Your Input Please Rage against the Bonus....

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
THE BONUS:

AKA THE
BULLSHITTING OF NUMEROUS UNINFORMED SLOTTERS

OK, I've had enough of this archaic and unimagaintive crapola.

Bin the bloody things!

1. Times have changed - we need better ideas.
2. Cut the reams of terms and conditions by a third.
3. Cut PABs/disputes plus grief for casino CS.

Let's face it, "200% up to $2000!" screams the headline ad! And the gullible take it all in, not realizing the math is hopelessly EV- with ridiculous WR. Of course, you're not going to get easy money. So an 'attractive' 100% to £50 say? Only 35x B WR? Look closer. At those levels stakes will be low. 6 hours and thousands of spins later, you have actually cashed-in your bonus! Way-hey! You've earned 50 quid for 6 hours, about the same you'd get in MacDonald's.

Sod's law you win big and see it dribbled away chasing WR. Or you accidentally over-bet. Or you don't see that many slots are on the 'list of doom' for bonus play and yes! you wanted to play a few of them. You spend your 6 hours chipping away at WR, thinking "I'm nearly there!" Oh no you're not, because the sly f*ckers have a term which means unless you have played only slots by Gonorrhea Games the contribution is only 50 or 75%. 2 more hours needed - "Oh, NO! It's my bedtime now.."

I seldom take them now. Saves reading tedious terms and seeing my fave games excluded. I win when I win, not 6 hours later if I can hang in there long enough.

So, we have Trada say with cash feed-ins as you play so you get a %age but in cash. Withdraw when you want, you've earned it.

We have Guts and EU Casino etc. with no-wagering Free Games. Cash again, do with them as you will, win all you win.

So, how about CASH bonuses like Trada's? A decent wedge of FS with no wagering when you sign-up, subject to deposits/play?
Or, God forbid, a decent loyalty cash-scheme as you play like Videoslots does? None of this Microgaming crap whereby you play 10,000 quids' of games and you get a poxy tenner of points which need wagering 35x, but a decent plan?

Just think casinos - you'd retain players like Trada and VS do. Not just attract fly-by-night bonus-seekers most of whom won't deposit again once they realize how poor a proposition your 100% SUB was. You could thin your terms out, give your reps a breather on CM and let your CS have a few extra coffees or sessions with the emery-board.

COME ON! You can and should do better.....
 

mac72

Threatening behaviour - PITA
The T+c's are where the nightmare is for everybody involved. This has obviously evolved over time but i can't help thinking its now over enginerred.
Surely you can set max bets that your software can recognise which won't allow overbetting when there is a bonus in play, and not let the funds be played on disallowed games (open roulette in betat with a bonus the funds wont show so the tech is there somewhere). Do that and there's no management required apart from kyc ??
 

dionysus

can turn wine into water
CAG
MM
I've actually never had a problem with a 100% SUB/dep match nor run afoul of any terms. I read the Ts and Cs and accept the basic ones along the lines of:

wager X times
dont bet over 5 bucks (or 6.5 in some cases)
play slots

I LIKE the challenge of grinding down WR because I've the extra play time with the doubled bankroll of my limited deposit funds.

If I'm flush I don't take one

I appreciate there's casinos have overly complicated terms and such.
But I've never had any issues.
I stick to slots and keep my bets where I'd be playing anyway (under $3) and never had any headaches.
 

lockinlove

Staring into the sun
PABaccred
lets face it. Alot of these terms are in place to freeroll players.

We have seen casinos put restrictions in place so people cant breach the rules. Slotsmillion wont let you play restricted games or go over max bet. Same with videoslots. So it can be done. And casinos that do this, should get tops on any list out there.

All accredited casinos should have to do this. They get traffic to their site for being accredited and in return they save this site on PAB's lol

As for bonuses. For me Wager free is the best of whatever the choice is :D
 

Googobucs

Meister Member
I have to agree. It's time to dump the bonus structure completely. B&M's don't offer this. They reward you for your play in various ways and the online guys need to adopt the same strategy. Bonus money has a 1X play through and they don't give a damn how you play it or how much you cash out.
 

mrshyguy

Experienced Member
For me I never take a bonus at all if it requires some playthrough, do prefer the free spins idea and what you win is yours.......

the required play through on some bonuses is beyond ridiculous and practically impossible to achieve by most.

I say ban the bonus :D
 

weesie

Ueber Meister
I am with you dunover!

I rarely take a deposit bonus any more. I never make it through wagering and just

the thought of that much wagering hanging over my head from the beginning

is just too overwhelming and sucks all the fun right out of playing.

