Questions for Pragmatic Play and using Streamers

danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK

Man, I love Billions.

Here's a question for @Dan_Pragmatic though; do Pragmatic give funds to any casinos for marketing purposes? It's undeniable that a lot of streamers play almost exclusively Pragmatic games, so it does suggest that there is some kind of promotional transaction taking place. Now, fair enough you have no direct relationship with the streamers, but you of course do have a relationship with the casinos.
 
Pragmatic Play is reviewed at Casinomeister

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Man, I love Billions.

Here's a question for @Dan_Pragmatic though; do Pragmatic give funds to any casinos for marketing purposes? It's undeniable that a lot of streamers play almost exclusively Pragmatic games, so it does suggest that there is some kind of promotional transaction taking place. Now, fair enough you have no direct relationship with the streamers, but you of course do have a relationship with the casinos.
They pay streamers directly. There is evidence of that online where streamers have said they've been approached by them with that offer.

I think he's saying with Question 5 that as there was "questions" over that win from the streamer's peers, they removed it from the marketing. Which is fairly sensible, as these things go.

we don’t want to be seen as favoring one Streamer over the other

Thats what he said the reason was, not sure where you got your conclusion from but it doesn't read like that to me :confused:
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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uk
Q2: Do we pay Streamers to promote our games?

A2:
Pragmatic Play was one of the early supporters of the Streamers. We help Streamers with promotions, tournaments, marketing material, etc. to give them a better product for their viewers and to help small Streamers off the ground. Of course, we look at Streamers as a great way to promote our games and get more exposure. Same as any other company that chose to support Streamers. We look at forums the same way and it is important to know that we don’t, and we would never, cover anyone’s losses. Covering losses would not make any financial sense for us, as Casinos earn most of the money on losses, Pragmatic Play only licenses the slots to Casinos for a small % of what the Casinos earn on our slots.
So I've put this list in another thread, but thought I would put it here too.

youtube . com/c/ProdigyDDK/videos
youtube . com/c/Fossy/videos
youtube . com/c/WatchGamesTV/videos
youtube . com/c/Drewy/videos
youtube . com/c/TCKEntertainment/videos
youtube . com/c/AyeZee/videos
youtube . com/c/XposedTwitch/videos
youtube . com/c/JuicyFruityyy/videos

They are all playing on $10000-$30000 bonus buys. They all play, almost exclusively, Pragmatic Play slots. They all play at casinos that don't exactly have a great reputation when it comes to paying players. Are you trying to tell us it's because your games are so great that all the streamers doing bonus buys of that amount are playing your games and almost no others? That there is no financial incentive for them to do that?
 

Guntis

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Location
United kingdom
View attachment 153733

So, I've been doing some more research on this guy.. All signs point back to the "owner" of Roobet named "Howie" who funds these nimrods accounts with $1000 and the streamers get 25% of the profits and viewers 5%. Apparently it's called the "Howie Deal".

I don't know exactly how Pragmatic Play has a part in the "Howie Deal", but surly they have some kind of hand in these fake streaming videos...

I wish Roobet disappeared to be honest. It just all seems so damn rotten to the core. I also wish Pragmatic Play would just clear the air instead of answering in tiny moderation and never coming back to answer all other serious inquiries.

You missed out Pam :D

8.png
hxxps://medium.com/the-capital/roobet-casino-review-e0caa15495ae
 

Dan_Pragmatic

I-Gaming Industry Representative
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Location
Manila
Welcome back Dan. Just going to comment on those two things

Firstly, question 2, nice way to answer it without actually answering the question. You could have just said 'yes'.

Question 5. I'm sorry, that makes no sense. Surely if you are going to feature big wins then it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if he is the first one you feature, as other streamers hit big wins, they would be featured too. If you did it for the reasons suggested then you are pretty much saying streamers control your advertising. You could have also used the screenshot without mentioning a streamers name.
Hi @colinsunderland

Thanks, happy to be back :)

Regarding question 2, I would like to expand further on the collaboration between Pragmatic Play and Streamers

What we have done to support Streamers: Firstly, we have collaborated with Streamers where we sponsored tournaments or events organized by these Streamers. This form of sponsorship is something we highly favor, because the prizes, either cash or merchandise, go directly to the viewers. Secondly, we have provided some financial assistance to relatively new streamers, to get them started. This would usually be amounts of up to 1,000 euro a month, just to help them to cover expenses until they would be on their feet. Third, we have assisted Streamers by providing merchandise for their stores, again knowing this merchandise will eventually be rewarded to the viewers.

