Question for online Casinos reps/mngrs

babs7262

Banned User
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Location
PA
I'm curious and was wondering if you could shed some light on this topic for me. I want online casino people that really know how their casino does it


What makes a high roller at your casino? There could be many aspects to this question. I dont feel it's as obvious as you may think. For instance, it could be any or all of the following:

1. Someone who makes a huge deposit everytime they play but not often
2. Someone who makes several small ones consistantly
3. Someone who doesnt make huge deposits but does high spins on a constant basis (no spins lower than $5-$10)
4. Someone who low rolls (.20-$1 spins) BUT when they get ahead they bet higher and deposit on a daily basis

I think there are alot of things that would make a high roller. Im not talking about a "whale" that's a different story. I also want to know what you consider a loyal customer, meaning, how long does one have to patronage your casino on a daily basis to be considered loyal/long time

THanks for your input. I dont recall it ever being brought up and I am curious because It must work different than B&M's considering you can't offer a free room or meals or shows.
 

bb28

Dormant Account
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Location
US
Great question......Babs!

I hope they take the time to provide some answers. ;)
 

Fleur-De-Lis

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Location
CY
I was under impression that high-rollers are same folks as 'VIP' - i.e. those who deposits huge, and bet 300-500 at a time ;)

P.S. I tried to play/bet this way in KS, hoping to be 'promoted' to VIP, but still remained at an 'amateur' level
 

dazlazz

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Location
London, UK
Hi Babs, good question, I notice not soo many replys from the casino 'reps'.

Definition of high roller - as a general rule, use the casino comp point system as a basis.

Wagering 1,000 on a game like BJ (Comp factor is 0.1) you get 100 points, this converts to 1. Wager 10,000 = 10.

Obviously different comp factors per game - slots / keno being highest.

As a rule a player who reaches 100 in converted comp cash is regarded as a VIP / high roller - then you have the different VIP treatment applied.

Mutliple / frequent deposits i.e. more than 3 a month = player will get preferential treatment - 'retention' player.

If you want to PM me, I can advise a casino which is not well known and can cater for pure casino play /no deposit bonus, just pure play, you win, you withdraw, no questions etc, rather than the usual small minded play which I usually see.

Best regards and happy mother's day,

Dazzla
 

TDTAT

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Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Location
Gambleville
The big thing with becoming a "VIP" player
is that it varies greatly from casino to casino, as do VIP levels and such.

I will use Rival as an example in my case.
I have deposited $10,000-$20,000 at one of the older Rivals
for over a year and I am not a VIP there.
I made 2 or 3 $25 deposits at SimonSays, then went on tilt a few days
ago and lost $350 in one day there. The next day,
here comes the VIP freebies and bonus from SimonSays.

I think to answer your question.. VIP and or Highroller
status is a combination of depositing, betting patterns
and maybe even the win/loss ratio and changes for each casino.

I do not think many casino reps will be posting here
as I have found casinos are not very willing to give
up the "qualifaction lists" for VIP/highroller status.
I have asked many casinos as a player and they will not say.
I get similar evasive answeres when I ask as an affiliate.:lolup:


For lowrollers who want VIP status: SimonSays, Sloto'Cash
and now Davinci's (new VIP level system) have easier qualifications
for VIP than many casinos. Microgaming casinos can be tougher
to attain the "VIP" status... I think I recall being a VIP at one
or 2 playtechs back in the day too.

**Some of my LOW ROLLER players report being made a VIP at some
Rivals after asking by email.. I remember one is SimonSays**
 
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RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
A lot of casinos base this status on what they call your "Theoretical Win"

Most casinos use a mathematical formula to calculate how much in comps a player should receive. They take the amount of money risked multiplied by the casinos edge multiplied by the comp percentage.

Hosts often though provide much stronger discretionary comps -- including RFB on decent play and some will base this on your past play also at their casino...
 

TDTAT

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Location
Gambleville
I think the main thing to remember is that
whatever the qualifications, they vary GREATLY from casino to casino...

Obviously the older, well established casinos, will have stricter qualifications.
Casinos that have us by the balls do not need to give anyone VIP status,
except the serious high rollers.

suggestion to loyal lowrollers: email the casinos
and ask for VIP status or if you ever have a shot to
make it. Many times a kind manager can help more
than thousands in deposits. :thumbsup:
 

babs7262

Banned User
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Location
PA
Actually, (just MPO)

VIP is different from a high roller in many casinos. For instance, I am considered "VIP" at 3 dice because they only require a $50 a month deposit to play the VIP tourneys and I deposit more than that but am a low roller to most in here, BUT, Im not a high roller in their casino so there is difference between VIP and High Roller. There are also premium players, preferred players etc....but they may not be "high rollers" either.

