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QuickThink Affiliates closed account!

Discussion in 'Affiliate Issues' started by dunover, Apr 28, 2016.

    Apr 28, 2016
  1. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I was promoting these Quick Think Affiliates sites (Slingo, Pocket Fruity and Spin Genie).

    I recruited 8 or 9 players in a couple of weeks. Yesterday I logged in and found I had a high-roller join and had made a few K from them. Today that amount had doubled, and it appears the player had spent 20k. I even had the Quick Think rep e-mail me and ask if I was going to AAC etc. and congratulating me on my sign-up. I went to check the payment terms about 20 minutes ago, to confirm that I get paid any monies owing at midnight 30/04 as per the calendar month, in May which is usual. Went to log back in and was locked out. I then got an e-mail:

    Dear D
    This email is to inform you that your account with QuickThink Affiliates has been closed due to operational purposes. Please see 12.2 of our Terms & Conditions below

    12.2 Either party may terminate the Agreement immediately at any time by giving written notice to the other party, which may be by post or by email. For the avoidance of doubt and without prejudice to the generality of the foregoing, the Merchant may elect to terminate this Agreement immediately by cancelling the Affiliate's account on the Merchant Website or by giving written notice to the Affiliate

    Your account will remain closed and will not be re-opened in the future.

    Regards,

    QTA Team
    Email: This email is not visible to you.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.


    OK, why has this happened? Just a straight scam, unwilling to pay me a 4-figure sum I earned? WTF?? Or simple theft of my commission?

    I URGE YOU TO TAKE CARE WITH QUICK THINK AFFILIATES AND PROMOTION OF SPIN GENIE/SLINGO/POCKET FRUITY AND ANY OTHER BEAR GROUP CASINOS/SITES.

    Is there a PAB for affiliate programs?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    3 people like this.
  2. Apr 28, 2016
  3. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    1 person likes this.
  4. Apr 29, 2016
  5. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    I believe Quick Think owes you a far more honest explanation than this sort of arbitrary abrogation of your affiliate agreement.

    On the face of it, it does look as if they've opted for short-term gain rather than a potentially much more rewarding long term partnership with a promising affiliate marketer.

    Let's hope Max can get more information out of them - I for one would be interested in the outcome here.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Apr 29, 2016
  7. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    It's unfortunate when companies like this act if they can just toss either affiliates or players aside without a solid and logical explanation. It's not easy to gain good affiliates or players - it seems that somewhere along this chain of command someone didn't get that memo.

    Just to add, if it were me as an affiliate, I would have expected a detailed explanation on why my account was closed. Dunover should be treated no differently.
     
  8. Apr 29, 2016
  9. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    The other risk Quick Think faces as a consequence of this sort of behaviour is to its reputation among affiliates, and whether the better affiliates would be prepared to work with a company that appears to have such a cavalier attitude to its partners.
     
    7 people like this.
  10. Apr 29, 2016
  11. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I have of course asked this by e-mail, no reply forthcoming. Even if they did terminate it summarily and arbitrarily they have no right to keep my earnings that I can see (unless chargeback fraud etc. is proven.)
     
  12. Apr 29, 2016
  13. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    Well, if they can't be arsed with this - or if they just can't be bothered because it's a Friday afternoon, then we'll see what the rogue pit looks like on Monday.
     
    9 people like this.
  14. May 2, 2016
  15. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    It looks like this affiliate program feels that it has handled this situation properly. Which is alarming since this means that anyone who knows me (we have several thousand members here) who clicks my links and signs up would theoretically jeopardize my affiliate account (if I had one) as well as his or hers.

    Looks like an affiliate warning is due.
     
    5 people like this.
  16. May 2, 2016
  17. Nicola

    Nicola Casino Affiliate MM mm1 webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Developer
    Location:
    Green Park, London
    I am genuinely surprised by the actions taken here by what seemed an good outfit. The parent company of Bear Group (owners of Slingo, SpinGenie etc) release their financial results to the London stock market this week which may show something. Otherwise I'm lost to why they would close the account of a good standing affiliate.
     