What we are doing now: For the last 12 months already we have significantly reduced the supporting activities for Streamers, mainly because the Streamer business has grown and matured a lot, many more Casinos are involved now as well. Streamers do not really need our support anymore.

In response to the question about the Big Win video we shared on our social media. You are right, we could have added more big win videos of other Streamers as well, to not favor one Streamer over the other. We considered it, however we were not sure it would solve the problem. There are a lot of Streamers today, it would be very hard to give all of them equal exposure and to manage all that. So we decided the easier way for us is to simply not promote any Streamers on our social channels. Also, removing the Streamer name, or any information, in a big win video is something we want to avoid, as we always want to ensure the authenticity of the video.


Thanks for the feedback Colinsunderland, I hope my answers helps.

Br,

Daniel
 

Dan_Pragmatic

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Oct 1, 2018
Location
Manila
Man, I love Billions.

Here's a question for @Dan_Pragmatic though; do Pragmatic give funds to any casinos for marketing purposes? It's undeniable that a lot of streamers play almost exclusively Pragmatic games, so it does suggest that there is some kind of promotional transaction taking place. Now, fair enough you have no direct relationship with the streamers, but you of course do have a relationship with the casinos.
Hi @danofthewibble

Thanks for the question.

I would like to point out that, as far as I am aware, there are no Streamers who play Pragmatic Play games on an “almost exclusive basis” or even close to it, even though it would be great if they would?. To give you an indication of where we are at, I have included the below chart from Casinolytics*. We were indeed the most viewed provider in terms of airtime on Twitch in March, however, we are far away from being exclusive. (*note: we had to remove the names of the other providers).


In addition, I also want to clarify that there are no promotional transactions, or anything similar, between Pragmatic Play and the Casinos related to Streamers. Two things are important here, firstly, Pragmatic Play only licenses the slots to Casinos for a small % of what the Casinos earn on our slots. Therefore is simply not possible for us make any significant financial contribution to Casinos in their dealings with Streamers. Secondly, In our system, we are not able to distinguish between Players and a Streamer, therefore we would never be able to control any of it. Those two factors combined are the reason why we don’t support any promotional transactions with the Casinos related to Streamers.

Br,

Daniel
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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Location
uk
Hi @danofthewibble

Thanks for the question.

I would like to point out that, as far as I am aware, there are no Streamers who play Pragmatic Play games on an “almost exclusive basis” or even close to it, even though it would be great if they would?.
youtube . com/c/ProdigyDDK/videos
youtube . com/c/Fossy/videos
youtube . com/c/WatchGamesTV/videos
youtube . com/c/Drewy/videos
youtube . com/c/TCKEntertainment/videos
youtube . com/c/AyeZee/videos
youtube . com/c/XposedTwitch/videos
youtube . com/c/JuicyFruityyy/videos
 

Dan_Pragmatic

I-Gaming Industry Representative
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Location
Manila
youtube . com/c/ProdigyDDK/videos
youtube . com/c/Fossy/videos
youtube . com/c/WatchGamesTV/videos
youtube . com/c/Drewy/videos
youtube . com/c/TCKEntertainment/videos
youtube . com/c/AyeZee/videos
youtube . com/c/XposedTwitch/videos
youtube . com/c/JuicyFruityyy/videos

Hi @colinsunderland

I didn't forget about your question. :)

I can confirm that we do not have any agreement with the Youtubers listed above or the Casinos they play at to promote our games. We don’t know if Streamers have any financial benefit from playing our games, we don’t have any insight into this. Our bonus buy features are attractive to Streamers and Players because they have the potential to create a lot of action and excitement.

Br,

Daniel
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
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sweden
youtube . com/c/ProdigyDDK/videos
youtube . com/c/Fossy/videos
youtube . com/c/WatchGamesTV/videos
youtube . com/c/Drewy/videos
youtube . com/c/TCKEntertainment/videos
youtube . com/c/AyeZee/videos
youtube . com/c/XposedTwitch/videos
youtube . com/c/JuicyFruityyy/videos
Looked at the channels, and it seems to be split between pragmatic & Nlc for the crazy stakes bonus buys.
Majority is Pragmatic tho, but i think that is due to them having more slots.

