QuickThink Affiliates closed account!

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
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Maybe QT is more closely connected to Cassava than would appear, and this brings up the question of whether Bear group is closer to Cassava, or the people behind Cassava, than we think. Cassava have always been keen to hide the true extent of their connections and sister sites. Cassava also have a similar draconian approach to players as QT affiliates seem to have for affiliates.

I could never have joined Bear group through your links, we are connected because we met in person for a couple of hours in Waxy's and had a drink and a chat together. Probably far more connected than this other player.

Now, QT can have the luxury of repenting at leisure - when's the next big affiliate get together ;)

Thanks a lot - I was trying to forget that....

Seriously, I don't think they are connected. Some affiliate programmes are like contractors, they provide their services to those groups which will use them and can end up therefore promoting unrelated casinos through the same portal/account. It's not usual though, admittedly. For example Redbet Whitebet and Heypoker are all under one programme like Next and Casino Luck are etc.

Maybe you can dig deeper and see if you're correct.:)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
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Thanks a lot - I was trying to forget that....

Seriously, I don't think they are connected. Some affiliate programmes are like contractors, they provide their services to those groups which will use them and can end up therefore promoting unrelated casinos through the same portal/account. It's not usual though, admittedly. For example Redbet Whitebet and Heypoker are all under one programme like Next and Casino Luck are etc.

Maybe you can dig deeper and see if you're correct.:)

The UK regime might actually make this a bit easier as there are these "personal licenses" as well as the more usual "gambling licenses". Also, for the first time we see a definitive list of all the UK facing Cassava white labels, as they are all run under the same license, so the connection is pretty clear.

I have always thought that each major casino group had it's own in house affiliate program, and at this level you could easily see how groups of sister casinos are connected. It seems odd that a company as big as Cassava would outsource it's affiliate program given that they have invested so heavily in the in-house cross marketing that is reported in the forum, and which can sometimes catch out the players.

Ideally, you would want to know who the ultimate owners, or at least majority shareholders, are of these "unrelated" casino groups. This is where things have always been rather murky, but there has often been the rumour that right at the top of the tree are a small number of rather rich and secretive people, including a pair of super secretive Israeli brothers sitting right at the top of the tree of the old Jackpot factory group, and who were said to have substantial interests in Microgaming, and some of the payment processors and player security companies involved in the industry. Nothing of course can be proven due to complex company structures and the use of secretive "tax haven" jurisdictions like Belize (remember Jackpot Factory and "that office block" that seemed pretty close to where Fortune Lounge also had it's Belize offices). Oddly enough, Digimedia emerged as the combined Fortune Lounge, Jackpot Factory, and Belle Rock groups, but maybe this was the reveal of a connection that was always there when they were all "independent".
 

jetset

RIP Brian
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Earth
Thank you for your feedback.

We have replied to both the affiliate and player in question regarding this matter and whilst we cannot discuss specific details relating to each account we can confirm that the affiliate will be paid in full for all commission earned on their account up to now and for any future earnings generated by players tagged to their account. We now consider this matter closed and will not be commenting on it any further.

Kind Regards

QTA

You may consider this matter now closed, but clearly no one else does.

This "response" is a joke and an attempted sidestep, given the continued absence of a proper explanation justifying the decision to switch Dunover off.

I fear you may have just exacerbated this issue with such a lack of respect.
 

dunover

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Just an update. They have paid me as per their promise, thanks to their rep for answering my PMs and keeping me informed.

I still think it's a shame though I can't promote them any longer as their sites were proving quite popular in the short time I had them up and they are decent casinos as I can personally attest.

It's unfortunate as I have no control who signs up at any of my promoted sites and neither does any other affiliate.

Cheers.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Just an update. They have paid me as per their promise, thanks to their rep for answering my PMs and keeping me informed.

I still think it's a shame though I can't promote them any longer as their sites were proving quite popular in the short time I had them up and they are decent casinos as I can personally attest.

It's unfortunate as I have no control who signs up at any of my promoted sites and neither does any other affiliate.

Cheers.

This is the big problem, and it will make affiliates reluctant to put their best efforts towards reviewing and marketing a group where they can be cut off on a whim, and for a situation they cannot have any knowledge about. Worse still, they refused to say exactly what the problem was, leaving it as a vague situation where it looks like it's enough for the player and affiliate to be members of the same forum for the clause to be invoked. The fact that they will still pay for players already referred doesn't help, the investment for the future element of designing the part of the site intended to drive traffic to them is wasted, and could have been better spent marketing another group.

