bonus trigger each spin

4 spins, a wild in each spin with a no show of colosseum passing in the window on the end for bonus trigger each spin

8 spins, a wild in each spin with a no show of colosseum passing in the window on the end for bonus trigger each spin

2 spin spins, no wild in each spin with a show of colosseum passing in the window on the end for bonus trigger each spin

These spins are listed as they happened continuously...no break in the spins..I wrote down each one as it was happening and this is what I got, and this pretty much repeated itself in both these games for hundreds of spins...

I would like others to start watching the bonus trigger reel on these games and count how many spins it takes to show in a window much less pas by on the reel while spinning. These triggers did not even PASS by the window while spinning on all these spins...

Yes, the casinos are definitely gotten to the point of scary in the ways they are changing these games...even the GOOD casinos are now doing it..and this one is from a GOOD casino...be wise in where you are spending your money...RTG's are not the ones to play at at this time IMO...there are a few good ones left where the money actually lasts....play them until RTG operators get back on the wagon of being fair again..

As we say, talk with you money...and walk .....when the time comes you realize it is no longer "right".

.

.
I've noticed and said the same thing about RTG in a post. The trigger symbol just disappears or speeds up. I know you are telling the truth. I loaded my netspend card 10 days ago with $500. I have not spent 1 red cent. Something just came over me and told me you FOOL! So im going to pay my bills with it when they come due. I refuse to be tempted anymore. I REFUSE!!! I know these games are fixed and predermine. In this economy you better believe the casinos are losing big depositors. I have accepted the fact online gambling is not for me.
 

nisosbar

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Location
Right here
I trust very few of the RTG casinos, personally.

Now, I've set up accounts with lots of the RTG casinos (the ones recommended here), and I know everyone raves about Inet and Jackpot and a few others; I've deposited and played for months now, but I have not had hits anywhere near as healthy and frequent as Rival or even MG. In fact, I think I have gotten a single big hit on RTG - like 400x - since the beginning of last summer. Meanwhile, it seems like every time I log on to Rival, I can count on a 100x hit at least once per session, maybe once every two sessions. And of course, occasionally even bigger hits. Obviously this is anecdotal but that's why I don't deposit all that much with RTG.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
I will say it again, RTG casino operators have lost their way.
frequent as Rival or even MG.
I also say there are a lot of other software casinos out there that have kept in line as to what the story line is.

We KNOW gamblers will gamble , win, go back and lose double sometimes as what was won...we also know that gamblers need a small adrenaline rush to keep coming back, to lose that plus some.

The SMART casino operators do understand this and give the player a thrill every once in a while whether it is a small one or not, whereas, some casino operators have lost the story line and is going in for the kill...RTG has done this IMO.

They will also be their own enemy and lose more than they can actually suck out from any more players that come to realize, it has become a lose, lose proposition there as the players leave for better and more fertile grounds. It used to be a lose, lose, win, lose, lose, and we acepted that but the wins have been removed . Again, this is JMO


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nisosbar

Ueber Meister
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Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Location
Right here
We KNOW gamblers will gamble , win, go back and lose double sometimes as what was won...we also know that gamblers need a small adrenaline rush to keep coming back, to lose that plus some.

The SMART casino operators do understand this and give the player a thrill every once in a while whether it is a small one or not, whereas, some casino operators have lost the story line and is going in for the kill...RTG has done this IMO.

They will also be their own enemy and lose more than they can actually suck out from any more players that come to realize, it has become a lose, lose proposition there as the players leave for better and more fertile grounds. It used to be a lose, lose, win, lose, lose, and we acepted that but the wins have been removed . Again, this is JMO


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I agree with you. Like most gamblers, I am aware that the house will ALWAYS have an edge. That is, I am prepared to lose more than I win over the long-term. But I can afford to lose $25 here and there. It's not about spending and losing funds I have alotted to my entertainment budget. Regardless of the form of entertainment I spend that money on (hookers, blow, fine wine, theater, etc.), I do not ever anticipate getting that money back. With online casinos, the slots aren't going to change all that much, and the game loses its novelty, but the entertainment comes from the occasional big win - almost like a piggy bank or shaking the money tree. IMO, RTG gives out few free chips and returns less to the typical player. Playing slots on RTG sometimes seems more akin to playing instant lottery tickets (and their 60% or whatever RTP) than playing roulette (which is what, like 98 or 99%).