Thats why I am curious. Yes, Ive noticed that noone is replying from any casinos lol. I guess it will remain a mystery!


BTW.....I dont have kids but thank you way in advance anyway Daz!
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
Actually, (just MPO)

VIP is different from a high roller in many casinos. For instance, I am considered "VIP" at 3 dice because they only require a $50 a month deposit to play the VIP tourneys and I deposit more than that but am a low roller to most in here, BUT, Im not a high roller in their casino so there is difference between VIP and High Roller. There are also premium players, preferred players etc....but they may not be "high rollers" either.

Thats why I am curious. Yes, Ive noticed that noone is replying from any casinos lol. I guess it will remain a mystery!


BTW.....I dont have kids but thank you way in advance anyway Daz!


Harrah's Casinos also have four different levels of player status which reminded me babs since you mentioned VIP...VIP has become more of a loosely phrased meaning nowadays than what it used to stand for...eg:

At Harrah's:

Gold Card = Player
Platinum Card = VIP Player
Diamond Card = High Roller
Seven Stars Card = Whale = Nashvegas...:D
 

thisisvegas

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Location
Canada
nobody going to help or answer?

I will break it down into my terms to help clarify which does answer your main questions. To me there are high rollers and there are VIP players or rather loyal players. A high roller to me is someone who bets really big but it doesn't always guarantee they will be a VIP but usually they are just from the amount wagered alone. I think most people have a perception that the casino wants to go after "whales" but I can tell you that isn't always the case and things are more complex than that. To me a VIP is someone who wagers a lot regardless of the size of their deposit and regardless if they win or lose*. Yes I put a star there because Rival isn't very friendly towards bonus hunters and if we see activity like that we do prevent them from getting bonuses. But I do have players who have won money at the casino who still get bonuses and are put on the VIP list.

Now back to the question at hand, the casino gives you a chance to win and just because someone got lucky at the casino and is a winning player or even won big doesn't mean we can't reward them for their loyalty as a player.

As for my criteria, I would like to not list my own criteria for a few reasons but one of those reasons is that I just can't treat all players the same. The example being a player who has won $1000 versus one who lost $1000. If they do the same wagering then why should I exclude the winning player because of it? So I do have an automatic system in place but it isn't perfect so I do take the time to look at players on a daily basis and sometimes I give them a bonus of some sort or upgrade them to VIP. I also understand not all casinos will have or share the same policies.

John
ps I'll be gone for half the day but will check up on this later tonight.
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
MERS
Harrah's Casinos also have four different levels of player status which reminded me babs since you mentioned VIP...VIP has become more of a loosely phrased meaning nowadays than what it used to stand for...eg:

At Harrah's:

Gold Card = Player
Platinum Card = VIP Player
Diamond Card = High Roller
Seven Stars Card = Whale = Nashvegas...:D
Two statements as Rob and I have briefly discussed before:
1.BandM's perks,comps,whatever versus onlines are not even comparable. It is apples and oranges. Of course, there are reasons for these major differences some logical and some not (affiliates, I dunno!). The only act by an online that I could even compare to a BandM was 3 Dice's bottle of Cristal sent to me even though I have/had major philosophical differences on gaming fairness with them. (Still a nice gesture!!). Yet every month I get $10K to $50k worth of various comps ranging from chips and/or vouchers for cash to exotic cruises, the Mario Andretti racing school,the SuperBowl (the actual game) and the one that I will always regret I did not attend was the invite to the Playboy Mansion and Party by The Palms! Add to those perks full RFB and airfare comps where many times I have stayed for multiple weeks or some might say overstayed my welcome without paying a dime!
2.The above said and whether it is Platinum or 7 Star for a BandM or whatever for an online (basically nothing imo) it is still 99% marketing via the human pyschology of a meaningless status label (YOU ARE A VIP,DIAMOND,ETC.) to induce your continual play of a negative expectation game.
 
Last edited:

GGW Laurie

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Location
In the Beautiful South !!
Two statements as Rob and I have briefly discussed before:
1.BandM's perks,comps,whatever versus onlines are not even comparable. It is apples and oranges. Of course, there are reasons for these major differences some logical and some not (affiliates, I dunno!). The only act by an online that I could even compare to a BandM was 3 Dice's bottle of Cristal sent to me even though I have/had major philosophical differences on gaming fairness with them. (Still a nice gesture!!). Yet every month I get $10K to $50k worth of various comps ranging from chips and/or vouchers for cash to exotic cruises, the Mario Andretti racing school,the SuperBowl (the actual game) and the one that I will always regret I did not attend was the invite to the Playboy Mansion by The Palms! Add to those perks full RFB and airfare comps where many times I have stayed for multiple weeks or some might say overstayed my welcome without paying a dime!
2.The above said and whether it is Platinum or 7 Star for a BandM or whatever for an online (basically nothing imo) it is still 99% marketing via the human pyschology of a meaningless status label (YOU ARE A VIP,DIAMOND,ETC.) to induce your continual play of a negative expectation game.
..............agree with you garry on that but imo your not just a whale you are the great white whale of tunica, i know, seen it with my own eyes and yes i did check your eyes too ( private joke lol)......laurie:)
 

babs7262

Banned User
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Location
PA
Thanks John

