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Question Question regarding play after self exclusion

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by winston, May 10, 2017.

    May 10, 2017
  1. winston

    winston Newbie member

    Location:
    uk
    Hi all,

    I have been playing various online casinos for approximately 20 years on and off winning and losing in that time with no issues.

    I recently signed up to one where I deposited and played through a total of £1600 over a period of 3-4 hours which I lost, unfortuantely.
    When I signed in the following day I found my account closed. It seems after talking on live chat that this was because I'd self excluded 4 years ago from their site.

    I have subsequently discovered that had I won they would not have paid out. This means I was unknowingly gambling with only one of two outcomes possible - losing or breaking even. Are these therefore valid bets in the sense that by their own admission they wouldn't have paid out on any wins.

    Aside from the fact they allowed play despite an SE. Do you think I'd have reasonable grounds to file a complaint with the Casino concerned and does anyone think this has any chance of a favourable outcome (i.e a refund of deposits)?

    Anyone experienced similar. Any advice and or thoughts appreciated.
     
  2. May 10, 2017
  3. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    If the casino is licensed in the UK then you have a good chance to get your deposits back as the regulation states that a casino has to void all bets and return the account to its original status, meaning as if you'd never played a single spin which equals then your total deposits.

    Is the casino in question accredited here at CM? If yes, then click on i-gaming reps and look for their CM rep. Send him a PM (private message) with your case and ask for a refund of the deposits.

    Reason i am saying is that the UK regulation says clearly that casinos have to have proper safeguards in place to make sure SE'ed players cannot play or register again with them or one of their sister sites.
     
  4. May 10, 2017
  5. winston

    winston Newbie member

    Location:
    uk
    Thanks for posting. The website was Virgin Games. I'm not sure where they are registered but they have offices in uk. :)
     
  6. May 10, 2017
  7. xxshepxx

    xxshepxx Senior Member PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    mechanic
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    They have a UK licence which means they need to refund the deposits.

    Im kinda swaying as to weather to do this @ Powerspins too. As I made £100's of deposits. And only after bringing a support error to light did they decide to ban me from the site.

    Irresposible. And the safeguards were not in place. Not that I need any, I only SE'd at BGO because it was crap.
     
  8. May 10, 2017
  9. winston

    winston Newbie member

    Location:
    uk
    I've had a look on the i-Gaming Reps list using link, however sadly I cannot find someone for Virgin Games listed :(

    I've asked for the deposits back and it's been reviewed by a supervisor. I've taken the following excerpt from their response

    "We will use all reasonable endeavours to ensure compliance with our responsible gaming self-exclusion policy. However you accept that the operator has no responsibility or liability whatsoever if you continue to deposit and wager using any additional not previously disclosed accounts and /or if you open up a new account with substantially the same personal registration information.

    Should you register any accounts whilst the self-exclusion agreement is active, the operator reserves the right to void any winnings and withhold deposits, as to refund stakes that have been lost would be deemed a perverse incentive to gamble. The success of the self-exclusion facility relies on a large extent to which the member is committed to managing his or her behaviour. "

    The wagers on your account were legitimate wagers that were played out successfully and there for are not refundable.


    I'm not sure if it has a bearing on the outcome but I have moved house in the past four years and changed email address. Aside from this all other details were the same.

    How would you guys recommend I proceed. Continue following their complaints procedure or something different.

    I understand from both posts so far that the consensus is that their UK license dictates they should return deposits. Is this despite the deposits being played through?

    I'd really appreciate any assistance with the best way forward.
     
  10. May 10, 2017
  11. Playford7

    Playford7 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Offshore worker
    Location:
    North east England
    These places do as they please. Bgo banned me from bonus's as i complained. I agree they are terrible And you would get better support from a drunk monty python cast.
    I once had to charge back to thrills, due to service so bad I couldn't explain, but this is still haunting me to this day, guts closed my account permanently because of it, no reason given.
    If casinos where honest, and straight from the start we would have no problems, but hey ho that's the online slot world.
    If you feel you where not given the product you purchased with your own cash then by all means dispute it.
    We all would if we bought a new iPhone and we didn't get what was promised. Why the hell should a casino be any different????.
     
  12. May 10, 2017
  13. redsfan

    redsfan Experienced Member webby

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    bishop auckland
    My advice would be to wait for the supervisors response.

    Then see which way the wind blows so to speak. Virgin are a reputable company.
     
  14. May 10, 2017
  15. redsfan

    redsfan Experienced Member webby

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    bishop auckland
    Do you think there are more dishonest casinos or more dishonest players?
     