  18. May 2, 2016
  19. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    They don't understand the market, the nature of forums and affiliate websites. I don't think they have much experience at all.
     
  20. May 3, 2016
  21. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes, they appear to be using a term designed to prevent collusion presumably or fraud to act against accounts they consider 'too close' to some of the sign-ups they take. Therefore even the most tenuous 'link' between an affiliate and player can be used to arbitrarily close accounts, both affiliate and player! If all programmes followed this to the letter, the whole network would come crashing down.

    The logical advice would be none of us use each others' affiliate links to avoid this, but luckily QTA are in a minority of one here.:thumbsup:
     
  22. May 3, 2016
  23. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    It appears from the continued silence that they either do not have their finger on the public pulse, or they are too ignorant to care.
     
  24. May 3, 2016
  25. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    We have a rep here for the casino, but none for the affiliate programs.

    Admin note: changed thread title so as not to be confused from an official Casinomeister Warning (which will be posted soon).
     
  26. May 3, 2016
  27. interlog

    interlog Senior Member MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    London
    So, if the affiliate didn't get his commission, has the casino then refunded all of the losses to the player or is it a question of having the cake and eating it too?
     
  28. May 3, 2016
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Such a broad definition of "link" means they can just pick and choose what affiliate accounts to close, and then hide behind this catch all anti-fraud term. There is a visible motive here when a high roller signs up and significantly boosts an affiliate's revenue from the norm. The timing suggests that it was this player that triggered their action, as they had no problem before.

    Anyone can get lucky and snare a high roller through their affiliate site. The anti-fraud measures are designed to stop friends and family from signing up through your links, as in this case the affiliate could easily control or influence such accounts.

    If they don't understand affiliate sites and forums, how did they expect affiliates to promote them, send bulk spam perhaps?
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. May 3, 2016
  31. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    No, they e-mailed me to say commissions earned will stand and be paid, and in future any income from my sign-ups will be too - although I have no way of monitoring future income as I'm locked out.
     
    6 people like this.
  32. May 3, 2016
  33. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Having read the warning, I would also want to know how they were able to determine who was behind a forum handle. This shouldn't even be possible under Data Protection Law as only the Meister and his staff can see such detail, all anyone else can see is our forum handle and what we choose to share in our profile. When one signs up at a casino, they get our real details, and the fact that we signed up through a given affiliate. However, how do they then make the leap to connect the fact that the player and affiliate are both members of a third party forum like Casinomeister.

    It is also very surprising that such a wide scope in this particular term has not caused an avalanche of earlier complaints, as it would if they were applying this term to all their affiliates, and given that a considerable quantity of traffic is driven from fora and blogs, and affiliates know that by engaging with their potential market they boost their chances of getting more traffic, and also a higher conversion rate, than they would from a simple non engaging "banner farm" website and a bulk email marketing campaign (known as "spam").

    I would suspect that there is a different reason for the action in this case, and they are just hiding behind this term, but in doing so they have made themselves look ridiculous because on the face of it they are saying the action is purely down to the player also being a member of the same forum that the affiliate is a member of.

    They also seem to have happily booted a high rolling LOSING player over this.

    This issue needs to be aired in the big affiliate fora, as this would be the best way to "educate" this lot as to how things actually work. On the face of it, EVERY affiliate on said affiliate fora would likely be in breach of this same term as they engage with the community, and thus are open to other members of this community occasionally signing up via their links. Many affiliates are also players, and they know that they can't sign up via their own links, so are highly likely to sign up via another affiliate in their community as a matter of mutual support.
     
    2 people like this.
  34. May 4, 2016
  35. QTAffiliates

    QTAffiliates I-Gaming Industry Representative

    Occupation:
    Affiliate Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Thank you for your feedback.