I appreciate you taking the time to write your thoughts. I kind of thought what you said. I wasnt looking for any answers for bonus reasons, I just wanted thoughts on what a high roller meant to a casino but you went even further for us and I thank you for that.

My family think I gamble all of this money in Atlantic City just because they give me 2 nights a week free at the Trop with free show tickets and money in my account and food vouchers but I dont. I asked my host (yes, i even have a host) because I was confused myself and she said that they value people like me (I only lost $2,000 for the whole year of 2007 and only $1,000 for 2006)just as much as high rollers because of my loyalty. She said because I use my card, they know what time I gamble and they can tell that I don't go to other casinos while getting my free room there which is also important to them. She is right, I dont play anywhere else, I might go for a walk and put $10 in a machine but I dont consider that gaming elsewhere.

That's why I am asking online casinos because you really dont know how loyal the player is considering that they are at home and although they might spend alot at your place doesnt mean they arnt somewhere else as well. What Im getting at is Im guessing it's all about a dollar amount and Im wondering what that dollar amount is per month to be considered a high roller.
I can really understand why a casino wouldnt want to answer this question but I wanted to take a shot in the dark anyway LOL
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
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Location
MERS
A whale, you saw....are you telling me I need to go on a diet???:D:p:D
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
Two statements as Rob and I have briefly discussed before:
1.BandM's perks,comps,whatever versus onlines are not even comparable. It is apples and oranges. Of course, there are reasons for these major differences some logical and some not (affiliates, I dunno!). The only act by an online that I could even compare to a BandM was 3 Dice's bottle of Cristal sent to me even though I have/had major philosophical differences on gaming fairness with them. (Still a nice gesture!!). Yet every month I get $10K to $50k worth of various comps ranging from chips and/or vouchers for cash to exotic cruises, the Mario Andretti racing school,the SuperBowl (the actual game) and the one that I will always regret I did not attend was the invite to the Playboy Mansion and Party by The Palms! Add to those perks full RFB and airfare comps where many times I have stayed for multiple weeks or some might say overstayed my welcome without paying a dime!
2.The above said and whether it is Platinum or 7 Star for a BandM or whatever for an online (basically nothing imo) it is still 99% marketing via the human pyschology of a meaningless status label (YOU ARE A VIP,DIAMOND,ETC.) to induce your continual play of a negative expectation game.

Nash, were you drunk... :D...what the hell were you thinking man ? You passed up on going to the Mansion...:eek2:
 

GGW Laurie

Dormant Account
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
In the Beautiful South !!
A whale, you saw....are you telling me I need to go on a diet???:D:p:D
..nope your a fine looking man:D ill call ya later got crap to tell ya may have stepped on my, well i dont have one of those:D back to the topic i consider myself to be v.i.p at some b/m casinos and the perks are alot better when you do go up the scale.i used to be a v.i.p at other online casinos that we cant play at now and did i get some nice things." oh i miss the good ole days".....laurie
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
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Location
MERS
Nash, were you drunk... :D...what the hell were you thinking man ? You passed up on going to the Mansion...:eek2:
The Playboy invite was for mid March of 2006 and at that time I was a witness for the defense in one of the 3 trials of Nashville's most infamous murder case ever (case and the murder trial made all the shows like Court TV,Nancy Grace,48 Hours,etc.) where the trial I testified in started in early April 2006 so I had scheduled meetings with the DA that I felt I should not cancel so there you have it....I did frame the invite (actually a woman I have dated off and on had it framed as a gift) and I posted a screenie I think iirc in a thread about Playboy (maybe casino) and whether porn or not. Simmo may have started the thread with a poll,haha, iirc.
 

Alexandre

Experienced Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2006
Location
Barcelona, Spain
1. Someone who makes a huge deposit everytime they play but not often
2. Someone who makes several small ones consistantly
3. Someone who doesnt make huge deposits but does high spins on a constant basis (no spins lower than $5-$10)
4. Someone who low rolls (.20-$1 spins) BUT when they get ahead they bet higher and deposit on a daily basis.