Affiliates may not drop them once they hear of this incident, but they will be wary of putting too much effort into the parts of their site that drive traffic because they will realise that the better they are at driving traffic, the more likely they are to drive the one "wrong" player that will cause their affiliate account to be shut down to further traffic. This will result in less traffic overall being driven to this group, and they will end up paying affiliates for existing players, but getting fewer new players via this route.

Many may have violated this term in the way it's being interpreted, it just hasn't yet been spotted by the casino group. It could be a nasty surprise waiting to ambush some affiliates.
 

jshort

Dormant account
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Feb 1, 2014
Location
Canada
I can think of at least one other reason why a casino might want to close an affiliates account.

Even if the affiliate and BIG player don't know each other, if that player likes playing a tight or high variance game, then on paper (ie mathematically) its a financial loss to the casino to be giving the affiliate a "cashback" on the player's losses. What if this player likes playing ALL-ACES vp?? That game is virtually break even...

On the other hand, suppose the player and affiliate are connected. Even in this case, the affiliate's account should not be automatically locked, but rather just investigated. Maybe the BIG PLAYER is getting rewarded in a way that has nothing to do with the casino. The affiliate could be investing in the player's company or perhaps just mowing his lawn. While these things are incentives for the high-rolling player to click the affiliates links, they have nothing to do with the casino! Why should the casino care if the affiliate is mowing the player's lawn in exchange for clicks?
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Just an update. They have paid me as per their promise, thanks to their rep for answering my PMs and keeping me informed.

I still think it's a shame though I can't promote them any longer as their sites were proving quite popular in the short time I had them up and they are decent casinos as I can personally attest.

It's unfortunate as I have no control who signs up at any of my promoted sites and neither does any other affiliate.

Cheers.

I missed this post, so a belated congratulations to Dunover.

I'm still mystified that an affiliate group would want to perpetuate a situation whereby a promising affiliate with good potential for the future is excluded by strange T&Cs...perhaps this incident has given QT pause for thought and reconsideration...if this is a common practice they must be losing an awful lot of business.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I can think of at least one other reason why a casino might want to close an affiliates account.

Even if the affiliate and BIG player don't know each other, if that player likes playing a tight or high variance game, then on paper (ie mathematically) its a financial loss to the casino to be giving the affiliate a "cashback" on the player's losses. What if this player likes playing ALL-ACES vp?? That game is virtually break even...

On the other hand, suppose the player and affiliate are connected. Even in this case, the affiliate's account should not be automatically locked, but rather just investigated. Maybe the BIG PLAYER is getting rewarded in a way that has nothing to do with the casino. The affiliate could be investing in the player's company or perhaps just mowing his lawn. While these things are incentives for the high-rolling player to click the affiliates links, they have nothing to do with the casino! Why should the casino care if the affiliate is mowing the player's lawn in exchange for clicks?

Booting the player would be the sensible course of action, rather than booting the player AND the affiliate, who would be sending many better value players as well as the odd one who plays a tight game.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I can think of at least one other reason why a casino might want to close an affiliates account.

Even if the affiliate and BIG player don't know each other, if that player likes playing a tight or high variance game, then on paper (ie mathematically) its a financial loss to the casino to be giving the affiliate a "cashback" on the player's losses. What if this player likes playing ALL-ACES vp?? That game is virtually break even...

On the other hand, suppose the player and affiliate are connected. Even in this case, the affiliate's account should not be automatically locked, but rather just investigated. Maybe the BIG PLAYER is getting rewarded in a way that has nothing to do with the casino. The affiliate could be investing in the player's company or perhaps just mowing his lawn. While these things are incentives for the high-rolling player to click the affiliates links, they have nothing to do with the casino! Why should the casino care if the affiliate is mowing the player's lawn in exchange for clicks?

It appears it was even more tenuous than mowing lawns, the player also happened to be a member of the same forum as the affiliate, which is classed as a "prohibited connection" as far as they are concerned. This would probably mean that the majority of their affiliates have inadvertently broken this term, they just haven't been caught yet as it can't be easy to see who is behind the forum handles in order to establish the connection. Somehow in this case, the program was able to deduce who was behind the forum handles, and connect these forum handles to an affiliate and a player who had signed up through his links. Normally, these connections refer to family members, friends, and employees of the affiliate, which is far easier to detect, especially when it's immediate family using the same internet connection as the affiliate.
 
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