I really don't understand what the appeal is over Rival. I do enjoy some RTG games, and I'm not trying to be negative here. I like Goldbeard, Sunken Treasure, Paydirt and Aztec. :) But when there are so many other more lucrative slots elsewhere, people are just going to move on.
 

GGW Laurie

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
In the Beautiful South !!
Im just getting tired of RTG in general, i never thought i would say that but ive noticed the same thing as the OP, its frustrating and its just not with RTG that i have noticed this pattern, maybe the casinos are having rough times too due to the economy, myself, im not here to give them a BAILOUT:D.

They are talking about making gambling legal along with pot on one of the stations i watch, going to be alot more compitition out there if this happens, they need to make the players feel all warm and fuzzy instead of trying to get that last dollar without all the teasing, where the symbal slows down, speeds up and passes on by........just my thoughts for what its worth:)..................laurie
 

Wildfire7

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Location
UK
I have found quite frequently its an all or nothing scenario on some of these slots. You can go a couple of thousand spins with hardly a bonus round in site, then another time it goes crazy retrigger after retrigger, bonus rounds appearing on the first spin etc. Its almost like they are all bunched up together hence the long dry cold spells.

This I have found happens on all the softwares not limited just to RTG's
Sometimes you can kinda sense these terrible long dry spells, best to either get out fast or play minimum bet to ride out the "slot turbulance"

Wouldn't get too disheartened by it, i'm sure it happens to us all, but you will get lucky one night with some big hits! :thumbsup:

Mike
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
Sometimes you can kinda sense these terrible long dry spells, best to either get out fast or play minimum bet to ride out the "slot turbulance"
Actually these "slot turbulances" have just started in the last 2 years...go back and see how many winners there were before the law changed..and casinos then look at the last 2 years where they tightened up..

It is not just a losing spell that is the issue, it is the disregard of players that is the worst of this ...the ones that have been playing at these same casinos for over 10 years and KNOW how it was and the way it should be vs what they are doing now and that is making a killin off the unwary gambler that strolls into their casinos...

I am not upset or bitter, just so darn disapointed and resigned to what they are doing because I loved their games...I have accepted the fact that they will continue to drain all they can from a player ..and this is why I have uninstalled them and thankfully I have found new stomping grounds that are on the same level as I have been used to that RTG was before the greed.....

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Mavin1

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Location
Arizona
Does any of RTG reps ever come to the forum and answer these ever increasing questions? Or do they not really care?
 

nisosbar

Ueber Meister
PABnonaccred
Joined
Aug 28, 2009
Location
Right here
Does any of RTG reps ever come to the forum and answer these ever increasing questions? Or do they not really care?
Personally, I don't think they care. The RTG business model must be, if existing customers are dissatisfied, just go find some new customers.

But you see the problem with that model is, you do reach a saturation point where you can't find new customers, because every online gambler out there already KNOWS about RTG, has played there, and has moved on to Rival. :D
 

bAdSmoker

Experienced Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2005
Location
USA
Hell! I just recently closed my account with Royal Joker, More like Royal Joke!

I deposited $100 and It was gone in less than 5mins betting around .80c a spin or less. And this was on a wide range of games, Never a hit 10x bet! Seriously.
Either that or you get this pattern, Spin 1 = No win, Spin 2 = No win, Spin 3 = No win, Spin 4 = 2xbet, Spin 4 = No win, Spin 5 = 1xbet Etc.... Over and over.

So then I said hell, Maybe It was just the games that I chose, So then off to make another deposit of $100, Guess what? The same Results on the next set of games I chose.

Finally after my fifth deposit with NOT ONE BONUS ROUND! on any game, And no win over 10x my bet, And $500 less in my account "Feels like I just tossed It out the window".