    We have replied to both the affiliate and player in question regarding this matter and whilst we cannot discuss specific details relating to each account we can confirm that the affiliate will be paid in full for all commission earned on their account up to now and for any future earnings generated by players tagged to their account. We now consider this matter closed and will not be commenting on it any further.

    Kind Regards

    QTA
     
  36. May 4, 2016
  37. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    You didn't tell us anything that we don't already know.

    I think one of the main issues here is "why?"

    From what we know is that the player is being accused of being "connected" to the affiliate - which is absurd. The player was KYC'd - and everything is good to go with him. Apparently, some draconian term is being enforced - for whatever reason - and if this term is to be enforced on Dunover, then it needs to be enforced on each and every affiliate.

    If this is the case, then you won't be able to advertise anywhere - at least not on any websites that have large player communities like Casinomeister, AskGamblers, etc.

    We know each other - players know me - other affiliates know me. And it is a common practice for affiliates to click each other's links. This is done for a number of reasons. One - to ensure that your links are tracking properly. Two - to pound your buddy's affiliate account into the stone age if possible. If you win, it's LOL on your buddy. If you lose, then perhaps the guy (or gal) will buy you a beer next time you meet.

    The affiliate community is a relatively small one, as you should probably know.

    You need to be very specific on exactly what term was enforced and why, and how you will proceed with this in the future. Thanks!
     
    7 people like this.
  38. May 4, 2016
  39. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This issue needs to be raised at each and every affiliate conference possible, as this is a highly toxic program that affiliates should avoid at all costs due to this term, and the fact that the program is adamant that it is correctly applied in cases where the connection is merely that the player and affiliate "connection" is nothing more than the fact that they both use a particular forum, or network with each other at conferences etc.

    Even a non playing affiliate can be at risk as it's what the player does as well as what the affiliate does that also counts. A non playing affiliate could end up referring a playing affiliate that share a forum with them, or network at the same conference.

    It's little comfort that payment will continue to be made for players already referred, there is still wasted effort due to having created site content that can no longer be used to generate further traffic.

    From a player's point of view, it is also unwise to sign up to any casino in this program via an affiliate, as this too could be seen as a connection, and cause the player to have their account unexpectedly closed, and in many cases any winnings confiscated. This situation more or less excludes affiliates from any meaningful ability to market the sites freely as they have to worry about inadvertently falling foul of this vague term. The safe option would be for affiliates to pull out of marketing this particular group altogether, and concentrate on working with programs that actually understand how the industry works, and who can understand when a "connection" is actually relevant when it comes to possible collusion.

    This group will end up with mostly "black hat" affiliates, who will market via things like spam and "banner farm" web pages, which in turn will give the casinos a bad name as people will see little coverage of them on sites with decent content (other than in rogue pit listings), but will be inundated with spam mailers for them, or will see them prominently promoted on "banner farm" sites and from hacked wordpress sites in Google search results.

    Whilst this issue has affected only one affiliate, and a highly respected member of this community, the underlying cause, the application of this term, means that this is likely to affect a significant number of affiliates, who so far have just been lucky not to have snared the "wrong" player through their sites (yet). For many, it will be a case of when, not if, this happens.

    It seems additionally suspicious that this happened right after a high roller was snared and started generating significant levels of commission for the affiliate, and the original intention appeared to be a ruse to boot the affiliate in order to avoid paying the commission gained from this high roller.

    There is no way an affiliate can tell who has signed up via their links, as this level of data isn't shared with them, so of course affiliates can't know for sure whether or not any traffic they have sent is "prohibited traffic" as far as the program is concerned.

    The only way an affiliate can knowingly benefit from such traffic is to be so well connected to the referred players that they have been able to collude to the extent that the affiliate is directing the player(s) to sign up via their links, and also how to play in order to maximise the revenue between them.

    In this respect, the action has also insulted the affiliate as it is an accusation that they have engaged in this type of fraudulent practice in order to warrant such a draconian response from the program.
     

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