If they throw me a freebie then great. I attempt wagering and many times have

succeeded. Kind of ironic, really. But then too, the freebie, at least at the casinos

I can play are sticky and have a max cash-out. But at least I don't have any money

invested in those.

I got a $30 St. Patricks Day bonus from Lucky Red. Wagering was 10x with a

max cash-out of 10x. I made wagering and had $181 withdrawable. Took it right

then and there because I know if I would have tried for that $300 max, I would

have lost what I had.
 

dionysus

can turn wine into water
CAG
MM
For me I never take a bonus at all if it requires some playthrough, do prefer the free spins idea and what you win is yours.......

the required play through on some bonuses is beyond ridiculous and practically impossible to achieve by most.

I say ban the bonus :D
Makes sense. One difference though is - when you go to the b and m you likely bring a bigger bankroll. At home, some play with smaller deposits to eff about (example a twenty max) for those low rollers and want to play for a bit.

___________________


But here's the thing.
If you don't like bonuses? Don't take them.
They're in place for those that want them (and there must be loads or they wouldnt be about)

But if people think theyre overly complicated and headachy...well, there's zero obligation to take one.
Just dep and play.
 

Harry_BKK

Meister Member
CAG
mm1
Can't agree more Dunover :thumbsup:

I have been playing online since it was launched in the 90's and had the "honor" of receiving bonuses without any WR :D All was simple, i would still lose my dosh as i do today, no matter if i got 50, 100 or 500 comps on top. :thumbsup:

Compare that to today and is like night and day. I sent once a link to the T&C's from a casino to my lawyer, just for fun and he was amazed at the length and complexity. :rolleyes:

Today i play regularly only at the following casinos:

no bonuses:


- Videoslots - weekly race, cashback

bonuses:

32RED - 30xB WR, straight forward, no restrictions on games or bet size, cashout as much as you want
Royal Vegas - 30XB WR, same as 32RED
Bet-AT/Slotty - Withdraw anytime as long as you don't touch bonus money, wager your bonus with the cash balance
Next/CL - i play here the odd match bonus just because these 2 are somehow my lucky casinos, 40xB WR is not great but no DOA restrictions

Others i promised me to take a look in the near future:

Trada - 2$ earned for every 70$ wagered, no restrictions, no T&C's to follow
Rizk - all rewards are wager free, again no restrictions etc.

The bonus complaint threads are nearly equaling the SE threads and tbh, both have become more than a nuisance. I start rolling my eyes the soon i read "bonus complaint" in the "latest posts" section when opening the CM website . :rolleyes:

The way to go is Videoslots!! The rest is just a hassle and for me, personally, takes away a good chunk of the fun of playing online.
 

mrshyguy

Experienced Member
Makes sense. One difference though is - when you go to the b and m you likely bring a bigger bankroll. At home, some play with smaller deposits to eff about (example a twenty max) for those low rollers and want to play for a bit.

___________________


But here's the thing.
If you don't like bonuses? Don't take them.
They're in place for those that want them (and there must be loads or they wouldnt be about)

But if people think theyre overly complicated and headachy...well, there's zero obligation to take one.
Just dep and play.
yes your quite right in what you say dionysus I just feel that as players we are constantly being stripped of fair gaming when bonuses are being used as it appears to be getting harder and harder to get to a stage when you can cash out while using a bonus what with the win rates going higher and higher.
there will come a point where it is imposible to complete a win rate if things carry on as they are and all that players would be doing is spinning the reels for fun with no chance of a wdw....which defeats the object....might as well play in fun mode.
 

spoton

Senior Member
webmeister
I like bonuses. When I first deposit to play somewhere I obviously expect to loose. I also deposit to play some time, so even without a bonus there is still a chance I will wager my deposit 30-50 times(if I dont bust out before). As I see it then a matchbonus will save me some money/give me some more playtime in the long run.

I've never had any problems with breaking any bonus-rules either.
 

dionysus

can turn wine into water
CAG
MM
yes your quite right in what you say dionysus I just feel that as players we are constantly being stripped of fair gaming when bonuses are being used as it appears to be getting harder and harder to get to a stage when you can cash out while using a bonus what with the win rates going higher and higher.
there will come a point where it is imposible to complete a win rate if things carry on as they are and all that players would be doing is spinning the reels for fun with no chance of a wdw....which defeats the object....might as well play in fun mode.
Agreed. T and Cs should be thorough yet simple to understand.
And fair WR
 

hedgehok

Meister Member
mm3
I partly agree.