I was pissed the hell off and irritated, I mean how In the hell is this shit random?? When I spin hundreds of spins at a modest $0.45 - $0.72c - $0.80c and a $1.00 or so every other 20th or so spin and still nothing!? This is stupid.

Yes, Royal Joker gave me some great bonuses.. But all the means shit to me if you're going to rob me.

Sorry, Not sure If I'm allowed to swear or not, But assuming that everyone here is an adult, Then yea.

I apologize If, I offended anyone. I just needed to let out some steam.


Onto the RTG thing, I've been playing at them since they were out and I can tell you for sure they're are not random LOL. No way in hell! You can notice patterns all the damn time! For example I'm sure everyone has had this scenario where you make a deposit and chose your game to play and you start spinning and oh hey! Two Scatters! Oh hey! Two Scatters! Oh hey! Two Scatters! 2,000 spins later.. Hey! Two Scatters!! COME ON! ARE YOU KIDDING ME? That is no way in hell random! I've also played real video slots in vegas for hours and I've never seen anything like that happen ever!

I honestly do think there is some sort of formula the software developers coded that looks like this! If Casino revenue minus 'X' amount then slots #2,#4,#6,#7 gain +$ revenue, Stop + revenue when 'X' = +value.

And the random jackpots? Heh.. I'd really love to know how they are truly triggered.. I have an idea its something like this, [Set 'Random Jackpot Trigger' slot#14TallyHo = 'sequence pattern' on date+time= 'pick random' betvalue= 'pick random betvaluerange' 'betvaluerange = '$0.01-$125.00 - set
'Random Jackpot Trigger' = 4:31PM - 11/25/09 - $0.40 - 'sequence pattern = Reel1='051', Reel2='017', Reel3='710', Reel4='510', Reel5='280'.]

Pretty much, It's already predetermined like everything else.
Picks a random date,time, betvalue and Reel Sequence that the random will hit on, And It will only trigger the random if the correct bet size was wagered, So let's say it set the random jackpot to be won on only a $0.20 bet and you got the sequence betting $5.00 a spin nothing would happen.
It might also pick more than one random betvalue, For example $0.20&$5.00 or It could just do it in a range of betvalue like $2.00-$12.50.

Ah hell, I'm going on and on about crap lol. Well It's just a thought of mine.
No way am I saying this is how it's programmed just a thought.
 

I BEEN THERE

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 19, 2006
Location
Keep Sniffin ~!
Been a while for me to post... Although I have been reading quite often & there have truly been some wonderful reads.

Having read all these post in this thread, I have just a small question. If they are playing badly and RTG is not the only one, MG is very bad as well these days and has been for a while. WHY do you ( we ) keep handing them our money ? Do we truly think we are gonna hit the big one ? Or is it truly for entertainment ( which we could do in play mode )? After the huge payout in the Grand Slam, I would have to guess it will be months if not years for peeps to repay that loss therefore not seeing too much in the win column for many, many players ! I, myself have NEVER seen MG play as badly as they are right now therefore I cannot continue to feed the desperate monster at the moment.
Until we stop feeding the tight site(s) and FORCE them to change or lose just like the players have been for so long, they will keep on doing as they do and we will keep reading about disappointments and frustrations everywhere on the net. I do realize affiliates and those raking in kickbacks don't like that idea but they have never been a concern of mine. I personally have never been keen on the fact someone ELSE besides the house benefits from my losses or knows my business period. Sorry, my own feelings on that matter.


On another note : I have a few questions that have been eating away at me so I have to ask.

How many American readers/players won ANYTHING in the Grand slam ?
How many American readers/players have done well online this year ?


Lastly, How many players actually take the time out to write or tell these site(s) what they feel ? I know, I do.


I BEEN THERE
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
I BEEN THERE, bAdSmoker, it is nice to see others that have been doing this for a long time reply to this thread. Thank you. Whether or not one agrees is not what is the point. You input is appreciated, good or bad.

The point I am trying to make is, things have been drastically changing on the casino front which is hurting the players and it seems that some always want "proof" which will never happen except if the casino screwed up which they got caught once on the Green Light slot but there again I was told it didn't happen until the casino (I think) said yes they changed the payout cause it was wrong. But it was still changed and no one still believed even after it was ADMITTED too.