Im obviously just guessing, but i dont think there needs to be a financial incentive behind it (atleast not from PP), just that those are the providers offering those crazy high stakes for their bonus buys.
If btg,netent etc would offer €20k buys i think those providers would be featured in their videos aswell.
 

sufferinsilence

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Location
Belgium
Hi @colinsunderland

I didn't forget about your question. :)

I can confirm that we do not have any agreement with the Youtubers listed above or the Casinos they play at to promote our games. We don’t know if Streamers have any financial benefit from playing our games, we don’t have any insight into this. Our bonus buy features are attractive to Streamers and Players because they have the potential to create a lot of action and excitement.

Br,

Daniel

What do you think of how moral it is that most of these are buying 50k bonuses with money they get from the casino's they play at? Should Pragmatic endorse that? I noticed that you guys have made a slot exclusively for Roobet, one of those casino's that give streamers (unlimited in some cases) free money, Roo Bonanza.
 

Kroffe

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Secondly, we have provided some financial assistance to relatively new streamers, to get them started. This would usually be amounts of up to 1,000 euro a month, just to help them to cover expenses until they would be on their feet.
This sounds like exactly the kind of thing i would need to get my 9p Doa stream off the ground.
Pm me and lets talk.

hkkj.gif
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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Location
uk
Hi @colinsunderland

I didn't forget about your question. :)

I can confirm that we do not have any agreement with the Youtubers listed above or the Casinos they play at to promote our games. We don’t know if Streamers have any financial benefit from playing our games, we don’t have any insight into this. Our bonus buy features are attractive to Streamers and Players because they have the potential to create a lot of action and excitement.

Br,

Daniel
Sorry was in a hurry so just copied and pasted as an answer to you saying you didn't know of any streamers doing so :)

So heres one for you, presumably casinos pay a % of profits to you from players playing your games? Is that correct?
 

colinsunderland

Experienced Member
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uk
Actually, just seen you answered that above. So assuming it works as rev share does with affiliates, if that is the case, surely any casino allowing streamers to play with funded accounts that isn't their own money, is defrauding Pragmatic Play?
For example, if you were on (and I know it won't be this high, just as an example) 10%, then the infamous $500000 by Roshtein would have put your account as minus $50000
But if the casino are funding the account (as they clearly are) then they aren't paying out, so you are losing $50k in revenue surely?
 

jaydub

Newbie member
Joined
Jun 18, 2020
Location
dublin
youtube . com/c/ProdigyDDK/videos
youtube . com/c/Fossy/videos
youtube . com/c/WatchGamesTV/videos
youtube . com/c/Drewy/videos
youtube . com/c/TCKEntertainment/videos
youtube . com/c/AyeZee/videos
youtube . com/c/XposedTwitch/videos
youtube . com/c/JuicyFruityyy/videos
And not just the slots they play , even the theme and the language( lot of " bros " used when they talk ) they use on stream , feel like they all have the same script and director ... You can easily see the difference between the ones you quoted and the other streamers like hypalinx , rocknrolla ...
 

KasinoKiller

Newbie member
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Location
uk
Hi Dan,

So let's be absolutely clear here. You are saying that Pragmatic do not fund established streamers at all. May I ask how many fledging streamers have you supported in the past and what was the maximum extent of that support (based upon 1000 Euros a week).

How many streamers do you currently support on this basis?

As to colinsunderland's point is it not the case that the specific game ID supposedly won by some of the streamers would have been subject to audit/verification checks at the server to ensure the validity of the game rounds. Are all of their wins subject to scrutiny and do the casinos in question reflect the outcome of these game rounds in their calculation of the amounts due to Pragmatic Play.
 

kt121212

Agenda driven, disrespectful troll
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Location
usa
The regulator should make it a requirement that the streamer clearly states this stream is being sponsored by XXX. Or a register on the providers website were they currently have agreements with. This is the best way to be open and transparent here.

This would get rid of shady deals like @Chipmonkz on those parasitic netkan casinos and the fixed fee per video deposit cover.
 

KasinoKiller

Newbie member
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Location
uk
Do not post trollish comments please.
Chipmonkz is my absolute favourite streamer alongside his brilliant companion. He provides streams every day of extremely high quality at realistic stakes in an interesting format. He recommends only the best casinos and has all of the very best exclusive sign up offers.