What certainly has to be changed is the length and complexity of general T&C and bonus terms.

As a casino you can still offer bonuses/campaigns with big enough WR to avert AP but on the other side make them simple enough and fool-proof for beginners. Betat should be the role-model with ambitious WR but flexibility with your withdrawals.

I strongly disagree that Videoslots is the ultimate way to go. I don't want to see hundreds of races all over the place.
 

Harry_BKK

Meister Member
CAG
mm1
I partly agree.

What certainly has to be changed is the length and complexity of general T&C and bonus terms.

As a casino you can still offer bonuses/campaigns with big enough WR to avert AP but on the other side make them simple enough and fool-proof for beginners. Betat should be the role-model with ambitious WR but flexibility with your withdrawals.

I strongly disagree that Videoslots is the ultimate way to go. I don't want to see hundreds of races all over the place.
Agree Hedge.

Sorry didn't make it clear in my statement. :oops:

With Videoslots I meant that "WAGER FREE" rewards are the way to go where players are rewarded just for playing, no matter if win or lose. :thumbsup:
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
I was just about to post - when hedgehok beat me to it with my exact thoughts!

I like deposit bonuses and do like to take them.
My RAGE is only against the TERMS being far too complicated (e.g. some slots not counting at 100%), the WRs are too high and the SOFTWARE should not let players break the terms at ANY casino.

I've said it dozens of times before... it's NOT rocket science.
(If it is, then the next mission those guys at Videoslots are going to take on, is a manned trip to Mars!)

KK
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Makes sense. One difference though is - when you go to the b and m you likely bring a bigger bankroll. At home, some play with smaller deposits to eff about (example a twenty max) for those low rollers and want to play for a bit.

___________________


But here's the thing.
If you don't like bonuses? Don't take them.
They're in place for those that want them (and there must be loads or they wouldnt be about)

But if people think theyre overly complicated and headachy...well, there's zero obligation to take one.
Just dep and play.
Fair enough, but that's like a bar saying "If you don't like lager, don't drink here!" The point is, they should offer alternatives like bitter and wine and spirits. If the ONLY thing my custom attracts is bonuses with batshit wagering requirements then I'll leave and go on a bar-crawl....:)
 

dionysus

can turn wine into water
CAG
MM
Fair enough, but that's like a bar saying "If you don't like lager, don't drink here!" The point is, they should offer alternatives like bitter and wine and spirits. If the ONLY thing my custom attracts is bonuses with batshit wagering requirements then I'll leave and go on a bar-crawl....:)
Lol, they DO offer the alternative.
Dep straight and clear.

None's saying drink this special or leave (dep with bonus or leave).
Order a straight up draft (straight up dep) and pull up a chair.
 

dionysus

can turn wine into water
CAG
MM
Here's an honest Q to the affiliates.
You all offer incentives I'm sure.
Do not the ones offering SUBS draw you in players and sign ups vs straight up deposits?

Casinos NEED that catch.
Take Rizk for example.
The 200% gets you in the door.
From there, it's deposit and play with wager free rewards therein.
That 200% got me in the dooor and I still play there though no more dep matches.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
Why not go back to basics.

xx% deposit match, slots only, all slots count 100%, no forbidden slots, no max or min bet other than what the software imposes, WR xx times the bonus amount. Bets on non slots count 0% against WR, not that you would notice because these games are all locked out by the software with a bonus.

When it was like this, the bonus related complaints were from players who had played Roulette, Blackjack, or Poker with their slots bonus.

The B&M casinos tend to offer "bonuses" after the fact, based on how much you have played. Often, they are things that will probably keep you playing even longer like a free room for the night, or some free meals and drinks whilst you are on the casino floor. The players' card system also offers far more than the miserly 0.1% one gets online.
 

dada55

Full Member
PABnonaccred
I don't mind the terms casinos have for bonuses but I do think that the main terms need to be on the front page and not hidden in a 10 page block of text.

Either: The casino software should not allow max bet terms/banned games to be played while with a bonus

Or: Every term that regulates how the bonus should be played should be written in BIG font size 100 words onto the promo banner.


Casinos love creating win win situations for them by hiding important terms such as max bet or banned games in hard to find terms.
What is even more annoying is when bookies have terms for specific promotions, that also link you to general terms, that then link you to general promotions terms that then have a link to excluded games while playing a bonus. Yeah cheers, just spend an hour trying to find whether or not my favourite slot is banned, and it actually is. K thx bye.
 
Top