We , as gamblers would like to believe all is on the up and up but when it gets thrown in your face (as all the errors I kept pointing out and was told it was my imagination until I posted it here), only then did the casino show up and "fix" the errors.

Casino will not own up to any changes. They do not have to. Only a long time player, that plays religiously at the same casinos will know if something is "off". And these casinos have been "off" for the last few years...
Lastly, How many players actually take the time out to write or tell these site(s) what they feel ?
I always contact the casino a few times first if I find something "off" and if no response or get blown off, I contact the rep here a few times, and if the same happens (which it does) I finally come here and point out the same isssue here until it gets noticed.

What I find is, that the only time a casino or rep really looks into an issue is when it gets posted. I never, ever say I am posting it when I get shown the door, I just do it. Maybe one day, the casinos and/or reps take these issues seriously before it hits the forum and makes them look very bad.

I will try the RTG's again sometime in the futre to see if anything has "shifted" back, close to the way it should be, but not just yet. Right now, I am playing at other good casinos (some on the list, some not that have been tried and true) and getting the enjoyment that should be from the monies spent.

Hopefully others will do the same and force these casinos back to being more fair like they used to be and remove thos huge randoms that are ONLY a tease and get back to getting players on board again and willing to spend their monies at their places again.
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4 of a kind

Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Location
New York
Does any of RTG reps ever come to the forum and answer these ever increasing questions? Or do they not really care?


Does anyone really expect a rep. to come on any forum and jeopardize their job by admitting their site sucks, or their site cranked down percentages, or any other distasteful truths about the hand that feeds them. The only time we got any useful information was that poster that once worked for an online casino and let a few cats out of the bag.

Although many accredited casinos have reps here, that do help with issues that are usually easy to deal with, many of them also ran for the hills when they couldn't put out the fire.

I couldn't even begin to recall all the serious issues that went unanswered even to this day. Many good and serious forum posters are on the side lines recently as a result of getting tired of beating a dead horse.

I'm happy we have some reps here that do help out, usually with payout bullshit, then we express our great thanks for them helping a player that never should of needed help getting their money in the first place.

Reps will come and go here, as they have in the past, cause in reality it's nothing more then spam for them. Once it gets beyond the unnecessary help we needed in the first place, and the clever spam they get to throw around, their gone.

They're not here cause they like us, they're getting paid to make unnecessary bullshit right and get to spam by doing it.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
4 of a kind:I couldn't even begin to recall all the serious issues that went unanswered even to this day. Many good and serious forum posters are on the side lines recently as a result of getting tired of beating a dead horse.

I'm happy we have some reps here that do help out, usually with payout bullshit, then we express our great thanks for them helping a player that never should of needed help getting their money in the first place.
Excellently put and great observation. I agree with this totally especially with
Many good and serious forum posters are on the side lines recently as a result of getting tired of beating a dead horse
I stopped posting for a while until I kept getting some errors on the games I was playing and all the frustration came out again....yes, it seems like one is beating a dead horse especially when you have so many others wanting "PROOF" and not really believing this is truly happening...only way one can have concrete proof is to be behind the scenes and THEY do not quite GET that yet......ahhhh well...

.
 

heatherad

Dormant account
Joined
May 12, 2007
Location
Canada
Does any of RTG reps ever come to the forum and answer these ever increasing questions? Or do they not really care?

The most successful casinos are the ones who have people running them that can charm the panties off a nun. :)
They care....about getting the bucks :D
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Location
Left Hungary
heatherad:The most successful casinos are the ones who have people running them that can charm the panties off a nun.
They care....about getting the bucks
OMG! Too funny , and too true! :lolup:

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DaveG39

Registered
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Location
Glendale,CA,USA
Playing slots on RTG sometimes seems more akin to playing instant lottery tickets (and their 60% or whatever RTP) than playing roulette (which is what, like 98 or 99%).
FWIW Single Zero (Euro) Roulette is 97.3% and Double Zero (American) Roulette is 94.5% So, if you're playing slots you suspect are only 91%...
 

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