Oh wait at moment - that is what a deluded fat wee scamming prick thinks we think of him. The reality is that he is a parasitical scumbag pumping out videos with his moronic sidekick using false funds every day recommending shitty casinos to mugs who cannot see what a shitbag this guy actually is.
 

Dan_Pragmatic

I-Gaming Industry Representative
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Location
Manila
What do you think of how moral it is that most of these are buying 50k bonuses with money they get from the casino's they play at? Should Pragmatic endorse that? I noticed that you guys have made a slot exclusively for Roobet, one of those casino's that give streamers (unlimited in some cases) free money, Roo Bonanza.
Hi @sufferinsilence,

Thank you for your question

We do not endorse any specific amounts or limits, we are actually completely neutral on the topic of limits. As a manufacturer, it is our responsibility to follow the industry regulations when it comes to the certification and compliance of our games and to provide the tools for the Casinos to set the required limits. This allows the Casinos to match the regulatory requirements, depending on the jurisdiction they are in, and choose their desired risk level. It is not a standard practice for manufacturers to set limits. Limits are usually set by regulators, operators and/or users. The same applies for example for land-based slot providers, but also in many other industries.

The dedicated slot for Roobet is an existing Pragmatic title with “light” Casino branding added to it. It’s a service we provide to more Casinos and is unrelated to Streamers, those deals are done by completely different people in our company.

Br,

Daniel
 
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Dan_Pragmatic

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Oct 1, 2018
Location
Manila
Hi @colinsunderland,

Thank you for your follow up question.

Continuing my answer based on your example (and you are right, it is not as high as 10%), indeed, a €500,000 win would cost a game provider €50,000. However, Streamers play for many hours and, in the long run, on average, end up losing more than they win. With this in mind, it is safe to assume that a game provider would not be very concerned about one particular win of a Streamer. In more detail, at the end of every month, we calculate the total amount of money we are to receive from a Casino. Regardless of how a Streamer got his/her balance, either by real deposits or gifted by a Casino (remember, we cannot know the difference), if the Streamer loses, the total amount of money we are to receive at the end of the month increases a bit. On the other hand, if the Streamer wins (again, regardless if the bet was placed with real deposited money or gifted by the Casino), the total amount the Casino owes us at the end of the month decreases a bit. The bottom line is, for every game round won by a Player or Streamer, the total amount the Casino owes us decreases a bit, and for every game round lost by a Player or Streamer, the total amount the Casino owes us increases a bit. In all this, one big win doesn’t really matter.


Br,

Daniel
 

Dan_Pragmatic

I-Gaming Industry Representative
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Location
Manila
Hi @KasinoKiller,

That is correct, we do not fund any established streamers whatsoever. In the past, we did support between 10 to 20 streamers at once, but now it is less than a handful. I would also like to add a little correction to your statement, as it was €1000 per month and not per week. Furthermore, it is not viable for us to scrutinize, audit or thoroughly verify any individual game rounds, because we have a very high number of spins every day on our network. We actually only launch investigations into specific game sessions and/or wins when requested by individual Casinos.

Br,

Daniel
 

brianmon

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Location
Cumbria
Hi @KasinoKiller,

That is correct, we do not fund any established streamers whatsoever. In the past, we did support between 10 to 20 streamers at once, but now it is less than a handful. I would also like to add a little correction to your statement, as it was €1000 per month and not per week. Furthermore, it is not viable for us to scrutinize, audit or thoroughly verify any individual game rounds, because we have a very high number of spins every day on our network. We actually only launch investigations into specific game sessions and/or wins when requested by individual Casinos.

Br,

Daniel
How can you say you do not fund any established streamers whatsoever, and then contradict yourself by saying you now support less than a handful?

Less than a handful is still more than none
 

danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
How can you say you do not fund any established streamers whatsoever, and then contradict yourself by saying you now support less than a handful?

Less than a handful is still more than none

I think the word "established" is doing the work there; correct me if I'm wrong, but I take it to mean they're not supporting the big names currently, rather people with newer channels etc.
 

curremon

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
MM
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Jan 26, 2013
Location
finland
I wonder whats the deal with this Stake dot com casino ? Why all these fucking yelling idiots play there ? Whats the deal with those ridicilous bets they do and YELL like retards.. Yelling like your foot is being amputated while someone fistfucks your eye when winning 100k monopoly money doesnt make any sense to me.
 
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