You forgot this category of players:
5. Someone who make huge deposit constantly, does high spins on a constant basis and don't withdraw his winnings
:laugh:

The only act by an online that I could even compare to a BandM was 3 Dice's bottle of Cristal sent to me even though I have/had major philosophical differences on gaming fairness with them.

In 2006, the day after a nice win on slots (around 12K), Casino Solera sent me a Partagas D1 box and a Remy Martin cognac bottle.
That was before I start working for them.
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
MERS
You forgot this category of players:
5. Someone who make huge deposit constantly, does high spins on a constant basis and don't withdraw his winnings
:laugh:



In 2006, the day after a nice win on slots (around 12K€), Casino Solera sent me a Partagas D1 box and a Remy Martin cognac bottle.
That was before I start working for them
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/there-is-something-i-thought-you-should-know.20039/.
Congrats on your win in 2006 and it sounds as if you are employed by a classy online casino......any thoughts why some casinos like Intertops mail a $5 voucher for Christmas,WTF? I prefer nothing and it is not the thought that counts imo. My shredder is not that hungry and this is not about humility also imo!!
 

babs7262

Banned User
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Location
PA
Hey Nash

Was that the Perry March Trial, the guy that killed his wife but couldnt find the body and it took 10 yrs to go to trial. If Im correct he stole his FIL's firm and killed or tried to kill the wife's parents?
 

NASHVEGAS

Banned User - flamming, disrespecting admin,
Joined
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Location
MERS
Hey Nash

Was that the Perry March Trial, the guy that killed his wife but couldnt find the body and it took 10 yrs to go to trial. If Im correct he stole his FIL's firm and killed or tried to kill the wife's parents?
Yes and I grew up with Janet!......Perry was doing some legal work for me at the time in 1996.....I gave a voluntary 9 page police statement once Perry immediately became a suspect in 1996.
 

babs7262

Banned User
Joined
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Location
PA
OMG

That is horrible. I sure hope you werent the witness that saw the oriental rug in the house. Im so sorry you had to go through that. It must of been a long drawn out stressful thing to go through
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
nobody going to help or answer?

I will break it down into my terms to help clarify which does answer your main questions. To me there are high rollers and there are VIP players or rather loyal players. A high roller to me is someone who bets really big but it doesn't always guarantee they will be a VIP but usually they are just from the amount wagered alone. I think most people have a perception that the casino wants to go after "whales" but I can tell you that isn't always the case and things are more complex than that. To me a VIP is someone who wagers a lot regardless of the size of their deposit and regardless if they win or lose*. Yes I put a star there because Rival isn't very friendly towards bonus hunters and if we see activity like that we do prevent them from getting bonuses. But I do have players who have won money at the casino who still get bonuses and are put on the VIP list.

Now back to the question at hand, the casino gives you a chance to win and just because someone got lucky at the casino and is a winning player or even won big doesn't mean we can't reward them for their loyalty as a player.

As for my criteria, I would like to not list my own criteria for a few reasons but one of those reasons is that I just can't treat all players the same. The example being a player who has won $1000 versus one who lost $1000. If they do the same wagering then why should I exclude the winning player because of it? So I do have an automatic system in place but it isn't perfect so I do take the time to look at players on a daily basis and sometimes I give them a bonus of some sort or upgrade them to VIP. I also understand not all casinos will have or share the same policies.

John
ps I'll be gone for half the day but will check up on this later tonight.

Another reason would be that "bonus players" would do the maths, create a system to manipulate the system to reach VIP level, and then give the VIP bonuses a bl**dy good hiding:D

Casinos that DO list criteria, generally use the number of comp points earned over a period, usually a month, and then set rules for both advancing, and maintaining, the various levels. It is harder to manipulate such systems as they are based purely on playthrough, and not other activities where the system can be fooled by certain combinations of deposits, play, and withdrawal.
Another criteria used online is length of time with a casino. Most will only begin to look at players who have been with them a while, usually 3 months onwards. This enables them to have enough data to minimise the risk that it is a clever player attempting to fool their way to perceived VIP bonuses, or a player who has a very sporadic playing pattern, which might indicate they play at MANY places.

Casino Action (Deceased), used to have a VIP system that had no published criteria, however it was fully automated, and I was quickly able to derive a rough formula for hitting Platinum in months 3 to 4. This was highly relevant, as the redemtion rate for comps was 4x at Platinum, and rapid progress while NOT redeeming points meant they increased in value x4.
The NEW system also had a manipulator, but as they had invited me to vegas, I told Vinoka how it was done, and demonstrated it:D They fixed it;) *


* To be more precise, they fixed it such that it only worked on Fridays:D
 
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