  16. May 10, 2017
  17. Playford7

    Playford7 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Offshore worker
    Location:
    North east England
    A casino has the right to protect itself without question, they are a business and I don't dispute that.
    They are a limited few out there that are fantastic, and honest. they are also those we all thought where above board and fantastic (casumo)
    There will be dishonest players without doubt, and they can be easily found out.
    Regarding dishonest casinos... pending withdrawl times (why?) oh because they can...
    Terrible affiliation promotions that bother genuine players... (why?) because they can...
    Terribly long kyc so the player plays back there winnings...(why?) because they can.
    Few examples, but the majoroty lack ethics and honesty, I was told personally via email which I still have to keep a complaint I made private regarding a very very highly rated casino private...why?...oh because it brings there practices into question.
    They will look after you if you spend big bucks, without question, or have a affiliate link. The average customer is usually kicked to the kerb though sadly.
     
  18. May 10, 2017
  19. redsfan

    redsfan Experienced Member webby

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    bishop auckland

    For every 1 dishonest player caught, 10 will slip through the net.
     
  20. May 11, 2017
  21. winston

    winston Newbie member

    Location:
    uk
    The response above was from a supervisor.
    :(
     
  22. May 11, 2017
  23. Playford7

    Playford7 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Offshore worker
    Location:
    North east England
    And?...
    You not think the casino makes enough to cover any losses from a so called 'dis-honest player'...
    I'm sure there 48 hour pending periods or or betting 3p over max bet, or even possibly asking people for paper evidence from there bank covers this?...
    Not to mention charging for a deposit or withdrawal?....
    or perhaps.... taking self excluded players money then refusing a refund?....
    Not all, some are great casinos, very few but some.
     
  24. May 11, 2017
  25. winston

    winston Newbie member

    Location:
    uk
    Do you think I should go down the chargeback route with my Visa. I used a debit card rather than credit. Hadn't even thought of this. Do you think it would be possible on the grounds that it wasn't fraudulent just not the product requested?
     
  26. May 11, 2017
  27. Playford7

    Playford7 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Offshore worker
    Location:
    North east England
    Of course 110%
    Although try to contact a rep should there be one, or a manager first at the casino.
    Chargebacks are frowned upon, but if you get no joy from the casino itself, it's management or anyone here. Then by all means if You spent your hard earned money and didn't get what you paid for then your entitled to it back.
    A online casino shouldn't be any different.
    Contact your bank, provide them with the times and dates when you transferred your cash, inform them you need a chargeback, you will be emailed with a number to ring also a form to fill in and return.
    May I say though make absolute total time to try and address this with the casino in question first as down the road you will encounter problems.
    Best of luck.
     
  28. May 11, 2017
  29. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Unfortunately, VG does not have a rep on CM.

    Chargeback should be the very last option. Please ask support for their ADR details (Alternative Dispute Resolution). Every UK licensed has to have one in their T&C's but I couldn't find it on first glance. You can then send your case to that ADR which should decide in your favor.

    One question though: Did you use different details to register the second account in order to circumvent the SE on the first one?
     
  30. May 11, 2017
  31. Playford7

    Playford7 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Offshore worker
    Location:
    North east England
    Harry with respect a ADR takes forever.
    And agree a chargeback should be the last option, but with so many casinos literally doing as they please, then if a player has truly been out done from there own hard earned money they are entitled to that back.
    As said before, you buy a product, for example I'll say a tv, a 50 inch tv, when you get that product delivered and it's a 40 inch tv, would you not want what you paid for for or a refund of your money if they can't provide this?...
     
  32. May 11, 2017
  33. winston

    winston Newbie member

    Location:
    uk
    Thanks for your post Harry :)
    Not at all. According to casino I SE'd 4 years ago. In that time I've moved house and happen to use a different email address. Fed up of constant spam on old one.

    I totally accept losing is part of gambling as much as winning is (within a fair framework/conditions. I just think in this instance there's a large degree of unfairness.
     
  34. May 11, 2017
  35. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Those are the regulations according to the UKGC: You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  36. May 11, 2017
  37. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    I assume your name, surname and birthday to be the same on both accounts. That should have raised flags at their end which seem to have failed. Different physical and email address is normal.

    My recommendation is to contact support and ask for the ADR details. If they decline, than you can report them to the UKGC for failing to provide an ADR. Keep a copy of all communications, screenshot whatever you can with date and time.

    It might take longer to get your money back, depending on who the ADR is, but at least your are playing it by the book.
     
  38. May 11, 2017
  39. Playford7

    Playford7 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Offshore worker
    Location:
    North east England
    Harry this is madness. The ADR service can take months as you know.
    Contacting the UKGC is like a comical joke (no offence intended)
    If the casino refuses to help the player then by all means that player should charge them back every single penny.
    I cannot see a issue.
     

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